This is the story of a long saga with a mixed outcome, so make
yourselves a coffee or a strong one and settle in...

We have two 24" flat CRT(conventional) TVs in our home - a Sony
KV24-S120 and a Toshiba 24AF-43. They aren't huge but they have given
very good presentations, esp. for movies.

Three months ago I purchased AVIA Guide to Home Theater and performed
the "Basic 5"(Contrast, Brightness, Color etc) calibration on both,
using the included filters. Both sets reaped much improvement from this
simple procedure, and I was quite satisfied. There were times when I
swore the picture on both sets was 3-dimensional in quality! I also
made avail of AVIA's geometry and overscan patterns, and also adjusted
the flyback Focus control on each set - resulting in razor sharp edges
to subjects with a much lower sharpness control setting than I ever
imagined.

Last week I learned of some professional calibrators - ISF I think, who
discussed a way to perform the same calibration, with AVIA or either
Video Essentials or Digital V.E, through the "hidden" service menus.
The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc). I thought this might
be a good idea because on both sets I thought the component input
seemed a little pinkish compared to the composite(RCA) and RF/cable
inputs, even after all the calibrations. I thought that doing it
through service menus would help *balance* out the image from input to
input.

Well, how were my results?? The Sony KV24~ ended up slightly redder,
and the Toshiba 24AF~ acquired a bright bluish "glare" for lack of
better words. Sure, I saw no difference when viewing a movie either
through ch. 3, Video 1 or 2, or Component, but something just wasn't
right.

After a few days, I decided I'd had enough. I returned all service menu
items on both sets relating to color and tint back to their factory
positions. I then reperformed the AVIA calibration utilizing the user
controls, and got the same settings results as I did 3 months ago with
both sets. The Sony in particular is right on track.

Now here's the quandary: The Toshiba still has that "Xenon headlight"
glare, especially with outdoor scenes and with light-colored clothing.
The effect was particularly glaring when I performed the following
experiment:

I took photos of both the Sony and the Toshiba playing a B&W oldie
movie on Turner Classics. Analyzing the two, I could not get over how
"blue" and overly bright the Toshiba's image was compared to the almost
warm Sony black & white.

I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set. I would appreciate any suggestions you folks have with regards to
my Toshiba, as that is the living room - Read: Home Theater - center
piece. Going into those service menus did *something* to that picture,
I just don't know for the life of me what.

Your thoughts/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

ChrisCoaster wrote:
snip


Now here's the quandary: The Toshiba still has that "Xenon headlight"
glare, especially with outdoor scenes and with light-colored clothing.
The effect was particularly glaring when I performed the following
experiment:

I took photos of both the Sony and the Toshiba playing a B&W oldie
movie on Turner Classics. Analyzing the two, I could not get over how
"blue" and overly bright the Toshiba's image was compared to the almost
warm Sony black & white.

I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set. I would appreciate any suggestions you folks have with regards to
my Toshiba, as that is the living room - Read: Home Theater - center
piece. Going into those service menus did *something* to that picture,
I just don't know for the life of me what.

Your thoughts/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

I assume you performed all these calibrations with the sets having run
for at least 30 minutes? components drift slightly in value as they
warm up and the crt also needs time to reach it's optimum performance.
you may also want to check components like capacitors in the rgb path
and perhaps the sets' b+ line (especially if there seems to be poor
regulation on bright scenes).

remember that with any equipment, all tweaking is simply a compromise:
recognize that you may never get a 'perfect' picture or colour
balance and try to live with what you have or you'll probably end up
going mad!
B.

At some point you may have adjusted the G2 control when you thought you were
adjusting the focus on the flyback. Either that or you adjusted some
setting in the service menu that you did not set back correctly.

Leonard

"ChrisCoaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is the story of a long saga with a mixed outcome, so make
yourselves a coffee or a strong one and settle in...

We have two 24" flat CRT(conventional) TVs in our home - a Sony
KV24-S120 and a Toshiba 24AF-43. They aren't huge but they have given
very good presentations, esp. for movies.

Three months ago I purchased AVIA Guide to Home Theater and performed
the "Basic 5"(Contrast, Brightness, Color etc) calibration on both,
using the included filters. Both sets reaped much improvement from this
simple procedure, and I was quite satisfied. There were times when I
swore the picture on both sets was 3-dimensional in quality! I also
made avail of AVIA's geometry and overscan patterns, and also adjusted
the flyback Focus control on each set - resulting in razor sharp edges
to subjects with a much lower sharpness control setting than I ever
imagined.

Last week I learned of some professional calibrators - ISF I think, who
discussed a way to perform the same calibration, with AVIA or either
Video Essentials or Digital V.E, through the "hidden" service menus.
The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc). I thought this might
be a good idea because on both sets I thought the component input
seemed a little pinkish compared to the composite(RCA) and RF/cable
inputs, even after all the calibrations. I thought that doing it
through service menus would help *balance* out the image from input to
input.

Well, how were my results?? The Sony KV24~ ended up slightly redder,
and the Toshiba 24AF~ acquired a bright bluish "glare" for lack of
better words. Sure, I saw no difference when viewing a movie either
through ch. 3, Video 1 or 2, or Component, but something just wasn't
right.

After a few days, I decided I'd had enough. I returned all service menu
items on both sets relating to color and tint back to their factory
positions. I then reperformed the AVIA calibration utilizing the user
controls, and got the same settings results as I did 3 months ago with
both sets. The Sony in particular is right on track.

Now here's the quandary: The Toshiba still has that "Xenon headlight"
glare, especially with outdoor scenes and with light-colored clothing.
The effect was particularly glaring when I performed the following
experiment:

I took photos of both the Sony and the Toshiba playing a B&W oldie
movie on Turner Classics. Analyzing the two, I could not get over how
"blue" and overly bright the Toshiba's image was compared to the almost
warm Sony black & white.

I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set. I would appreciate any suggestions you folks have with regards to
my Toshiba, as that is the living room - Read: Home Theater - center
piece. Going into those service menus did *something* to that picture,
I just don't know for the life of me what.

Your thoughts/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

On 6 Apr 2006 03:56:02 -0700, "ChrisCoaster"
wrote:

This is the story of a long saga with a mixed outcome, so make
yourselves a coffee or a strong one and settle in...

We have two 24" flat CRT(conventional) TVs in our home - a Sony
KV24-S120 and a Toshiba 24AF-43. They aren't huge but they have given
very good presentations, esp. for movies.

Three months ago I purchased AVIA Guide to Home Theater and performed
the "Basic 5"(Contrast, Brightness, Color etc) calibration on both,
using the included filters. Both sets reaped much improvement from this
simple procedure, and I was quite satisfied. There were times when I
swore the picture on both sets was 3-dimensional in quality! I also
made avail of AVIA's geometry and overscan patterns, and also adjusted
the flyback Focus control on each set - resulting in razor sharp edges
to subjects with a much lower sharpness control setting than I ever
imagined.

Last week I learned of some professional calibrators - ISF I think, who
discussed a way to perform the same calibration, with AVIA or either
Video Essentials or Digital V.E, through the "hidden" service menus.
The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc). I thought this might
be a good idea because on both sets I thought the component input
seemed a little pinkish compared to the composite(RCA) and RF/cable
inputs, even after all the calibrations. I thought that doing it
through service menus would help *balance* out the image from input to
input.

Well, how were my results?? The Sony KV24~ ended up slightly redder,
and the Toshiba 24AF~ acquired a bright bluish "glare" for lack of
better words. Sure, I saw no difference when viewing a movie either
through ch. 3, Video 1 or 2, or Component, but something just wasn't
right.

After a few days, I decided I'd had enough. I returned all service menu
items on both sets relating to color and tint back to their factory
positions. I then reperformed the AVIA calibration utilizing the user
controls, and got the same settings results as I did 3 months ago with
both sets. The Sony in particular is right on track.

Now here's the quandary: The Toshiba still has that "Xenon headlight"
glare, especially with outdoor scenes and with light-colored clothing.
The effect was particularly glaring when I performed the following
experiment:

Can you get your hands on a colorimeter to set your white level/colour
temperature?

Tom


I took photos of both the Sony and the Toshiba playing a B&W oldie
movie on Turner Classics. Analyzing the two, I could not get over how
"blue" and overly bright the Toshiba's image was compared to the almost
warm Sony black & white.

I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set. I would appreciate any suggestions you folks have with regards to
my Toshiba, as that is the living room - Read: Home Theater - center
piece. Going into those service menus did *something* to that picture,
I just don't know for the life of me what.

Your thoughts/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

Time for a Professional to get into your sets after you FUBARD then, Eh??
Call an authorized service for the set, tell them what you have done, and
ask for an estimate to readjust them to factory specifications.
If you are going to screw with the service menus at least write down the
flipping parameter values before changing any of them. That way you, or a
tech, will at least have half a chance at setting it back to original.
"Tom MacIntyre" wrote in message
...
On 6 Apr 2006 03:56:02 -0700, "ChrisCoaster"
wrote:

This is the story of a long saga with a mixed outcome, so make
yourselves a coffee or a strong one and settle in...

We have two 24" flat CRT(conventional) TVs in our home - a Sony
KV24-S120 and a Toshiba 24AF-43. They aren't huge but they have given
very good presentations, esp. for movies.

Three months ago I purchased AVIA Guide to Home Theater and performed
the "Basic 5"(Contrast, Brightness, Color etc) calibration on both,
using the included filters. Both sets reaped much improvement from this
simple procedure, and I was quite satisfied. There were times when I
swore the picture on both sets was 3-dimensional in quality! I also
made avail of AVIA's geometry and overscan patterns, and also adjusted
the flyback Focus control on each set - resulting in razor sharp edges
to subjects with a much lower sharpness control setting than I ever
imagined.

Last week I learned of some professional calibrators - ISF I think, who
discussed a way to perform the same calibration, with AVIA or either
Video Essentials or Digital V.E, through the "hidden" service menus.
The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc). I thought this might
be a good idea because on both sets I thought the component input
seemed a little pinkish compared to the composite(RCA) and RF/cable
inputs, even after all the calibrations. I thought that doing it
through service menus would help *balance* out the image from input to
input.

Well, how were my results?? The Sony KV24~ ended up slightly redder,
and the Toshiba 24AF~ acquired a bright bluish "glare" for lack of
better words. Sure, I saw no difference when viewing a movie either
through ch. 3, Video 1 or 2, or Component, but something just wasn't
right.

After a few days, I decided I'd had enough. I returned all service menu
items on both sets relating to color and tint back to their factory
positions. I then reperformed the AVIA calibration utilizing the user
controls, and got the same settings results as I did 3 months ago with
both sets. The Sony in particular is right on track.

Now here's the quandary: The Toshiba still has that "Xenon headlight"
glare, especially with outdoor scenes and with light-colored clothing.
The effect was particularly glaring when I performed the following
experiment:

Can you get your hands on a colorimeter to set your white level/colour
temperature?

Tom


I took photos of both the Sony and the Toshiba playing a B&W oldie
movie on Turner Classics. Analyzing the two, I could not get over how
"blue" and overly bright the Toshiba's image was compared to the almost
warm Sony black & white.

I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set. I would appreciate any suggestions you folks have with regards to
my Toshiba, as that is the living room - Read: Home Theater - center
piece. Going into those service menus did *something* to that picture,
I just don't know for the life of me what.

Your thoughts/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

I thought he covered that when he wrote:

The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc).
....
I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set.

So while your suggestion was probably intended to be helpful,
you should have read the post more thoroughly.


Art wrote:
Time for a Professional to get into your sets after you FUBARD then, Eh??
Call an authorized service for the set, tell them what you have done, and
ask for an estimate to readjust them to factory specifications.
If you are going to screw with the service menus at least write down the
flipping parameter values before changing any of them. That way you, or a
tech, will at least have half a chance at setting it back to original.
"Tom MacIntyre" wrote in message
...

Seen way to many customer screwed sets as a result of inexperience in
dealing with the service only menues. Just a bit of information that I hope
more than just you read and understand!! IMHO; Cheers
"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I thought he covered that when he wrote:

The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc).
...
I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set.

So while your suggestion was probably intended to be helpful,
you should have read the post more thoroughly.


Art wrote:
Time for a Professional to get into your sets after you FUBARD then, Eh??
Call an authorized service for the set, tell them what you have done, and
ask for an estimate to readjust them to factory specifications.
If you are going to screw with the service menus at least write down the
flipping parameter values before changing any of them. That way you, or a
tech, will at least have half a chance at setting it back to original.
"Tom MacIntyre" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 21:30:56 -0400, "Art"
wrote:

Seen way to many customer screwed sets as a result of inexperience in
dealing with the service only menues. Just a bit of information that I hope
more than just you read and understand!! IMHO; Cheers

The biggest problem is, I think, that a written explanation cannot
possibly explain what you'll see when you perform the various
adjustments for video quality. No matter how many things are provided
to make it easier (pluge and SMPTE bars, for example), it is still not
something that will be perfect for most people on a first try.

Then there's convergence... :-)

Tom

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I thought he covered that when he wrote:

The procedure seemed simple - Center all 5 user controls, then crack
into the service menu. Then, perform the DVD calibration PER INPUT if
available. And as always, write down the before/after values of all
service menu items changed(subcolor, subhue, etc).
...
I will leave you all with the following: All
color/brightness/contrast/tint settings in service mode are back to
factory default. No cutoff/bias or drive/gains were adjusted on either
set.

So while your suggestion was probably intended to be helpful,
you should have read the post more thoroughly.


Art wrote:
Time for a Professional to get into your sets after you FUBARD then, Eh??
Call an authorized service for the set, tell them what you have done, and
ask for an estimate to readjust them to factory specifications.
If you are going to screw with the service menus at least write down the
flipping parameter values before changing any of them. That way you, or a
tech, will at least have half a chance at setting it back to original.
"Tom MacIntyre" wrote in message
...