hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

wrote:

hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

Good luck.


OD

Which clean room will you be using ?

wrote in message
oups.com...
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

wrote in message
oups.com...
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

The HD may contain very powerful magnets which can be fun to experiment
with. As the others have commented, little else will likely come from your
work.

--
Remove -NOSPAM- to contact me.

In article .com,
wrote:
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..



http://ontrack.com/ plus a credit card with a decent balance.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage wrote:
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

Don't. Unless you just want to have a look and breaking anything
does not matter. In the second case I advise to use a screwdriver....

Arno

wrote:
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..



In a nutshell, forget it.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:31 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to fail),
but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours to a few
days after being opened up providing you're careful about the environment
in which it's done. That's long enough to recover data off the drive (but
forget using the drive long term obviously is heads *will* crash
eventually)

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup? (and
periodically during use to minimise the effects of temperature changes).
I'd assume that track zero is found electronically, rather than being
dictated by any mechnical resting place of the head assembly.

Head height is doubtless very critical though (even with flying heads) and
for that you would need a lab to set up properly.

There's also the problem of how to physically remove the head stack from
the donor drive - those magnets are *strong* and likely something would
get damaged in the process of removing the head assembly...

cheers

Jules

wrote:
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

How do you know the problem is with the heads?

Rotflol. You a rocket scientist, right?

"Jules" wrote in message news
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:31 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to fail),
but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours to a few days

Ah, you do this all the time.

after being opened up providing you're careful about the environment
in which it's done. That's long enough to recover data off the drive (but
forget using the drive long term

obviously

'obviously'

its heads

You sure it's the heads and not the platters?

*will*

as in God's *will* or did you make deal with the devil?

crash eventually)

Or die of old age.


2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Ah yeah, those little servo motors adjusting them mechanically at startup.

(and periodically during use to minimise the effects of temperature changes).

I'd assume that track zero is found electronically, rather than being
dictated by any mechnical resting place of the head assembly.

Lets hope so as they are as far apart as they can be on the platter.


Head height is doubtless very critical though

(even with flying heads)

No kidding.

and for that you would need a lab to set up properly.

Yeah, better start saving for that automatic laser guided
adjusting rig.
And for that laser guided robot that applies it back
into the drive without upsetting 'the adjustment'.


There's also the problem of how to physically remove the head stack

from the donor drive -

Yeah, it is 'obviously' much easier to remove them from the bad drive
and restoring them to the bad drive is 'obviously' a doddle too.

those magnets are *strong*

Especially those that apply the downforce to the heads and in need of micro 'adjustment'.

and likely something would get damaged in the process of removing the head assembly...

Your pride obviously if it sticks to your screwdriver while the heads are
still on the platters, making a Karel Appel impression on the platters.


cheers

Jules

Jules wrote
Rod Speed wrote
kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to fail),

It will, you watch.

but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours
to a few days after being opened up providing you're careful
about the environment in which it's done. That's long enough
to recover data off the drive (but forget using the drive long
term obviously is heads *will* crash eventually)

Not many drives fail in a way that needs the heads
replaced without gouging up the media in the process.

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't
modern drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Depends on what you do about the platters. If you remove and
replace them, you have buckleys of getting them back the way
they were before you removed them as far as the eccentricity
of the tracks is concerned, because the tracks were written
on the platters after the platters were installed in the drive.

(and periodically during use to minimise the effects of temperature
changes). I'd assume that track zero is found electronically, rather than
being dictated by any mechnical resting place of the head assembly.

Bad assumption. There's a reason you can hear a drive recalibrating.

Head height is doubtless very critical though (even with flying heads)

Especially with flying heads.

and for that you would need a lab to set up properly.

Not necessarily, quite a bit of that comes from the design of the heads.

There's also the problem of how to physically remove the head stack
from the donor drive - those magnets are *strong* and likely something
would get damaged in the process of removing the head assembly...

You dont need to remove them.

The main problem is that many drives need to have the platters
removed to get the heads removed and you have buckleys of
getting them back the way they were before they were removed.

And most drives that need new heads have gouged up
the media in the process of the original heads failing.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:22:27 +0100, Folkert Rienstra wrote:

Rotflol. You a rocket scientist, right?

"Jules" wrote in message news
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:31 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to fail),
but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours to a few days

Ah, you do this all the time.

No, usually once a month or so in order to recover data from drives with
sealed spindle motors that are suffering from stiction or bearing
problems. I just tend to leave them running once I've got everything off
just out of curiousity to see how long they'll last before they go crunch.


2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Ah yeah, those little servo motors adjusting them mechanically at
startup.

Umm, what servo motors? Long time since any hard disk used them...

Ahh, gotta love the trolls...

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 05:33:28 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
Not many drives fail in a way that needs the heads
replaced without gouging up the media in the process.

No, there is that - I'd assume that the OP has a good reason for wanting
to swap head assembly (i.e. they've ruled out that the problem isn't with
the logic board in the drive)

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Depends on what you do about the platters. If you remove and replace
them, you have buckleys of getting them back the way they were before
you removed them as far as the eccentricity of the tracks is concerned,
because the tracks were written on the platters after the platters were
installed in the drive.

Absolutely - I'd assume they OP has a drive where they could technically
get the heads out without disturbing platters, otherwise things are
guaranteed to go horribly wrong

(and periodically during use to minimise the effects of temperature
changes). I'd assume that track zero is found electronically, rather
than being dictated by any mechnical resting place of the head
assembly.

Bad assumption. There's a reason you can hear a drive recalibrating.

I don't know - most hard disk manuals seem to say that they'll do periodic
recalibration (or at least ones for high end SCSI drives do)

The main problem is that many drives need to have the platters removed
to get the heads removed and you have buckleys of getting them back the
way they were before they were removed.

heh heh, for sure - and I can't see there's any chance of getting the
platter stack apart and being able to put it back together again in order
to read existing data off! :-)

If heads will come out without touching the platters then maybe the OP
should give it a go if they have a spare donor drive lined up - they can't
be any worse off. I've never heard of anyone actually trying this though
(let alone trying it and it working!

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:22:27 +0100, Folkert Rienstra wrote:

Rotflol. You a rocket scientist, right?

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:31 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to
fail), but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours to a
few days

Ah, you do this all the time.

No, usually once a month or so in order to recover data from drives
with sealed spindle motors that are suffering from stiction or bearing
problems. I just tend to leave them running once I've got everything
off just out of curiousity to see how long they'll last before they
go crunch.

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't
modern drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Ah yeah, those little servo motors adjusting them mechanically at
startup.

Umm, what servo motors? Long time since any hard disk used them...

You're thinking of stepper motors.

Ahh, gotta love the trolls...

Jules wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Not many drives fail in a way that needs the heads
replaced without gouging up the media in the process.

No, there is that - I'd assume that the OP has a good reason
for wanting to swap head assembly (i.e. they've ruled out that
the problem isn't with the logic board in the drive)

Its more likely he assumed the heads are
the problem but doesnt know that they are.

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't
modern drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Depends on what you do about the platters. If you remove and
replace them, you have buckleys of getting them back the way
they were before you removed them as far as the eccentricity
of the tracks is concerned, because the tracks were written
on the platters after the platters were installed in the drive.

Absolutely - I'd assume they OP has a drive where they
could technically get the heads out without disturbing platters,

You're doing a lot of assuming.

otherwise things are guaranteed to go horribly wrong

(and periodically during use to minimise the effects
of temperature changes). I'd assume that track zero
is found electronically, rather than being dictated by
any mechnical resting place of the head assembly.

Bad assumption. There's a reason you can hear a drive recalibrating.

I don't know - most hard disk manuals seem to say that they'll do
periodic recalibration (or at least ones for high end SCSI drives do)

Different matter entirely to the recalibration you can
hear when the drive cant read the platters properly.

The main problem is that many drives need to have the platters
removed to get the heads removed and you have buckleys of
getting them back the way they were before they were removed.

heh heh, for sure - and I can't see there's any chance of
getting the platter stack apart and being able to put it
back together again in order to read existing data off! :-)

If heads will come out without touching the platters then maybe
the OP should give it a go if they have a spare donor drive lined
up - they can't be any worse off. I've never heard of anyone
actually trying this though (let alone trying it and it working!

Yeah, because if the heads need replacing, they've
usually gouged up the media in the process of failing.

"Jules" wrote in message news
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 05:33:28 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
Not many drives fail in a way that needs the heads
replaced without gouging up the media in the process.

No, there is that - I'd assume that the OP has a good reason for wanting
to swap head assembly (i.e. they've ruled out that the problem isn't with
the logic board in the drive)

2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Depends on what you do about the platters. If you remove and replace
them, you have buckleys of getting them back the way they were before
you removed them as far as the eccentricity of the tracks is concerned,
because the tracks were written on the platters after the platters were
installed in the drive.

Absolutely - I'd assume they OP has a drive where they could technically
get the heads out without disturbing platters,

otherwise things are guaranteed to go horribly wrong

Say you, who admits to know no one who actually did it, including himself.


(and periodically during use to minimise the effects of temperature
changes). I'd assume that track zero is found electronically, rather
than being dictated by any mechnical resting place of the head
assembly.

Bad assumption.

There's a reason you can hear a drive recalibrating.

Yes, on bad sectors. The rest is just drive health checks during idle time.



I don't know - most hard disk manuals seem to say that they'll do periodic
recalibration (or at least ones for high end SCSI drives do)

I'll guess that IBM/Hitachi and Seagate don't make 'high end SCSI' drives
anymore then.


The main problem is that many drives need to have the platters removed
to get the heads removed and you have buckleys of getting them back the
way they were before they were removed.


heh heh, for sure - and I can't see

Well, that's _your_ problem.

there's any chance of getting the platter stack apart and being able
to put it back together again in order to read existing data off! :-)

As if you ever tried.


If heads will come out without touching the platters

Well, for that to happen it must have the heads parked at a parking rest,
obviously.

then maybe the OP should give it a go if they have a spare donor drive
lined up - they can't be any worse off.

Except for killing the donor drive without any gain.

I've never heard of anyone actually trying this though

So you haven't been around much, so what.

(let alone trying it and it working!

cheers

Jules

"Jules" wrote in message news
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:22:27 +0100, Folkert Rienstra wrote:
Rotflol. You a rocket scientist, right?
"Jules" wrote in message news
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:31 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
kip wrote

Which clean room will you be using ?

He's gunna need a hell of a lot more than a clean room.

Actually, it's an interesting experiment (and one I'd expect to fail),
but:

1) Drives will usually run for anything between a few hours to a few days

Ah, you do this all the time.

No, usually once a month or so in order to recover data from drives with
sealed spindle motors that are suffering from stiction or bearing
problems. I just tend to leave them running once I've got everything off
just out of curiousity to see how long they'll last before they go crunch.

After they already have gone crunch once before you got them.



2) I'm not sure how much of an issue radial alignment is - won't modern
drives handle the calibration automatically during startup?

Ah yeah, those little servo motors adjusting them mechanically at startup.

Umm, what servo motors? Long time since any hard disk used them...

And none ever used servo motors to adjust head alignment, you simpleton.


Ahh, gotta love the trolls...

Especially those that display their ignorance so fast and freely that
it is almost impossible not to make fun of them (i.e. ignore the bait).

Making you the troll, (in case you missed that too).

Ok thanks
the drive in question is an old quantum 5.1el so I suppose it has
1/possibly 2 heads and the arm can be rotated away from the platters
completely before pulling it out!? Now what about
aligning the magnets and sliding the 'new' arm over the platters...any
special tools etc.

Ok thanks
the drive in question is an old quantum 5.1el so I suppose it has
1/possibly 2 heads and the arm can be rotated away from the platters
completely before pulling it out!? Now what about
aligning the magnets and sliding the 'new' arm over the platters...any
special tools etc.

No, just a steady hand. Practise makes you perfect.

wrote

the drive in question is an old quantum 5.1el
so I suppose it has 1/possibly 2 heads

There's very few drives with just one head.

and the arm can be rotated away from the
platters completely before pulling it out!?

Usually not.

Now what about aligning the magnets

Doesnt happen.

and sliding the 'new' arm over the
platters...any special tools etc.

Yep.

In article .com,
(known to some as ) scribed...

hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

Yes. Do it only in a Class 100 (or lower -- many higher-capacity
drives are assembled in a Class 50 or lower facility) positive-pressure
clean room, with appropriate clothing and tools. Anything less will
spell certain death for your drive no matter what.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
http://www.bluefeathertech.com -- kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t calm
"Salvadore Dali's computer has surreal ports..."

wrote:
hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..


Whatever you do, get a number of identical drives and practice.

FWIW there may be model differences within the same type that makes
heads incompatible - think higher density or new tech incorporated into
existing product line to save costs.


Thomas

"Dr. Anton T. Squeegee" wrote in message
In article .com,
(known to some as ) scribed...

hi
any input on taking apart the drive and moving disk arem with heads(
for quantum/maxtor) highly apprecciated..

Yes. Do it only in a Class 100 (or lower -- many higher-capacity
drives are assembled in a Class 50 or lower facility) positive-pressure
clean room, with appropriate clothing and tools.

Anything less will spell certain death for your drive no matter what.

And another one with personal experience in transplanting dozens of headstacks.


Keep the peace(es).

wrote in message oups.com
Ok thanks
the drive in question is an old quantum 5.1el so

I suppose it has 1/possibly 2 heads

You suppose.

and the arm can be rotated away from the platters
completely before pulling it out!?

You got all that from Jules post? Amazing.

Now what about aligning the magnets

What magnet's'.

and sliding the 'new' arm over the platters...

any special tools etc.

The same ones that you used to slide them off.