Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:34:33 GMT, "Rick Yerger"
wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!


It wouldn't affect active power factor correction, but you would be
well advised to add a ground to your computer equipment for
electrostatic discharge protection.

There's a safety issue as well . . .
--

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You can use a ground lift adaptor. But, you should find a way to properly
ground your computer equipment. If not, your equipment will be sensitive to
have damage from being on a floating ground. There are also safety issues
when running this type of equipment without proper grounding.

--

JANA
_____


"Rick Yerger" wrote in message
ink.net...
Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!

Rick Yerger wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!



Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

If the outlet box is made of metal, test if the box is grouded. You can
do this by buying one of those testers with three neon lamps at a
hardware store. Use a 3 to 2 adapter with the ground wire of the
adapter connected to the outlet-plate screw. If the tester shows that
the outlet box IS properly grounded, then all you need to do is use a
3-2 adapter and make sure the wire or tab from the adapter is securely
connected to the grounded screw of the wall box.
Also, if the box is properly grounded you can install a 3 prong outlet
in the box and connect the outlet ground to the box.

If there is truly no ground, you should have a serious talk with
building management about hiring an electrician to update the building's
electrical system. Otherwise there is a serious danger of electric
shock or electrocution if an appliance malfunctions. The ground is
there to protect you if an appliance's HOT wire shorts to the outer
cabinet or a contol knob or any other part you would normally touch.
While it is rare it DOES happen and that's why a ground is necessary.

MS

"Jumpster Jiver" wrote in message news:r0r9f.5334$cg6.5187@trndny04...
Rick Yerger wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!



Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

If the outlet box is made of metal, test if the box is grouded. You can
do this by buying one of those testers with three neon lamps at a
hardware store. Use a 3 to 2 adapter with the ground wire of the
adapter connected to the outlet-plate screw. If the tester shows that
the outlet box IS properly grounded, then all you need to do is use a
3-2 adapter and make sure the wire or tab from the adapter is securely
connected to the grounded screw of the wall box.
Also, if the box is properly grounded you can install a 3 prong outlet
in the box and connect the outlet ground to the box.

If there is truly no ground, you should have a serious talk with
building management about hiring an electrician to update the building's
electrical system. Otherwise there is a serious danger of electric
shock or electrocution if an appliance malfunctions. The ground is
there to protect you if an appliance's HOT wire shorts to the outer
cabinet or a contol knob or any other part you would normally touch.
While it is rare it DOES happen and that's why a ground is necessary.

Thanks all for the replies. Yes, the outlets are in fact ungrounded.
We took the covers off all the outlets and there's no ground wire
in any of them, not even in the bathrooms. The only one we
located is in the box for the 220V oven.

The complex is old but not _that_ old (built in 1962), and the type
of construction is such that there's no access to wall interiors. I
think that's why they've been able to get waivers for current code.
The owners would literally have to tear the buildings down to redo
the electrical wiring. We can't even get a second phone line
installed for the same reason.

And USA is a modern and leading country ??????????

Although you may think Europeans are retarded, In France everybody has
electricity, water in the flat, a bathroom or at
least a shower and (even) lavatories that's not a scoop .... and earth
ground in the wall sockets ...

Most of us have at least one car some drive motorcycles and women are slim
smart cuties who wear fashion.
We also drink wine, eat cheese and we enjoy tasting foie gras without
mustard or pickles.

BTW do you know that mobile phones do exist ?
Perhaps this could be an alternative unless the provider is located too far
....




Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters.

Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

The complex is old but not _that_ old (built in 1962), and the type
of construction is such that there's no access to wall interiors. I
think that's why they've been able to get waivers for current code.
The owners would literally have to tear the buildings down to redo
the electrical wiring.

We can't even get a second phone line installed for the same reason.

"Zantafio" wrote in message
...
And USA is a modern and leading country ??????????


The USA was that already in 1944. Remember, that was the
time when many of the brave French people waved the white flag
to Hitler, until the USA, Canada and England fought for you and
gave you back your own freedom.... any more questions?

"Do Little2" wrote in message ...

"Zantafio" wrote in message
...
And USA is a modern and leading country ??????????


The USA was that already in 1944. Remember, that was the
time when many of the brave French people waved the white flag
to Hitler, until the USA, Canada and England fought for you and
gave you back your own freedom.... any more questions?

Not sure what politics has to do with this, but if it weren't
for France America would still be a British colony.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:34:33 GMT, "Rick Yerger"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters.

Within the PC's power supply there will be two noise suppression caps
between A & E and N & E. This means that the PC's metal frame will
float to half mains potential. It's not dangerous, but you may feel a
spark or tingle whenever you touch the metalwork.

-- Franc Zabkar

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

"Zantafio" wrote in message ...
And USA is a modern and leading country ??????????

Although you may think Europeans are retarded, In France everybody has
electricity, water in the flat, a bathroom or at
least a shower and (even) lavatories that's not a scoop .... and earth
ground in the wall sockets ...

You have no idea.. Lack of grounding is just the start of
the fun in this apartment complex. That it hasn't burned to
the ground yet is nothing short of a miracle.

E.g. there's one 20A circuit to service the entire living room
AND kitchen. Want some toast? Better turn off the TV.

They have a dimmer switch in the bathroom that controls
both the lights and an exhaust fan. I guess for people who
want sexy mood lighting while taking a dump. But you
better not turn down the lights too much or else you'll
burn out the fan motor, and eventually start a fire.

The building is literally held together with duct tape and
string.

Most of us have at least one car some drive motorcycles and women are slim
smart cuties who wear fashion.
We also drink wine, eat cheese and we enjoy tasting foie gras without
mustard or pickles.

BTW do you know that mobile phones do exist ?
Perhaps this could be an alternative unless the provider is located too far

We're just grinning and bearing it, until we can get the hell
out of here in a few months.

"Rick Yerger" schreef in bericht
nk.net...
"Do Little2" wrote in message
...

"Zantafio" wrote in message
...
And USA is a modern and leading country ??????????


The USA was that already in 1944. Remember, that was the
time when many of the brave French people waved the white flag
to Hitler, until the USA, Canada and England fought for you and
gave you back your own freedom.... any more questions?

Not sure what politics has to do with this, but if it weren't
for France America would still be a British colony.

YeH and they killed nearly all the native americans... A male scalp was one
dollat worth, a squaw a half dollar. The Land of Coca Cola was always a very
leading country of the world.


GOD

Jumpster Jiver wrote:
Rick Yerger wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!



Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

If the outlet box is made of metal, test if the box is grouded. You can
do this by buying one of those testers with three neon lamps at a
hardware store. Use a 3 to 2 adapter with the ground wire of the
adapter connected to the outlet-plate screw. If the tester shows that
the outlet box IS properly grounded, then all you need to do is use a
3-2 adapter and make sure the wire or tab from the adapter is securely
connected to the grounded screw of the wall box.
Also, if the box is properly grounded you can install a 3 prong outlet
in the box and connect the outlet ground to the box.

If there is truly no ground, you should have a serious talk with
building management about hiring an electrician to update the building's
electrical system. Otherwise there is a serious danger of electric
shock or electrocution if an appliance malfunctions. The ground is
there to protect you if an appliance's HOT wire shorts to the outer
cabinet or a contol knob or any other part you would normally touch.
While it is rare it DOES happen and that's why a ground is necessary.

MS


I have yet to ever see a case where the box was grounded but had only a
2 prong receptacle in it. If the house was built before about the mid
1960's, chances are the entire electrical system is not grounded.
Depending on how the house is built, it can be anywhere from fairly easy
to very difficult to add a ground, either way it probably only makes
sense to add it to the outlets that either really need grounding or are
easily accessible.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:22:58 GMT, "Rick Yerger"
wrote:


Thanks all for the replies. Yes, the outlets are in fact ungrounded.
We took the covers off all the outlets and there's no ground wire
in any of them, not even in the bathrooms. The only one we
located is in the box for the 220V oven.

You might want to double check the range/oven. The new standards call
for four wires to ranges - two lines with 240 and a ground and a
neutral. The range lights, clock etc. are connected between one hot
and neutral so they get 120 (and there's sometimes a 120 volt
convenience outlet as well) If the neutral should become loose or
disconnected at the service entrance, or plug if it has one - 120 will
be on the neutral wire.

I wouldn't ground a computer to a three wire range - too much
potential for neutral to become hot. Be especially careful if its
near a sink or grounded plumbing.

The plumbing may provide the ground you want - sweated copper is an
excellent conductor, and even galvanized pipe can be a good conductor.
It depends on the joints and construction . . .

The complex is old but not _that_ old (built in 1962), and the type
of construction is such that there's no access to wall interiors. I
think that's why they've been able to get waivers for current code.
The owners would literally have to tear the buildings down to redo
the electrical wiring. We can't even get a second phone line
installed for the same reason.

Anything built in 1962 should have three wire service. It is strange
that you don't. My grandparents had a large two apartment house that
dated back to gas lighting. Electricity was added in the 30's or
40's. Lath and plaster walls and no easy way to run wire - each room
had an individual (15A plug fuse) down in the basement. In the 30's
they were already using high power consumption appliances - vacuum
toob radios, flat irons, incandescent lighting, later refrigerators,
TV's etc.. IT was two wire service.

Old as it was, it had the wiring inside the walls - not every house in
the area did.

We used the plumbing for grounds - some time after my mother spilled
water into the wash machine motor and got between the machine and sink
.. . .

Regarding the European model . . . those that adapt technology more
slowly - get the better technology. They have higher resolution TV,
probably a more extensive and better cellular system (at least in the
cities).
--

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James Sweet wrote:
Jumpster Jiver wrote:

Rick Yerger wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!



Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

If the outlet box is made of metal, test if the box is grouded. You
can do this by buying one of those testers with three neon lamps at a
hardware store. Use a 3 to 2 adapter with the ground wire of the
adapter connected to the outlet-plate screw. If the tester shows that
the outlet box IS properly grounded, then all you need to do is use a
3-2 adapter and make sure the wire or tab from the adapter is securely
connected to the grounded screw of the wall box.
Also, if the box is properly grounded you can install a 3 prong outlet
in the box and connect the outlet ground to the box.

If there is truly no ground, you should have a serious talk with
building management about hiring an electrician to update the
building's electrical system. Otherwise there is a serious danger of
electric shock or electrocution if an appliance malfunctions. The
ground is there to protect you if an appliance's HOT wire shorts to
the outer cabinet or a contol knob or any other part you would
normally touch. While it is rare it DOES happen and that's why a
ground is necessary.

MS



I have yet to ever see a case where the box was grounded but had only a
2 prong receptacle in it. If the house was built before about the mid
1960's, chances are the entire electrical system is not grounded.
Depending on how the house is built, it can be anywhere from fairly easy
to very difficult to add a ground, either way it probably only makes
sense to add it to the outlets that either really need grounding or are
easily accessible.

Some prewar apartment houses in NYC used metal studs and lath which
ended up grounding the junction boxes, which had 2 prong receptacles in
them.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 04:25:52 GMT, James Sweet
wrote:

Jumpster Jiver wrote:
Rick Yerger wrote:

Our old apartment complex has ungrounded outlets. All 3-prong
appliances are connected with 3-to-2 adapters. Will this affect our
ability to use a PC power supply with Active PFC?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!



Assuming you are in the USA - 120V

If the outlet box is made of metal, test if the box is grouded. You can
do this by buying one of those testers with three neon lamps at a
hardware store. Use a 3 to 2 adapter with the ground wire of the
adapter connected to the outlet-plate screw. If the tester shows that
the outlet box IS properly grounded, then all you need to do is use a
3-2 adapter and make sure the wire or tab from the adapter is securely
connected to the grounded screw of the wall box.
Also, if the box is properly grounded you can install a 3 prong outlet
in the box and connect the outlet ground to the box.

If there is truly no ground, you should have a serious talk with
building management about hiring an electrician to update the building's
electrical system. Otherwise there is a serious danger of electric
shock or electrocution if an appliance malfunctions. The ground is
there to protect you if an appliance's HOT wire shorts to the outer
cabinet or a contol knob or any other part you would normally touch.
While it is rare it DOES happen and that's why a ground is necessary.

MS


I have yet to ever see a case where the box was grounded but had only a
2 prong receptacle in it. If the house was built before about the mid
1960's, chances are the entire electrical system is not grounded.
Depending on how the house is built, it can be anywhere from fairly easy
to very difficult to add a ground, either way it probably only makes
sense to add it to the outlets that either really need grounding or are
easily accessible.


I had a house in Minneaolis that was wired in the early 1920s with
cloth insulated wires that were run in grounded metal conduit. The
outlets were two prong but the boxes were grounded. Chuck

Some prewar apartment houses in NYC used metal studs and lath which
ended up grounding the junction boxes, which had 2 prong receptacles in
them.

Hmm that's one of those interesting tidbits that just doesn't happen
where I live due to wood being used for probably 99% or more of all
residential construction.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 04:25:52 GMT James Sweet
wrote:

I have yet to ever see a case where the box was grounded but had only a
2 prong receptacle in it. If the house was built before about the mid
1960's, chances are the entire electrical system is not grounded.

All the old original outlet in my 1937 house are 2 prong in grounded
metal boxes. They all appear to have been wired with BX except for the
surface mounted boxes in the basement which are in conduit. I can't be
sure of how good the ground connection actually is, but they measure
good with an ohmmeter when I check them for resistance from neutral to
ground.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------