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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo
disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#2
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Piezo capacitance
Jim Thompson wrote:
Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson To both questions, measure it? the cable for example,connect to a scope(multimeter), feed it from a source(there a re nice tonegenerator programs for xp and soundcard),and compare voltages, then calculate capacity. Same method for the piezo. Or check out an internetshop for them, and see if they have technical specs. Also, anumber of multimeters have |
#3
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Piezo capacitance
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 01:53:05 +0100, Sjouke Burry
wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson To both questions, measure it? the cable for example,connect to a scope(multimeter), feed it from a source(there a re nice tonegenerator programs for xp and soundcard),and compare voltages, then calculate capacity. Same method for the piezo. Or check out an internetshop for them, and see if they have technical specs. Also, anumber of multimeters have I don't have a signal generator, but do have a multimeter and a scope. I guess I can measure risetime of the final circuit and then beef up as needed. Amazing how many ridiculous answers you can get here :-( ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed |
#4
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Piezo capacitance
Sjouke Burry wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? To both questions, measure it? the cable for example,connect to a scope(multimeter), feed it from a source(there a re nice tonegenerator programs for xp and soundcard),and compare voltages, then calculate capacity. Same method for the piezo. Or check out an internetshop for them, and see if they have technical specs. Also, anumber of multimeters have JT doesn't know how to measure anything. All he does is make analog chip masks and **** and moan and threaten violence on everyone who isn't in his little self-aggrandizing political mutual admiration society. Hope This Helps! Rich |
#5
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Piezo capacitance
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:33:33 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Probably a few tens of nF for a 20mm 'bender' disk (which will be larger when mounted on the metal backing). Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson 10-20pF per foot comes to mind. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:50:56 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:33:33 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Probably a few tens of nF for a 20mm 'bender' disk (which will be larger when mounted on the metal backing). Gads! Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson 10-20pF per foot comes to mind. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Thanks! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? Some call the cable Cat1, but TIA never catagorized anything below Cat3. So 100ohm would be a good guess with out looking up the mfg specs. Heres the Beldin wire data sheet.. https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=STBLK22&ut=english Some vague references to 40 - 50nF / km for 24-26awg TP wire, on the telecom sites. http://books.google.com/books?id=K4ribVEOhSAC&pg=PA806&lpg=PA806&dq=50nF/mile&source=bl&ots=JT5nKQ8tHC&sig=N6Fd4xlipKs2f1He W327W8tlRKg&hl=en&ei=DHZgTcmNM8eugQfjx-HmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Cheers |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
"Martin Riddle" wrote in message ... "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? Some call the cable Cat1, but TIA never catagorized anything below Cat3. So 100ohm would be a good guess with out looking up the mfg specs. Heres the Beldin wire data sheet.. https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=STBLK22&ut=english Some vague references to 40 - 50nF / km for 24-26awg TP wire, on the telecom sites. http://books.google.com/books?id=K4ribVEOhSAC&pg=PA806&lpg=PA806&dq=50nF/mile&source=bl&ots=JT5nKQ8tHC&sig=N6Fd4xlipKs2f1He W327W8tlRKg&hl=en&ei=DHZgTcmNM8eugQfjx-HmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Cheers 1 foot of the RS variety telephone 4-cond cable measured 23pF Cheers |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:48:35 -0500, "Martin Riddle"
wrote: "Martin Riddle" wrote in message ... "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? Some call the cable Cat1, but TIA never catagorized anything below Cat3. So 100ohm would be a good guess with out looking up the mfg specs. Heres the Beldin wire data sheet.. https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=STBLK22&ut=english Some vague references to 40 - 50nF / km for 24-26awg TP wire, on the telecom sites. http://books.google.com/books?id=K4ribVEOhSAC&pg=PA806&lpg=PA806&dq=50nF/mile&source=bl&ots=JT5nKQ8tHC&sig=N6Fd4xlipKs2f1He W327W8tlRKg&hl=en&ei=DHZgTcmNM8eugQfjx-HmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Cheers 1 foot of the RS variety telephone 4-cond cable measured 23pF Cheers Thanks, Martin! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
"Martin Riddle" wrote in message ... "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? Some call the cable Cat1, but TIA never catagorized anything below Cat3. So 100ohm would be a good guess with out looking up the mfg specs. Heres the Beldin wire data sheet.. https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=STBLK22&ut=english Some vague references to 40 - 50nF / km for 24-26awg TP wire, on the telecom sites. http://books.google.com/books?id=K4ribVEOhSAC&pg=PA806&lpg=PA806&dq=50nF/mile&source=bl&ots=JT5nKQ8tHC&sig=N6Fd4xlipKs2f1He W327W8tlRKg&hl=en&ei=DHZgTcmNM8eugQfjx-HmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Cheers 1 foot of the RS variety telephone 4-cond cable measured 23pF Cheers |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
On 2/19/2011 10:29 PM, John - KD5YI wrote:
On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John Oops! I found a .9 inch disk. Measures 24 nF. |
#13
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Piezo capacitance
John - KD5YI wrote:
On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John I would be willing to bet if you were to use several different model instruments to measure that, you won't get inconsistent readings.. I would think the applied energy from the instrument would cause a piezoelectric (mechanical change) effect there by giving you different readings from one to another.. Just a thought. Jamie |
#14
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Piezo capacitance
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:00:12 -0500, Jamie
t wrote: John - KD5YI wrote: On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John I would be willing to bet if you were to use several different model instruments to measure that, you won't get inconsistent readings.. I would think the applied energy from the instrument would cause a piezoelectric (mechanical change) effect there by giving you different readings from one to another.. --- Then you _would_ get inconsistent readings. --- JF |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
John Fields wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:00:12 -0500, Jamie t wrote: John - KD5YI wrote: On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John I would be willing to bet if you were to use several different model instruments to measure that, you won't get inconsistent readings.. I would think the applied energy from the instrument would cause a piezoelectric (mechanical change) effect there by giving you different readings from one to another.. --- Then you _would_ get inconsistent readings. --- JF That was an error in my statement, I meant to say "You would get inconsistent readings" Even if all units were calibrated with one source, not the piezo as the calibration source, of course. Thanks for noticing. Jamie |
#16
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.cad
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Piezo capacitance
"Jamie" t wrote in message news John Fields wrote: On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:00:12 -0500, Jamie t wrote: John - KD5YI wrote: On 2/19/2011 6:33 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? ...Jim Thompson I just measured the only piezo disk I have, a .75 inch one. It measures 20 nF. Cheers, John I would be willing to bet if you were to use several different model instruments to measure that, you won't get inconsistent readings.. I would think the applied energy from the instrument would cause a piezoelectric (mechanical change) effect there by giving you different readings from one to another.. --- Then you _would_ get inconsistent readings. --- JF That was an error in my statement, I meant to say "You would get inconsistent readings" Even if all units were calibrated with one source, not the piezo as the calibration source, of course. Thanks for noticing. Jamie Interesting thought, not sure how inconsistent that number would be though. I worked for an Ultrasonics manufacturer building transducers and amplifiers. After a transducer (PZT8 bonded to aluminum) was complete, I measured the R and C at antiresonance with just a few volts. The tuning components were calculated with the R and C and then the amp drove the assembly at hundreds of volts. I sure hope we didn't mistune because of our low power measurement. That brings up one of my pet quibbles, Ferrites and A sub L. Always specified at one number with no power level attached. Then they are used at several hundred watts, and they are at the input to a radio used a few microwatts. I have never seen a derating of A sub L dependent on power level. Mikek |
#17
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Piezo capacitance
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... Anyone have good guess for the capacitance of a 1" diameter piezo disk? Likewise, how much capacitance in around 100' of typical telephone twisted pair? Some call the cable Cat1, but TIA never catagorized anything below Cat3. So 100ohm would be a good guess with out looking up the mfg specs. Heres the Beldin wire data sheet.. https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=STBLK22&ut=english Some vague references to 40 - 50nF / km for 24-26awg TP wire, on the telecom sites. http://books.google.com/books?id=K4ribVEOhSAC&pg=PA806&lpg=PA806&dq=50nF/mile&source=bl&ots=JT5nKQ8tHC&sig=N6Fd4xlipKs2f1He W327W8tlRKg&hl=en&ei=DHZgTcmNM8eugQfjx-HmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Cheers |
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