richard wrote:

Let me put it in a way that you might understand and which shows the continuing vitality of British usage:-
You are not an ass - you are an ARSE.

Yes, we distinguish one word from another by spelling when they mean different things ( as far as possible ).

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

richard wrote:


Let me put it in a way that you might understand and which shows the continuing vitality of British usage:-
You are not an ass - you are an ARSE.


Yes, we distinguish one word from another by spelling when they mean different things ( as far as possible ).


Indeed - and it sounds better also :-)

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:02:01 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:

Napolitano is the one who inserts Timothy McVeigh into the report
as a "typical" conversion of a soldier to an extremist.

And isn't that what happened ? Of course he was of low intellect,
which made the conversion easy.

Graham

The 'conversion' took place when Janet Reno barbecued dozens of
children at Waco.

Sorry, that was your favorite kid diddler, David Koresh.

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:40:30 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:06:07 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:02:01 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:

Napolitano is the one who inserts Timothy McVeigh into the report
as a "typical" conversion of a soldier to an extremist.

And isn't that what happened ? Of course he was of low intellect,
which made the conversion easy.

Graham

The 'conversion' took place when Janet Reno barbecued dozens of
children at Waco.

Please don't troll feed the Eeyore jerk. Shun him. Let him die
that most unpleasant of deaths... alone... without a friend.

...Jim Thompson

I understand what you mean but I think the right leaving the left's
ranting's largely unchallenged has resulted in a domestic version of
Hitler's 'Big Lie' theory.

No, that would be the reasons given for the Iraq war. lol

Eeyore wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

Please don't troll feed the Eeyore jerk. Shun him. Let him die
that most unpleasant of deaths... alone... without a friend.

You really are becoming most unpleasant. Something common amongst
extreme right-wingers I've noticed.

Graham

Don't leave out delusional. =)

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:00:26 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



marcodbeast wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Did you actually read Napolitano's report?

Did you? I'm particularly interested in whether or not you can
tell us what it said about left wing extremist groups.

About as bad as right wing extremist groups most likely.

Graham


Typical: 'presume' and 'guess' at what you haven't a clue.

I *have* read the entire report and it says not even 1 word about
"left wing extremist groups," which isn't terribly surprising with a
title of:

"Rightwing Extremism: Current
Economic and Political Climate Fueling

Sorry, you're right - different report, from January.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/po...ng-extremists/

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...ist_Threat.pdf

Traitor Ollie doesn't seem to have had much to say on that one. =)


Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment"


The first sentence opens with "The DHS/Office of Intelligence and
Analysis (I&A) has no specific information that domestic rightwing*
terrorists are currently planning acts of violence,..."

The very next 'finding' opens with: "Threats from white supremacist
and violent antigovernment groups during 2009 have been largely
rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts...."

There we have the lovely conundrum of "violent" groups not planning
violent acts.

Only if you cannot read the English language. lol

Was just time to engage in some fear mongering, I
suppose.

You are claiming violent groups indulge in violence 24/7? ROFLMAO

Have you noticed a distinct inability on your part to make arguments
without straw men?

In fact, they already caught a couple good ol' boys conspiring to kill
Obama - and Bush's DoJ let them go.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27405681/


Of course, besides there being not one shred of evidence for a blessed
thing said,

You can prove this? ROFLMAO

there's the huge red flag of Napolitano's 'order' to not
call people who fly airplanes into skyscrapers "terrorists' but
blithely labeling differing political opinions with it, heightened by
the absurd 'finding' that "DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small
terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the
most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States,"

Fact. See article at end of post.

never
mind those Islamo-fascists.

There are no "islamo-fascists." They do not exist. It's a scarecrow
invented by dishonest people who were trying to conceal what Fascism is,
during the Bush administration, and is useful mainly for sorting out the IQ
of right wing commentators. You mean 'Islamic radicals', or 'Wahabiists'.


After all, non of them are 'terrorists'
nor do they commit terrorists acts, just "man made disasters."

Obviously, 'politically correct' rhetoric is reserved for actual
declared enemies engaged in open warfare, not politics. I trust you
see the irony.

The woman is dangerously incompetent but that isn't a disqualification
in this administration. It's 'policy'.

...And ending up with the usual made-up crap. lol


Now some facts:

"Inside the home and storage facilities of William Krar, investigators
found a sodium-cyanide bomb capable of killing thousands, more than a
hundred explosives, half a million rounds of ammunition, dozens of
illegal weapons, and a mound of white-supremacist and antigovernment
literature."


From The Christian Science Monitor, 12/29/03:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html

The terror threat at home, often overlooked

As the media focus on international terror, a Texan pleads guilty to
possessing a weapon of mass destruction.

By Kris Axtman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor


HOUSTON --

It began as a misdelivered envelope and developed into the most
extensive domestic terrorism investigation since the Oklahoma City
bombing.

Last month, an east Texas man pleaded guilty to possession of a weapon
of mass destruction.

Inside the home and storage facilities of William Krar, investigators
found a sodium-cyanide bomb capable of killing thousands, more than a
hundred explosives, half a million rounds of ammunition, dozens of
illegal weapons, and a mound of white-supremacist and antigovernment
literature.

"Without question, it ranks at the very top of all domestic terrorist
arrests in the past 20 years in terms of the lethality of the
arsenal," says Daniel Levitas, author of "The Terrorist Next Door: The
Militia Movement and the Radical Right."

But outside Tyler, Texas, the case is almost unknown.

In the past nine months, there have been two government press releases
and a handful of local stories, but no press conference and no
coverage in the national newspapers.

Experts say the case highlights the increased cooperation and quicker
response by US agencies since Sept. 11.

But others say it points up just how political the terror war is.

"There is no value for the Bush administration to highlighting
domestic terrorism right now," says Robert Jensen, a journalism
professor at the University of Texas in Austin.

"But there are significant political benefits to highlighting foreign
terrorists, especially when trying to whip up support for war."

Mr. Levitas goes even further:

"The government has a severe case of tunnel vision when it comes to
domestic terrorism. I have no doubt whatsoever that had Krar and his
compatriots been Arab-Americans or linked to some violent Islamic
fundamentalist group, we would have heard from John Ashcroft himself."

The case began in the fall of 2002 when a package bound for New Jersey
was misdelivered to a New York address.

The family inadvertently opened the package and found fake
identification badges, including Department of Defense and United
Nations IDs.

The FBI eventually tracked the package back to Mr. Krar in Noonday,
Texas.

The cache of weapons and bombs was found when the FBI served a search
warrant in April of this year.

Krar and his common-law wife, Judith Bruey, and the receiver of the
package, New Jersey Militia member Edward Feltus, were arrested.

All three have pleaded guilty to separate counts and are awaiting
sentencing.

Brit Featherston, the assistant US attorney in charge of the case,
says it was Krar and Ms. Bruey's connections to white-supremacist
groups that prompted further investigation.

"Any little town has worse criminals on paper than these two. But
because of their background, the red flags were flying all over the
place - especially after Sept. 11," says Mr. Featherston, in the
eastern district of Texas.

Before Sept. 11, he says, the case most likely would have been worked
as a false-ID case and ended there.

Instead, dozens of law-enforcement agencies were involved and hundreds
of subpoenas were served.

"This case was very high priority," says Featherston.

Still, investigators have been unable to answer questions such as:

Where was the sodium-cyanide bomb destined?

And were the weapons being prepared for a group or sold individually?

Featherston says the investigation is ongoing and won't end until
these questions are answered.

Experts say the case is important not only because of what it says
about increased government cooperation, but also because it shows how
serious a threat the country faces from within.

"The lesson in the Krar case is that we have to always be concerned
about domestic terrorism.

It would be a terrible mistake to believe that terrorism always comes
from outside," says Mark Potok at the Southern Poverty Law Center in
Montgomery, Ala.

The fact is, the number of domestic terrorist acts in the past five
years far outweighs the number of international acts, says Mark
Pitcavage of the fact-finding department at the Anti-Defamation
League.

"We do have home-grown hate in the United States, people who are just
as ill-disposed to the American government as any international
terrorist group," he says.

Levitas estimates that there are approximately 25,000 right-wing
extremist members and activists and some 250,000 sympathizers.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 708 hate groups in 2002.

While Mr. Pitcavage was surprised the Krar case did not receive more
attention, "It is a fact that a lot of stories involving domestic
extremists get undercovered," he says.

He points to a case he calls one of "the major terrorist plots of the
1990s" in which militia from around the country converged in central
Texas allegedly to attack a military base.

They were arrested at a campground near Fort Hood on the morning of
July 4, 1997, with a large collection of weapons and explosives.

"There was virtually no media coverage of that incident either," says
Pitcavage.

Featherston speculates that the Krar case got little attention because
the arrests were made just after the war began in Iraq.

"Excuse me, a chemical weapon was found in the home state of George
Bush," says Levitas.

"I'm not saying the Justice Department deliberately decided to
downplay the story because they thought it might be embarrassing to
the US government if weapons of mass destruction were found in America
before they were found in Iraq. But I am saying it was a mistake not
to give this higher profile."

For his part, Krar has remained silent.

He will most likely be sentenced sometime in February, and could
receive up to life in prison.

His attorney, Tonda Curry, says the US government has no reason to be
afraid of him.

"It looks a whole lot worse than it is. He had a lot of things that
most people would never have any desire to have, but much of what he
had was perfectly legal."

richard wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
richard wrote:

Let me put it in a way that you might understand and which shows the continuing vitality of British usage:-
You are not an ass - you are an ARSE.

True but I let them get away with that one because 'arse' confuses them. I even use 'gasoline' to keep them happy.


Yes, we distinguish one word from another by spelling when they mean different things ( as far as possible
).

Indeed - and it sounds better also :-)

To me 'color' always looks like it should be pronounced 'collar'.

Graham

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

the renowned Eeyore wrote:
Archimedes' Lever wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Joel Koltner wrote:
"Jim Thompson" wrote

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516886,00.html

Of course Oliver North is an extremist -- that should be obvious. But when
did "extreme" come to automatically mean "bad?"

The Spanish Inquisition, the Taleban etc ?

Do you spell everything wrong?

TALIBAN

There is no accepted Arab - English spelling because the languages are
fundamentally different. Arabic is based on sound, not letter by letter spelling.

What about Pashto?

Are they the same as the Pashtun ? Ah it's the language, the Pashtun speak Pashto.

Pashto (Naskh: ????? - IPA: [pa?'to]; alternative spelling: Pakhto, Pushto, Pukhto,
Pashtu, or Pushtu), also known as Afghani,[3][4] is an Indo-European language spoken
primarily in Afghanistan and northwestern Pakistan.[5] Pashto belongs to the Eastern
Iranian[6] branch of the Indo-Iranian language family. There are nearly 40 million
Pashtuns. As defined in the Constitution of Afghanistan, Pashto is a national and
official language of Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashto_language

Graham

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:44:34 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson"
wrote in message ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516886,00.html

Of course Oliver North is an extremist -- that should be obvious.

Obvious to who based on what definition?

Obvious to anyone, using any standard definition.



But when
did "extreme" come to automatically mean "bad?"

So you're, at least, 'confused' what the DHS reports 'means' when it
uses the word?

Made-up Non Sequitur.


North does well to quote
Barry Goldwater's words.

Are you sure Goldwater wasn't employing irony or a 'proof by
contradiction'?


Throughout time, those with strong-hold beliefs and military
training were clearly some of the more dangerous people any
government has to worry about.

Where did you come up with that?

Any accurate world history will do.

Were the mobs of Paris 'trained
military'? Was Al Capone? Was The Weathermen Underground?

You have a hilarious definition of "some." lol



Just as love and hate are largely two sides of the same coin,

The coin of emotion?

so is patriotism
and terrorism...

The coin of 'violent acts'? One in defense of freedom and the other
against it?

Plenty of terrorism in support of freedom out there.



I suppose Roosevelt and Hitler were just 'two sides of the same coin'.

These are nothing more than attempts at false equivalencies.

A lie. They are oft-expressed sentiments throughout human history.



with people crossing from one side to the other more often
than we'd like to admit.

Sounds like another invention for the sake of convenience.

Your opinion. lol



Speak for yourself.

ROFL Welcome to Usenet.


I don't think North makes a compelling case that the
government is really out to get him or those like him, however -- it
sounds as though the report is largely factual.

There's actually very little 'factual' about it, making prolific use
of words like "may," and what few 'facts' it contains are anecdotally
spread over 15 years with the 'opinions' drawn irrational.

Again, your opinion. lol


It says "DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells
embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous
domestic terrorism threat in the United States" while the very first
'finding' opens with "The DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis
(I&A) has no specific information that domestic rightwing* terrorists
are currently planning acts of violence,.."

The "most dangerous domestic terrorism threat" is one in which there's
no evidence of violence or planning?

Reading comprehension problem, I see. Plenty of evidence of violence out
there, and of course "has no evidence" does not equal "no evidence." lol



Well, hell, let's celebrate, then.

In a perverse sense it's a compliment
that those on the right are recognized as generally being more
organized, having better training and being more willing to
translate their beliefs into strong actions than those on the left.

Perverse is an accurate label for that nonsense.

Made-up crap. Ask the victims of the OKC bombing or the Daschle office
anthraxing.



The report says nothing about the 'left', much less any 'comparison';
"perverse compliment" or otherwise.

The other report, released in january, covers the left.

Traitor Ollie doesn't seem to be interested in that one. He seems to be
indignant that selling antiaircraft missiles to Iran might be thought
"extremist."




North doesn't make a good case for "the report reminds us that
Timothy McVeigh was a veteran, thus suggesting all veterans are nut
jobs -- how slanderous!" either -- he'd do better if he could dig up
some statistics citing what percentage of those involved in
terrorist activities happened to have been veterans vs. those who
weren't. If there's not much difference, then he has a case. But
if vets statistically tend to become terrorists far more often than
non-vets... well, who's more likely to get an extended search at
airport these days -- an Islamic middle-eaterner or a
fourth-generation farmer from Minnesota?

It was the *reports* job to make that case,

Um, no. It's Traitor Ollie's statement. Here's the pathetic drool again:

"the report reminds us that
Timothy McVeigh was a veteran, thus suggesting all veterans are nut
jobs -- how slanderous!"

Note that one example is supposed to impugn a whole class - if you're as
dumb as Traitor Ollie, and it appears that you are.


if there was any, but the
only thing it does is make the claim using a single 15 year old
anecdotal example of McVeigh.

Plenty of other great examples out there.



Who, btw, was set off by Janet Reno barbecuing dozens of children at
Waco

Never happened. Complete and utter wingnut fantasy concocted to defend
kid-diddling at the Koresh compound.

so unless Napolitano is considering another luau the 'example'
has little bearing on the 'factors' cited.

It is a perfect example of what the rweport is discussing - as is your
idiotic lying hatespew on the subject..




Just as North would rightfully call on peaceful Muslims in the U.S.
to condemn the actions of radical Muslims in the middle east who
commit acts of terrorism, he should call on his fellow conservatives
who legally exercise their rights to free speech and to bear arms
(more power to them) to condemn those who have given up on the
government and resort to terrorism in out own country.

'Right Wingers' *do*, vocally, condemn ALL acts of terrorism
regardless of the political affiliation or 'reason' the ones
committing the acts claim.

Some do. Others applaud them.

It is the left who, at the least, 'qualify'
their 'condemnation' with 'understanding' of, and 'sympathy' with,
the 'reason', if they bother to condemn at all.

And the right. As you just did with Koresh, above.



Right-wingers have many reasons to dislike the current
administration, but I don't think one can seriously argue the
country's gone so far to Hell in a handbasket that the founding
father's "escape clause" -- people taking up arms and removing the
government by force -- ought to come into play. The tree of liberty
doesn't need refreshing with blood *quite* yet, IMO.

The political opposition has not called for one

Yes, they have, repeatedly and quite obviously. Numerous internet
examples abound, particularly on alt.politics.obama. It's almost funny!


and, in fact, they
fell all over themselves saying "Obama deserves a chance,"

A lie.

so all
you're doing is participating in the same fear mongering and political
bigotry the DHS report does.

...And the instructions to republican legislators from John Boehner.


Like all things, the report did not spring from whole cloth nor does
it exist in a vacuum. It's glib with the use of 'terrorism' and
'terrorist acts' in regard to the, so called, 'right wing' while the
very same agency has ordered such words cannot be used to describe
people who fly passenger planes into skyscrapers and lop off head for
wearing the wrong length beard.

Did you ever come up with a cite for that? lol


And it comes from the same
administration who's top officials and advisors have been prolific in
calling 'tax protesters', or anyone else who expresses political
opposition, 'hate groups' and 'unpatriotic'.

A lie.



If there is one thing we've learned form the left, though, it's that
should there be any 'terrorism', for which there is no evidence any is
even in the planning, it will be the Administration's 'fault' because,
as we've been told for decades, all terrorist acts are 'caused by' and
the result of U.S. 'policy'.

A lie.


It's all quite 'understandable' and those
"little Ichmans" in the World Trade Center got what they deserved when
"the chickens came home to roost." We've been told by the left that
these, as well as hatred of the FBI, CIA, or any 'enforcement' arm of
government, are 'patriotic' sentiments.

A lie.


No wonder they're paranoid.

Now THAT's funny.

marcodbeast wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


Please don't troll feed the Eeyore jerk. Shun him. Let him die
that most unpleasant of deaths... alone... without a friend.

You really are becoming most unpleasant. Something common amongst
extreme right-wingers I've noticed.

Graham


Don't leave out delusional. =)

nor antediluvian

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:20:00 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson"
wrote in message ...
Did you actually read Napolitano's report?

No, just North's commentary on it.


Napolitano is the one who inserts Timothy McVeigh into the report as a
"typical" conversion of a soldier to an extremist.

Napolitano is a real piece-a-work. We Arizonans are so glad we were
able to foist her off on Obama and get a real governor replacement ;-)

How many people remember that DHS was created, as a concession, on the
recommendation of a commission chaired by Gary Hart? Probably less than
half the right and no one on the left.

Jim Thompson wrote:

Or global warming, or carbon credits/cap & trade, bail-outs, no secret
ballot for union elections...... I knew Obama would be problematic,
but I never dreamed that it would be to this degree :-(

I did. Never proud of their country before. Felt like he was in "enemy
territory" when he briefly worked in the private sector. How could it not
be this bad?

Jim Thompson wrote:

Or global warming, or carbon credits/cap & trade, bail-outs, no secret
ballot for union elections...... I knew Obama would be problematic,
but I never dreamed that it would be to this degree :-(

I did. Never proud of their country before. Felt like he was in "enemy
territory" when he briefly worked in the private sector. How could it not
be this bad?