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Electrolytics question
I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. |
Electrolytics question
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote:
I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. It's a pressure relief thing. If the electrolyte overheats and boils, the slits crack and a more explosive event is avoided. John |
Electrolytics question
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. To let the magic smoke out away from other components ?:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food |
Electrolytics question
"Meee" I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. ** You had better replace those FAULTY caps as soon as possible. Do not use the PC until you have, as other parts may become damaged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague ...... Phil |
Electrolytics question
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:42:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. It's a pressure relief thing. If the electrolyte overheats and boils, the slits crack and a more explosive event is avoided. John I would add that all those he saw that were split are likely no longer at their manufactured value. |
Electrolytics question
Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. You will find a lot of info here. http://badcaps.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Graham cross-posted to sci.electronics repair for info |
Electrolytics question
Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. You will find a lot of info here. http://badcaps.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Graham cross-posted to sci.electronics repair for info |
Electrolytics question - update
Eeyore wrote: Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY You will find a lot of info here. http://badcaps.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Nice quip from the above " From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the disaster known as Windows Vista! On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100 terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other. This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded them back to XP Pro." Graham |
Electrolytics question - update
Eeyore wrote: Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY You will find a lot of info here. http://badcaps.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Nice quip from the above " From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the disaster known as Windows Vista! On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100 terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other. This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded them back to XP Pro." Graham |
Electrolytics question
Archimedes' Lever wrote: John Larkin wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. It's a pressure relief thing. If the electrolyte overheats and boils, the slits crack and a more explosive event is avoided. I would add that all those he saw that were split are likely no longer at their manufactured value. Especially with all the electrolyte evaporated ! Even without splits, I've seen examples where the capacitance had dropped to ~ 10% of original value. This can cause regulators to 'hunt' and blow the CPU by over-volting it. Certain mobo makers - Gigabyte ? - now use only 'organic' type electros for reliability. Graham |
Electrolytics question
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. Arfa You will find a lot of info here. http://badcaps.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Graham cross-posted to sci.electronics repair for info |
Electrolytics question
Arfa Daily wrote:
As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. |
Electrolytics question
f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Graham |
Electrolytics question
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote:
I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Love posters who answer their own question! |
Electrolytics question
Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. True. They don't exactly go overboard on the drill diameter ! Graham |
Electrolytics question
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. Arfa They certainly can be difficult, an absolute must is an iron with sufficient power to heat the joint through quickly (DO NOT use one of those soldering guns that passes low voltage/high current through a solid copper element - they induce destructive currents in the PCB traces!). Usually the 2 wires can be eased out by tilting the capacitor as one of the solder joints is melted and then the other until its out. Clearing the holes also isn't easy, solder wick won't do it you need a solder sucker and a lot of practice getting enough of the iron tip on the tinned pad and still leave enough gap to suck the solder through - you will probably have to go at it from both sides too! Once or twice out of sheer desperation I've heated the through hole and swatted the board on the edge of the bench to knock the solder out, but this has a real risk of breaking any crystals on the board! |
Electrolytics question
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Graham If you make sure none of the pins are bent on the solder side sometimes its possible to just lift the pins out one by one on the tip of the iron, if the pin is sheared off close to the IC body it leaves a slight hook on top, simply hook the tip of the iron under it and add fresh solder - this runs down the pin providing heat transfer to the solder joint and the surface tension holds the pin on the tip as you lift it out of the hole. |
Electrolytics question
"Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
Electrolytics question
Eeyore wrote:
f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Graham sadly that is not an option, the device is a constructed ceramic case of other devices within with the pins on the underside of the case - rather like a BGA device but pins and not blobs if you understand what I mean. The board has an exchange value with Sony of £1050 and they will only accept a board for exchange if not physically damaged, so being careful and taking time is the only option.. |
Electrolytics question
ian field wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Graham If you make sure none of the pins are bent on the solder side sometimes its possible to just lift the pins out one by one on the tip of the iron, if the pin is sheared off close to the IC body it leaves a slight hook on top, simply hook the tip of the iron under it and add fresh solder - this runs down the pin providing heat transfer to the solder joint and the surface tension holds the pin on the tip as you lift it out of the hole. Yes I've employed that method on convential type devices - but the device I describe is somewhat different - have a look at the datasheet you'll see what I mean. Its a 41 pin device about an inch square - all pins on the underside |
Electrolytics question
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Yes it is - and you're right. |
Electrolytics question
ian field wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad manufacture). The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Oh dear. A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture) B: Can you read what brands they are ? C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ? D: What brand mobo is it ? E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types. As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. Arfa They certainly can be difficult, an absolute must is an iron with sufficient power to heat the joint through quickly (DO NOT use one of those soldering guns that passes low voltage/high current through a solid copper element - they induce destructive currents in the PCB traces!). Usually the 2 wires can be eased out by tilting the capacitor as one of the solder joints is melted and then the other until its out. Clearing the holes also isn't easy, solder wick won't do it you need a solder sucker and a lot of practice getting enough of the iron tip on the tinned pad and still leave enough gap to suck the solder through - you will probably have to go at it from both sides too! Once or twice out of sheer desperation I've heated the through hole and swatted the board on the edge of the bench to knock the solder out, but this has a real risk of breaking any crystals on the board! Good soldering is a skill - and to be practiced as often as possible if you don't want your work to look like a flock of seagulls have flown over :) |
Electrolytics question
ian field wrote: "Eeyore" wrote f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. If you make sure none of the pins are bent on the solder side sometimes its possible to just lift the pins out one by one on the tip of the iron, if the pin is sheared off close to the IC body it leaves a slight hook on top, simply hook the tip of the iron under it and add fresh solder - this runs down the pin providing heat transfer to the solder joint and the surface tension holds the pin on the tip as you lift it out of the hole. Goes to show what a range of real skills the true repairman needs. And yes I've done it too. A magnetic Weller TCP tip and a pin containing steel helps ! Graham |
Electrolytics question
Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Is it ? I was referring to pinned ICs. Use a flame thrower on a PGA ! ;-) Graham |
Electrolytics question
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:28:13 +0000, f825_677
wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. Desoldering a through hole part on a multi-layer PCB can be difficult, especially if the part in question or the PCB is sinking all of your solder tip heat away. I have two good solutions. First one is to pre-heat the entire PCB assembly to about 160F. That will keep the heat from sinking away so much. You can also heat the local area with a heat gun. This works even better with the pre-heated PCB. The soldering operations generally take place without a hitch in these cases. |
Electrolytics question
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:18:33 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: f825_677 wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: As Graham says, but be aware that unless you are a *very* experienced solderer, and posess the right desoldering equipment, you will struggle to do the job. These are some of the very worst bitches to get out of a board, that you will *ever* come across. And then some. You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Graham Absolutely. If the part being removed is not part of the salvage operation, cut all pins, remove the part, and then desolder each pin individually. You could also fill the open holes with solder, and dog-ear the new chip's pins outward and make it a surface mount install. |
Electrolytics question
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:01:01 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Is it ? I was referring to pinned ICs. Use a flame thrower on a PGA ! ;-) If it is a ceramic package, that is not far from the best way to remove it. I would: Heat the PCB up a couple hundred degrees F, then heat the ceramic chip package body up with a high temp heat gun, while inverted. A heat gun on the bottom of the board should cause a near instant reflow, and release of the chip. The chip and pins get real hot. The PCB assembly only gets hot enough to perform the reflow/release operation. |
Electrolytics question
Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:01:01 +0000, Eeyore wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Is it ? I was referring to pinned ICs. Use a flame thrower on a PGA ! ;-) If it is a ceramic package, that is not far from the best way to remove it. I would: Heat the PCB up a couple hundred degrees F, then heat the ceramic chip package body up with a high temp heat gun, while inverted. A heat gun on the bottom of the board should cause a near instant reflow, and release of the chip. And all the other SMT devices will fall off the board as well - would right off the board its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece of equipment, but then a lot of broadcast kit is expensive and needs special knowledge to be worked on. I saw one of our junior engineers employ your method - I prefer my guys to use time and patience over speed and probable damage. |
Electrolytics question
"f825_677" wrote in message ... Archimedes' Lever wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:01:01 +0000, Eeyore wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Is it ? I was referring to pinned ICs. Use a flame thrower on a PGA ! ;-) If it is a ceramic package, that is not far from the best way to remove it. I would: Heat the PCB up a couple hundred degrees F, then heat the ceramic chip package body up with a high temp heat gun, while inverted. A heat gun on the bottom of the board should cause a near instant reflow, and release of the chip. And all the other SMT devices will fall off the board as well - would right off the board its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece of equipment, but then a lot of broadcast kit is expensive and needs special knowledge to be worked on. I saw one of our junior engineers employ your method - I prefer my guys to use time and patience over speed and probable damage. Most electronics tool suppliers stock pencil blowlamps which would be precise enough to desolder a decent size ceramic chip, some are sold in sets with a variety of nozzle attachments. The spread is way more precise than a heat gun. For smaller chips it might be worth looking out for one of those "windproof" lighters that uses the same design of jet as the pencil blowlamp - only smaller. |
Electrolytics question
"flipper" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:29:23 -0500, PeterD wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:38:50 +0000, Meee wrote: I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. Love posters who answer their own question! It seems obvious to those who know but I'd be wiling to bet he wondered why they made it 'weak' with the indentations so that it 'broke' when it otherwise wouldn't have. Not too sure about the "otherwise wouldn't have" - without those indentations it would likely have burst with a fairly impressive bang. |
Electrolytics question
"ian field" wrote in message Most electronics tool suppliers stock pencil blowlamps which would be precise enough to desolder a decent size ceramic chip, some are sold in sets with a variety of nozzle attachments. The spread is way more precise than a heat gun. I think he's saying that you can't apply heat to the component side at all, even if it's directed only at the target device, because the package in question is a hybrid with SMT parts exposed on its own surface. For smaller chips it might be worth looking out for one of those "windproof" lighters that uses the same design of jet as the pencil blowlamp - only smaller. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
Electrolytics question
"Tom Del Rosso" wrote in message ... "ian field" wrote in message Most electronics tool suppliers stock pencil blowlamps which would be precise enough to desolder a decent size ceramic chip, some are sold in sets with a variety of nozzle attachments. The spread is way more precise than a heat gun. I think he's saying that you can't apply heat to the component side at all, even if it's directed only at the target device, because the package in question is a hybrid with SMT parts exposed on its own surface. If its going in the bin once removed, that hardly matters. |
Electrolytics question
"f825_677" wrote in message ... And all the other SMT devices will fall off the board as well - would right off the board its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece of equipment, but then a lot of broadcast kit is expensive and needs special knowledge to be worked on. I saw one of our junior engineers employ your method - I prefer my guys to use time and patience over speed and probable damage. have you seen http://www.oxygendct.com/acatalog/OxyChip_ICs.html ? Best Regards Steve sousa |
Electrolytics question
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:38:45 +0000, f825_677
wrote: Archimedes' Lever wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:01:01 +0000, Eeyore wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message f825_677 wrote: You should try a Sony 1602 or 1601 IC from one of their broadcast mixer boards - it can take an hour if you're lucky and all day if you're not and we have professionaly desoldering vacumme equipment - the holes are barely larger than the pin its self every engineer working on these things in every broadcast engineering department complaints about these devices.. Give me a 100 pin BGA device any day.. If you know the IC's buggered (or even of low commercial value), cut every pin and remove them individually. Then clean the holes up. It always wins on time and cost. Isn't that a PGA? Hard to cut the pins. Is it ? I was referring to pinned ICs. Use a flame thrower on a PGA ! ;-) If it is a ceramic package, that is not far from the best way to remove it. I would: Heat the PCB up a couple hundred degrees F, then heat the ceramic chip package body up with a high temp heat gun, while inverted. A heat gun on the bottom of the board should cause a near instant reflow, and release of the chip. And all the other SMT devices will fall off the board as well WRONG! A 150 degree F assembly is NOT at solder reflow temperature. - would right off the board WRONG! You PRE-heat the PCB. You only heat to reflow temp, the IC chip you are removing. D'OH! its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece of equipment, Yeah, and you are not very brainy to think that someone would tell you to reflow the entire board. Learn to read. Then learn how to properly comprehend what you read. but then a lot of broadcast kit is expensive and needs special knowledge to be worked on. No. It needs a proper technician. Nothing special about that. Just educated. I worked at General Instrument. I know about racks that cost $2M each, and the broadcast industry had to buy our gear. I saw one of our junior engineers employ your method No, you didn't. Obviously, since you have a bent ****ing perception of what "my method" is. - I prefer my guys to use time and patience over speed and probable damage. You're a goddamned presumptuous idiot. The method I described IS how one removes a part from a board. You need to learn about heat sources and sinking. In the case I described, the heat is applied to the IC chip. So, what gets damaged? |
Electrolytics question
ian field wrote: If its going in the bin once removed, that hardly matters. I heard a story (likely true) of an MD who went round the factory after 'time', pulling components back out of the bin and replacing them on the bench. Graham |
Electrolytics question
"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:38:45 +0000, f825_677 wrote: its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece of equipment, Yeah, and you are not very brainy to think that someone would tell you to reflow the entire board. Learn to read. Then learn how to properly comprehend what you read. You refer to "the entire board". He refers to a PCB, but not the one you think. The part in question is a PCB in itself. It's a hybrid module with its own SMT parts, so you can't heat the whole part. Google the part number and see what it looks like. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
Electrolytics question
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... ian field wrote: If its going in the bin once removed, that hardly matters. I heard a story (likely true) of an MD who went round the factory after 'time', pulling components back out of the bin and replacing them on the bench. Graham The stupidest suits tend to float to the top! |
Electrolytics question
ian field wrote: "Eeyore" wrote ian field wrote: If its going in the bin once removed, that hardly matters. I heard a story (likely true) of an MD who went round the factory after 'time', pulling components back out of the bin and replacing them on the bench. The stupidest suits tend to float to the top! He also bought cheap thousands of TL072s that been salt-water contamined on a sea voyage IIRC. You can imagine what that did to the returns rate ! Graham |
Electrolytics question
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:27:59 +1100, "Phil Allison"
wrote: "Meee" I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. ** You had better replace those FAULTY caps as soon as possible. Do not use the PC until you have, as other parts may become damaged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague ..... Phil My PC shutdown the otherday from overttemp. Opened up for a look, reason for OT was dust. Sucked it all up and she is up an running again. Did notice the electro's were stuffed, thought about replacing them but could not be stuffed. Need a shop that does it for you, need on in Brissie. |
Electrolytics question
Prevents dangerous explosions when the Cap breaks down, the indents weakens
the housing to allow for pressure to be released thus preventing a build up and explosion. Very good idea. You need to replace and figure out why yours failed. DRLee "Meee" wrote in message ... I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open, along the indentations. |
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