"Dleer"

Prevents dangerous explosions when the Cap breaks down, the indents
weakens the housing to allow for pressure to be released thus preventing a
build up and explosion. Very good idea.


** But only needed on vertical mounting electros - since the rubber bung
in the top is held firmly in place by the PCB.


You need to replace and figure out why yours failed.


** He does NOT need to to the latter

- the reason is already well known to be a manufacturing issue with the
caps.



.... Phil

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:27:59 +1100, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Meee"

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them. The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.


** You had better replace those FAULTY caps as soon as possible.

Do not use the PC until you have, as other parts may become damaged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague



..... Phil


It's an MSI board - just like the one in the above article !

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:37:48 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:38:45 +0000, f825_677
wrote:

its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the
whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece
of equipment,

Yeah, and you are not very brainy to think that someone would tell
you to reflow the entire board. Learn to read. Then learn how to
properly comprehend what you read.

You refer to "the entire board". He refers to a PCB, but not the one you
think. The part in question is a PCB in itself. It's a hybrid module with
its own SMT parts, so you can't heat the whole part.

YES, you can, damnit! The key is to PRE-heat the entire part so that
the transition of temperature from that temp to the temp needed to remove
the part is lower, and less likely to reflow only a portion of the pins.
It insures that ALL the pins on the chip reflow, and the chip can be
removed without damaging the PCB.

I never said anything about reflowing the entire PCB. HE DID!

I mentioned PRE-heating the PCB, and then HEATING only the part to be
removed to the reflow temperature.

Google the part number and see what it looks like.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:37:48 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:38:45 +0000, f825_677
wrote:

its a £1050 exchange PCB from Sony, but to buy new is £11,600, the
whole mixer at purchase was just over £300,000 its not a cheap piece
of equipment,

Yeah, and you are not very brainy to think that someone would tell
you to reflow the entire board. Learn to read. Then learn how to
properly comprehend what you read.

You refer to "the entire board". He refers to a PCB, but not the one you
think. The part in question is a PCB in itself. It's a hybrid module with
its own SMT parts, so you can't heat the whole part.

YES, you can, damnit! The key is to PRE-heat the entire part so that
the transition of temperature from that temp to the temp needed to remove
the part is lower, and less likely to reflow only a portion of the pins.
It insures that ALL the pins on the chip reflow, and the chip can be
removed without damaging the PCB.

I never said anything about reflowing the entire PCB. HE DID!

I mentioned PRE-heating the PCB, and then HEATING only the part to be
removed to the reflow temperature.

Google the part number and see what it looks like.

In article ,
ian field wrote:

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Clearing the holes also isn't easy, solder wick won't do it you need a
solder sucker and a lot of practice getting enough of the iron tip on the
tinned pad and still leave enough gap to suck the solder through - you will
probably have to go at it from both sides too!

I found that it really helps to fit some butyl-rubber sleeving to the end
of the solder sucker. This improves the fit between the sucker and the board
and increases chances of clearing it. Otherwise, the business end of the
sucker sits at a slight angle, and it sucks sideways, not through.

It's important to use the right kind of sleeving/tube, that will NOT melt
on the iron!

I recently had to re-cap an old motherboard, 11 capacitors, every one
had to be rocked out as mentioned elsewhere in thread as there was NO way
to clear the holes with the leg of the capacitor still in there.

Also remember to look for any leakage from the capacitors, which can damage
the board. No point re-fitting new capacitors if the tracks start to go
green and vanish. Clean it!
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[at]pootle.demon.co.uk | http://www.pootle.demon.co.uk/

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:49:46 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Eeyore wrote:

Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A bus stops and two Italian men get on. They seat themselves and engage in animated conversation. The lady sitting behind them ignores their conversation at first, but she listens in horror as one of the men says the following: "Emma come first. Den I come. Two asses, dey come together. I come again. Two asses, dey come together again. I come again and pee twice. Then I come once-a more."
"You foul-mouthed swine," retorted the lady indignantly, "in this country we don't talk about our sex lives in public!"
"Hey, coola down lady," said the man, "Imma just tellun my friend howa tospella Mississippi."

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:49:46 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Eeyore wrote:

Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A bus stops and two Italian men get on. They seat themselves and engage in animated conversation. The lady sitting behind them ignores their conversation at first, but she listens in horror as one of the men says the following: "Emma come first. Den I come. Two asses, dey come together. I come again. Two asses, dey come together again. I come again and pee twice. Then I come once-a more."
"You foul-mouthed swine," retorted the lady indignantly, "in this country we don't talk about our sex lives in public!"
"Hey, coola down lady," said the man, "Imma just tellun my friend howa tospella Mississippi."

Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware and decides for you if you can copy AV files ?

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages
a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and
courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware and
decides for you if you can copy AV files ?

Graham


Phucker the troll has escaped from News:alt.binaries.chatter

I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and "farted"...

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:53:15 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

and decides for you if you can copy AV files ?

Considering I can duplicate copy protected DVDs with it, I don't think so.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

I was on a Southwest flight once that was delayed at the gate after everyone boarded. The flight attendant said over the intercom, "We're sorry for the delay. The machine that normally rips the handles off your luggage is broken, so we're having to do it by hand. We should be finished and on our way shortly."

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and "farted"...

Almost, but messier.

--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[at]pootle.demon.co.uk | http://www.pootle.demon.co.uk/

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and "farted"...



You obviously haven't smelled one after its vented.

I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and "farted"...

Onomatopoeia, I suspect... the sound of an arc striking through
foil-and-paper.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...


I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and
"farted"...

You obviously haven't smelled one after its vented.

Oh, yes I have. Not just vented, but exploded...

flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham

flipper wrote:

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

So you can look like you have more disposable income and impress fools ?

Graham

ian field wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

I think the capacitors have sharted ...

Is that a portmanteau word? Perhaps a mixture of "shorted" and "farted"...

You obviously haven't smelled one after its vented.

Ever tried 240V AC across a 250V DC electrolytic ? Typically 8-16 uF ?

Graham

flipper wrote:

snip
The problem with Linux is it's a disjointed hodgepodge that makes it
difficult for anyone less than a 'Pro' to configure.

And indeed, Linus (and/or other core kernel developers) has stated that
Linux has no roadmap, and is 'evolutionary' rather than 'designed'.
OTOH, other *nix flavors, like OpenBSD, have well-documented frameworks
and development goals.

Michael

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

Arfa

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa


Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4zFis89Kk

It's my mate's workshop. He's in the background laughing hysterically. The
'victim' is Mark, who works for him :-) There's a second one of him as
well.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa


Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4zFis89Kk

It's my mate's workshop. He's in the background laughing hysterically. The
'victim' is Mark, who works for him :-) There's a second one of him as
well.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to use.

Graham

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to use.

Graham

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote
"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa

Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

Well..... I never recall DOS crashing ! The sucks and blows reminded me of
something too. I knew a very tall stunning redhead (probably the most attractive
girl I've ever met in fact) I gave a lift home once and she kissed me on the
neck as a thank you, blowing and sucking at the same time (or so it felt). I had
to drive home carefully since my legs nearly turned to jelly !

Graham

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote
"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa

Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

Well..... I never recall DOS crashing ! The sucks and blows reminded me of
something too. I knew a very tall stunning redhead (probably the most attractive
girl I've ever met in fact) I gave a lift home once and she kissed me on the
neck as a thank you, blowing and sucking at the same time (or so it felt). I had
to drive home carefully since my legs nearly turned to jelly !

Graham

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:55:11 -0000, flipper wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:18:59 -0000, "Peter Hucker"
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:53:15 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

I didn't write that clearly. It's fine to put a new OS on old equipment, just upgrade it a little. Memory is cheap and is the main factor preventing a newer OS from functioning well.

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

You don't end up where you started, you get more features and less bugs.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

After pleading no contest to burglarizing Britney Spears's home, four men received three years of probation.
All they had to do was sign an agreement not to reveal what they stole from the house or how many batteries it took.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:55:11 -0000, flipper wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:18:59 -0000, "Peter Hucker"
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:53:15 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Meee wrote:

I was wondering why vertical mounting electrolytics have like an
indented cross on them.

To release the pressure and gunk under fault conditions (or bad
manufacture).

The reason I ask is because there's 4 largeish
one around my CPU on the motherboard and they have all split open,
along the indentations.

Oh dear.

A: How old is it ? (from date of manufacture)

B: Can you read what brands they are ?

C: Has your PC sharted behaving strangely yet ?

D: What brand mobo is it ?

E: Replace ASAP with well-known brand, low ESR (switching) types.

That is REPLACE ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST ONES THAT HAVE BLOWN TODAY


You will find a lot of info here.
http://badcaps.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice quip from the above

" From so many users, ranging from large corporate networks all the way
to the home user, the number one reason people give for wanting to
repair their hardware is they want to avoid a new system and the
disaster known as Windows Vista!

On a humorous note regarding Vista, I spoke to an IT guy who manages a
small business network for an insurance company (maintains a 100
terminal network), and had a bunch of failing Dell SX280's, which I
repaired. One branch had the brilliant idea to "upgrade" to Vista
systems, and his job was to make them all play nice with each other.
This gentleman was probably the most professional, polite, and courteous
clients I've ever spoken with on the phone, until we got onto the
subject of Vista....then the four-letter words started flowing
freely... In the end, he wiped all the Vista machines, and upgraded
them back to XP Pro."

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

I didn't write that clearly. It's fine to put a new OS on old equipment, just upgrade it a little. Memory is cheap and is the main factor preventing a newer OS from functioning well.

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

You don't end up where you started, you get more features and less bugs.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

After pleading no contest to burglarizing Britney Spears's home, four men received three years of probation.
All they had to do was sign an agreement not to reveal what they stole from the house or how many batteries it took.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:11:45 -0000, flipper wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:10:56 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:



flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

That's a viable option but don't expect all your problems to go away.
Linux just exchanges one set for another.

On the original complaint, the problem with Vista is it attempts to be
too 'user friendly' making it as difficult as possible to manually
configure.

Mac OS is like what you just said. But I've found Vista does let you override things if you need to.

The problem with Linux is it's a disjointed hodgepodge that makes it
difficult for anyone less than a 'Pro' to configure.

Agreed. Plus, it's a lot easier to stick to a popular OS, then you get more apps for it, more support, more drivers, etc, etc.

Most of the major 'free' apps (openoffice, gimp, etc) are also
available for Windows, or something similar is.

Last time I tried openoffice it was even less stable than a M$ product!

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

One of the first things you learn on your honeymoon is,
when you're carrying your bride over the threshold, always go in sideways,
unless of course two broken ankles and a concussion turn you on.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:11:45 -0000, flipper wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:10:56 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:



flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

That's a viable option but don't expect all your problems to go away.
Linux just exchanges one set for another.

On the original complaint, the problem with Vista is it attempts to be
too 'user friendly' making it as difficult as possible to manually
configure.

Mac OS is like what you just said. But I've found Vista does let you override things if you need to.

The problem with Linux is it's a disjointed hodgepodge that makes it
difficult for anyone less than a 'Pro' to configure.

Agreed. Plus, it's a lot easier to stick to a popular OS, then you get more apps for it, more support, more drivers, etc, etc.

Most of the major 'free' apps (openoffice, gimp, etc) are also
available for Windows, or something similar is.

Last time I tried openoffice it was even less stable than a M$ product!

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

One of the first things you learn on your honeymoon is,
when you're carrying your bride over the threshold, always go in sideways,
unless of course two broken ankles and a concussion turn you on.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:06:24 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa


Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4zFis89Kk

It's my mate's workshop. He's in the background laughing hysterically. The
'victim' is Mark, who works for him :-) There's a second one of him as
well.

Linked to this....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mXNp...eature=related


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:06:24 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


flipper wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

Graham


You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

Arfa


Hey Graham. I just remembered this little gem

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

See what he says about Linux towards the end ... !! While you're at it, give
yourself a good laugh by having a look at

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zO4zFis89Kk

It's my mate's workshop. He's in the background laughing hysterically. The
'victim' is Mark, who works for him :-) There's a second one of him as
well.

Linked to this....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mXNp...eature=related


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:42:06 -0000, Eeyore wrote:



Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to use.

Will it run all my Windows programs? Or will I have to get a different version (assuming it exists) of everything I now have, and may want in the future?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Do not adjust your mind - the fault is with reality.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory
is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end
up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours
will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing
to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to
use.

Graham


You know Graham, I've never been a Gates / MS / Windoze basher. A lot of the
flak that they take seems to come from people not liking the fact that they
tied the market up, and make squillions of dollars a day. OK, so maybe there
was something better than Windows just waiting to come on the market, and
maybe Gates and co did stop it by working to make Windows the dominant OS
worldwide, but looking at it the other way, it has got to have done more to
'standardise' the world of home (and business) computing, and to make it
practical and affordable to the whole world at large, than any other factor
which has had an influence. I actually admire Gates, and really couldn't
care less if his house is built from stacks of $100 bills.

As far as Windows itself goes, yes. Of course it has problems crashing and
what-have-you from time to time, but in my experience, which goes back to
the first releases of 3.1, I have found it in general to be a pretty good OS
that for the most part, does what it says on the can. Most of the people
that I know who have problems with it, and bleat loudly about what rubbish
it is, are 'tinkerers' who are always fiddling with settings that they don't
understand, or installing and uninstalling bits of dubious pedigree free
software applications that they've found on the 'net. These are the people
who always seem to be having to reformat their hard drives, or reinstal
Windows. I don't think that I have ever had to RE format an HD in my life,
nor re-install Windows on any of the many machines I've owned.

For sure, some of the patches that MS bring out to try to resolve issues,
seem to cause others, but I think that it has to be remembered that it is an
immensely complex piece of software with a million 'moving parts' - the
software equivalent of the Space Shuttle, perhaps. Many of the patches that
MS have to produce, are to plug security holes, and they wouldn't need to be
having to waste their time on this, if the world wasn't full of tow rags in
university who have little better to do with their sad lives than cause
mischief to the very people who are sponsoring them to be there, and
criminals hell bent on stealing your details and emptying your bank account.
It must be soul destroying for the Windows coders to have to keep altering
everything they write, just to try to stay one step ahead of these people.

So for all its shortcomings and foibles, I for one am glad that Windows
exists. I am glad that I can buy just about any piece of software anywhere
in the world, and it will 99.9% run as it was intended. I am glad that I can
buy just about any piece of external hardware, plug it into a USB socket,
and Windows will find it and install it with little if any intervention from
me. I am glad that I can fit just about any piece of internal hardware, and
Windows will find it, and install an appropriate driver from its own
library, or if there is not one, will happily work with one written by the
makers of that hardware.

And if for all this user-friendly functionality, I have to suffer the
occasional 'blue screen of death' then I think that's a pretty small price
to pay for the general 'always there and ready to roll' service that it
gives as an OS, for almost 100% of the time ...

Arfa

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory
is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end
up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours
will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing
to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ...
:-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to
use.

Graham


You know Graham, I've never been a Gates / MS / Windoze basher. A lot of the
flak that they take seems to come from people not liking the fact that they
tied the market up, and make squillions of dollars a day. OK, so maybe there
was something better than Windows just waiting to come on the market, and
maybe Gates and co did stop it by working to make Windows the dominant OS
worldwide, but looking at it the other way, it has got to have done more to
'standardise' the world of home (and business) computing, and to make it
practical and affordable to the whole world at large, than any other factor
which has had an influence. I actually admire Gates, and really couldn't
care less if his house is built from stacks of $100 bills.

As far as Windows itself goes, yes. Of course it has problems crashing and
what-have-you from time to time, but in my experience, which goes back to
the first releases of 3.1, I have found it in general to be a pretty good OS
that for the most part, does what it says on the can. Most of the people
that I know who have problems with it, and bleat loudly about what rubbish
it is, are 'tinkerers' who are always fiddling with settings that they don't
understand, or installing and uninstalling bits of dubious pedigree free
software applications that they've found on the 'net. These are the people
who always seem to be having to reformat their hard drives, or reinstal
Windows. I don't think that I have ever had to RE format an HD in my life,
nor re-install Windows on any of the many machines I've owned.

For sure, some of the patches that MS bring out to try to resolve issues,
seem to cause others, but I think that it has to be remembered that it is an
immensely complex piece of software with a million 'moving parts' - the
software equivalent of the Space Shuttle, perhaps. Many of the patches that
MS have to produce, are to plug security holes, and they wouldn't need to be
having to waste their time on this, if the world wasn't full of tow rags in
university who have little better to do with their sad lives than cause
mischief to the very people who are sponsoring them to be there, and
criminals hell bent on stealing your details and emptying your bank account.
It must be soul destroying for the Windows coders to have to keep altering
everything they write, just to try to stay one step ahead of these people.

So for all its shortcomings and foibles, I for one am glad that Windows
exists. I am glad that I can buy just about any piece of software anywhere
in the world, and it will 99.9% run as it was intended. I am glad that I can
buy just about any piece of external hardware, plug it into a USB socket,
and Windows will find it and install it with little if any intervention from
me. I am glad that I can fit just about any piece of internal hardware, and
Windows will find it, and install an appropriate driver from its own
library, or if there is not one, will happily work with one written by the
makers of that hardware.

And if for all this user-friendly functionality, I have to suffer the
occasional 'blue screen of death' then I think that's a pretty small price
to pay for the general 'always there and ready to roll' service that it
gives as an OS, for almost 100% of the time ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

snip

You know Graham, I've never been a Gates / MS / Windoze basher. A lot of the
flak that they take seems to come from people not liking the fact that they
tied the market up, and make squillions of dollars a day. OK, so maybe there
was something better than Windows just waiting to come on the market, and
maybe Gates and co did stop it by working to make Windows the dominant OS
worldwide, but looking at it the other way, it has got to have done more to
'standardise' the world of home (and business) computing, and to make it
practical and affordable to the whole world at large, than any other factor
which has had an influence.

It is difficult not to want to respond to this post and I hope that other
folks do express their opinions in this thread (yet another o/s religious
debate), especially those with expertise and experience in these matters,
but I would like to make a few points (briefly);

1. O/S2 should have been the 'standardized' MS o/s; it incorporated the Win3x
API but was built on a sane kernel and improved security model and its
driver structure IMHO was superior; later versions were poised to outperform
Win9x but due to the IBM departure, were relegated to business and mission critical
applications. It could have incorporated the Win9x API for compatibility.

2. Windows API emulation on Unix is a superior platform for legacy development
and maintenance as MS abandons hardware and o/s versions as a continuous-upgrade
business strategy. Virtual machine technology is also permitting retaining older
Windows installations deployed on new hardware that can't directly support them;
this wouldn't be necessary in a scalable o/s that doesn't force hardware migration
at every release.

3. Much objection to MS Windows regards the hiding of critical portions of the API
and kernel hooks to thwart third parties; also the forced inclusion of non-o/s
functionality at low levels has degraded the o/s (again in an attempt to thwart
third parties).

4. Continuous patching would not be necessary if the o/s was secure by design;
evidently NT engineering was headed by ex DEC VMS folks imported to MS - they
could have preserved the best of NT philosophy in designing the new o/s but
must have been pressured by other internal forces to release a product
insecure-by-default.

5. Yeah, I like the convenience of expecting hardware and software to 'just work'
and Windows (up to XP) provided that experience for most folks, but when push comes
to shove, I use versions of linux to identify, test and qualify hardware that Windows
doesn't quite grok. Currently I am wrestling with a system timer issue that
borks certain multimedia drivers and applications running on a rather significant
list of motherboard chipsets under NT/2K/XP; MS considers the behavior a 'feature'
whereas the rest of the world knows it is a 'bug'; fixing it will require changes
to drivers and applications, whereas it should be fixed in the kernel, and would
be done so quickly in most other operating system development and maintenance
programs (e.g. opensource).

6. Vista is a truly unfortunate step in the wrong direction - even more bloat forcing
ever more powerful hardware to just maintain a performance level of previous generations;
forced DMCA and IP protection, impossible driver restrictions, poor quality control
in releases not-ready-for-prime time, etc., etc. Folks are desperate enough to be
stocking spare machines and software to permit running earlier Windows releases
into the indefinite future since new commodity hardware now, if not in the near future,
not run them. Vista wont run a large number of apps used by folks like embedded
engineers which depend on certain types of peripheral port access, DOS windows, and
other services which have always been available in Windows.

With these sorts of issues, many people may decide to use a scalable opensource o/s
that has worldwide continuous support and development in order to preserve their
investments in software and hardware. And many of these alternatives also 'just work'
and support even more hardware than under Windows.

Michael

"msg" wrote in message
ernet...
4. Continuous patching would not be necessary if the o/s was secure by
design;

Hmm... you know, my Linux boxes want to download security updates pretty much
weekly these days too...

evidently NT engineering was headed by ex DEC VMS folks imported to MS

It was, Dave Cutler.

- they
could have preserved the best of NT philosophy in designing the new o/s but
must have been pressured by other internal forces to release a product
insecure-by-default.

It's called, "marketing." At the time that the first consumer-target version
of NT was released -- either Win2K or WinXP -- the average consumer was not
yet ready to be asked for passwords to do anything "potentially" damaging.
Microsoft didn't want to risk lost sales due to people objecting to a proper
security model....

6. Vista is a truly unfortunate step in the wrong direction

Well, yes, most people -- even many within Microsoft -- agree on that.

---Joel

"msg" wrote in message
ernet...
4. Continuous patching would not be necessary if the o/s was secure by
design;

Hmm... you know, my Linux boxes want to download security updates pretty much
weekly these days too...

evidently NT engineering was headed by ex DEC VMS folks imported to MS

It was, Dave Cutler.

- they
could have preserved the best of NT philosophy in designing the new o/s but
must have been pressured by other internal forces to release a product
insecure-by-default.

It's called, "marketing." At the time that the first consumer-target version
of NT was released -- either Win2K or WinXP -- the average consumer was not
yet ready to be asked for passwords to do anything "potentially" damaging.
Microsoft didn't want to risk lost sales due to people objecting to a proper
security model....

6. Vista is a truly unfortunate step in the wrong direction

Well, yes, most people -- even many within Microsoft -- agree on that.

---Joel

Peter Hucker wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
flipper wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:

Maybe he is ioncompetant. I have zero problems with Vista.

Aside from the fact it runs slower than XP on the same hardware

You're not supposed to put newer software on old equipment. Memory is
cheap, just add some.

So much for Microsoft's marketing strategy of selling upgrade
versions, eh?

Under your theory, what is the point of buying faster hardware to run
slower software so you end up where you started?

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Pay more for worse.

When the opportunity arises I'd like to convert whatever company I end up
as Senior Designer for
again (or better) to Linux. Free O/S, free Apps.

You can try this 'conversion' Graham, but I fear that your endeavours will
fail due to many of the staff - particularly the female ones - refusing to
grow a beard, wear open-toed sandals, and ride a bike to work ... :-)

I've done a trial Ubuntu install. Seemed little different to Windows to use.

Will it run all my Windows programs? Or will I have to get a different version (assuming it exists) of everything I now have, and may want in the future?

Didn't get as far as trying WINE. I needed the PC for something else.

Graham