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using creosote - legal?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 28th 04, 09:59 PM
Brian Reay
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Default using creosote - legal?


"dave" wrote in message
...
I remember reading somewhere that the use of creosote for wooden fence
preservative is now illegal. Is this true? The neighbours here are using

the
stuff to "do" their fences again - and of course tell me (again) that this

stuff
makes the wood last for years. Which is why they seem to do it every five

minute
no doubt!

Also they mix in used engine oil - which I know is horrible stuff. When it

rains
I can see the rainsdrops turn yellow as they run down the wood.

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many preservatives

that
are easily obtainable. Of course, that has the makings of a war - with me
telling them what to do to their own fence (no matter how nicely I put

it).
Maybe I could have a quiet word with some "anti-pollution agency"/environ.
agency or something?


You can still buy real creosote- just not in small quantities, so I assume
that it is still legal to use it.

What is your objection? OK, smells a bit for awhile but it keeps the moggies
away. The scope for polution is minimal- in real terms how often do people
creosote their fence?

Like your neighbours, I'm totally unconvinced any of the replacement
products are any good.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898


Ads
  #2  
Old September 28th 04, 11:11 PM
Dave Liquorice
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:54:19 GMT, dave wrote:

Ah, just found this...


Interesting, looks like the replacements really are crap as if you
need to seriously protect a bit of wood (sleepers, telephone poles,
harbours, waterways, even tree stakes) then you can still use it.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



  #3  
Old September 28th 04, 11:37 PM
Peter Andrews
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Posts: n/a
Default


"dave" wrote in message
...
I remember reading somewhere that the use of creosote for wooden fence
preservative is now illegal. Is this true? The neighbours here are using

the
stuff to "do" their fences again - and of course tell me (again) that this

stuff
makes the wood last for years. Which is why they seem to do it every five

minute
no doubt!

Also they mix in used engine oil - which I know is horrible stuff. When it

rains
I can see the rainsdrops turn yellow as they run down the wood.

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many preservatives

that
are easily obtainable. Of course, that has the makings of a war - with me
telling them what to do to their own fence (no matter how nicely I put

it).
Maybe I could have a quiet word with some "anti-pollution agency"/environ.
agency or something?


About 25 years ago I sprayed a fence with creosote using a compressor and
spray gun and then looked round to see a 'Stephen King Fog' enveloping a
neighbours washing and moving down the road - never sprayed it again!!


  #4  
Old September 28th 04, 11:56 PM
Sparks
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Posts: n/a
Default

About 25 years ago I sprayed a fence with creosote using a compressor and
spray gun and then looked round to see a 'Stephen King Fog' enveloping a
neighbours washing and moving down the road - never sprayed it again!!


A mate of mine did the same thing at some time, except he then realised the
line of cars outside the house were all covered in it!!


Sparks...


  #5  
Old September 29th 04, 12:25 AM
Ian Stirling
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Posts: n/a
Default

dave wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:59:35 +0100, "Brian Reay"
wrote:


"dave" wrote in message
. ..
I remember reading somewhere that the use of creosote for wooden fence
preservative is now illegal. Is this true? The neighbours here are using

the
stuff to "do" their fences again - and of course tell me (again) that this

stuff
makes the wood last for years. Which is why they seem to do it every five

minute
no doubt!

Also they mix in used engine oil - which I know is horrible stuff. When it

rains
I can see the rainsdrops turn yellow as they run down the wood.

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many preservatives

that
are easily obtainable. Of course, that has the makings of a war - with me
telling them what to do to their own fence (no matter how nicely I put

it).
Maybe I could have a quiet word with some "anti-pollution agency"/environ.
agency or something?


You can still buy real creosote- just not in small quantities, so I assume
that it is still legal to use it.

What is your objection?


It's carcinogenic. Please see my follow-up link.


Unless you habitually chew the fence, there is unlikely to be a measurable
risk.
  #6  
Old September 29th 04, 01:03 AM
Paul
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Posts: n/a
Default

dave wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:59:35 +0100, "Brian Reay"
wrote:

What is your objection?



It's carcinogenic. Please see my follow-up link.


That's not a particularly accurate view, which is strongly contested.

It is true, that creosote naturally contains a minute amount of
benzo-a-pyrene, amongst other chemicals.

To put it in perspective though, cigarette smoke contains a considerably
greater proportion of it, and studies show that even for heavy smokers
most ingestion is actually dietary.

Benzo-a-pyrene is typically formed as a combustion product, and as such
finds it's way into the diet through vegetable matter that has taken it
up from the soil, and from food cooked at high temperatures. (Like your
barbecued/burnt burgers etc.)

That benzo-a-pyrene and other polycyclic aromatics have carcinogenic
tendencies is accepted, but the EU decision to declare benzo-a-pyrene
such an increased danger, was based on just one poorly conducted study
that didn't even address human epidemiology at all, and does not
correlate with other previous evidence. (It is a matter for conjecture
whether the nanny superstate just blindly accepted the results because
it also suits their anti-smoking stance.)

But back to creosote, centuries of experience have shown no evidence of
any noticeable carcinogenic risk among workers with even relatively high
occupational exposures. That is not to say it is an innocuous substance
- after all it is used as a preservative because of it's bio toxicity,
and there are good reasons for avoiding unnecessary prolonged contact
with it, and not using treated timber in inappropriate places. (The same
goes for most other effective preservatives, CCA for example.) However,
it doesn't kill wood boring insects by giving them cancer!

Even if there was a genuine case for further restricting exposure,
making criminals of ordinary folk for occasionally brushing a bit
creosote on their fences and sheds rather than addressing the safety of
those with significant levels of occupational exposure is just farcical.

--
Paul
  #7  
Old September 29th 04, 01:13 AM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

dave wrote:

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many preservatives that
are easily obtainable.


For 'amateur use' these days, you get 'new formula creosote' easily from
the sheds. The only difference being it's been distilled differently and
it doesn't work quite as well! Only way of telling the difference
(without chemical analysis) is by what it says on the tin. Still has a
certain odour though!

--
Paul
  #8  
Old September 29th 04, 03:00 AM
Paul King
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

dave wrote:
I remember reading somewhere that the use of creosote for wooden fence
preservative is now illegal. Is this true? The neighbours here are
using the stuff to "do" their fences again - and of course tell me
(again) that this stuff makes the wood last for years. Which is why
they seem to do it every five minute no doubt!

Also they mix in used engine oil - which I know is horrible stuff.
When it rains I can see the rainsdrops turn yellow as they run down
the wood.

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many
preservatives that are easily obtainable. Of course, that has the
makings of a war - with me telling them what to do to their own fence
(no matter how nicely I put it). Maybe I could have a quiet word with
some "anti-pollution agency"/environ. agency or something?


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone on this thread has said
about the pro's and con's of using Creosote. It's use (for your average Joe)
is now illegal and punishable by a hefty fine and/or imprisonment.

It's use (in any quantity) is only available to licencees (and D-I-Y Joe
won't get one). This is partly because of the Nanny state we live in whereby
we have to be protected from ourselves because we can no longer use common
sense. (We can't reed and we can't rite so we'll just splodge it all over
the place with little care for the environment nor our health and safety).

However, there is an almost equivalent product on the market which goes by
the name of Creosate! This *IS* legal, and is the replacement for Creosote.
Whether it preserves as well waits to be seen, but by all accounts it still
stinks to high heaven - and could (just) be the stuff your heighbours are
using. Tread carefully therefore before you shoot yourself in the foot!
--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address


  #9  
Old September 29th 04, 10:12 AM
Bob Mannix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Paul King" wrote in message
news:1096419636.utcL6xnQfMp3SVC0/VHVWQ@teranews...
dave wrote:
I remember reading somewhere that the use of creosote for wooden fence
preservative is now illegal. Is this true? The neighbours here are
using the stuff to "do" their fences again - and of course tell me
(again) that this stuff makes the wood last for years. Which is why
they seem to do it every five minute no doubt!

Also they mix in used engine oil - which I know is horrible stuff.
When it rains I can see the rainsdrops turn yellow as they run down
the wood.

Even if it is legal, I wish they would use one of the many
preservatives that are easily obtainable. Of course, that has the
makings of a war - with me telling them what to do to their own fence
(no matter how nicely I put it). Maybe I could have a quiet word with
some "anti-pollution agency"/environ. agency or something?


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone on this thread has

said
about the pro's and con's of using Creosote. It's use (for your average

Joe)
is now illegal and punishable by a hefty fine and/or imprisonment.

It's use (in any quantity) is only available to licencees (and D-I-Y Joe
won't get one). This is partly because of the Nanny state we live in

whereby
we have to be protected from ourselves because we can no longer use common
sense. (We can't reed and we can't rite so we'll just splodge it all over
the place with little care for the environment nor our health and safety).

However, there is an almost equivalent product on the market which goes by
the name of Creosate! This *IS* legal, and is the replacement for

Creosote.
Whether it preserves as well waits to be seen, but by all accounts it

still
stinks to high heaven - and could (just) be the stuff your heighbours are
using. Tread carefully therefore before you shoot yourself in the foot!


Just taken delivery of "claer wood preserver" from Screwfix (see other
thread). Smells remarkably like creosote.

Quite like the smell occasionally myself. Never quite got round to using
old engine oil on a fence, I must say.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address




  #10  
Old September 29th 04, 11:39 AM
sPoNiX
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:59:35 +0100, "Brian Reay"
wrote:

You can still buy real creosote- just not in small quantities, so I assume
that it is still legal to use it.


It is only legal for professional use. It is totally illegal now for a
DIYer to buy, or use, creosote.

sPoniX



 




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