[John Rumm]

A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Adrian Brentnall[_2_]]

On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way into
the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Regards
Adrian

[Andy Dingley]

On Friday, 27 July 2012 20:30:25 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?

The sealant for new leaded glass is just chalk whiting and linseed oil - like an extremely thin putty. At the same time, a mechanical caulking of the lead flange by rubbing it down with a bone. However it's also recognised that doing this to old (brittle) lead is a bit of a fruitless task. In many cases, by the time the window has got to the stage of leaking, it's actually doing this through cracked joints in the lead. The only real solution at this point is to strip the glass apart and rebuild the panel with new lead (not actually too expensive, compared to cutting glass for a new panel).

Captain Tolley's is good stuff though, and worth a try.

[Ian Jackson[_2_]]

In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way into
the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Would wood hardener be any good as the creeping sealant?
--
Ian

[John Rumm]

On 27/07/2012 21:23, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

Yup pretty sure they are real... however, can't see the idea of taking
out the front room windows for a strip down and rebuild going down well!

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way into
the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

Ah, now that looks like it might do the trick. Thanks.

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Regards
Adrian



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Adrian Brentnall[_2_]]

On 28/07/2012 00:01, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way
into the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Would wood hardener be any good as the creeping sealant?

HI Ian
The Ronseal stuff ?
Might do - but the Captain Tolleys is designed to be very 'thin' and
wick into any gaps it finds.

The other things I forgot to say were
- beg/steal/borrow a small syringe with a non-pointed needle, and use
that to get the product where it needs to be
- expect to make two or three repeated applications
- wipe off the stuff immediately if / when it goes where it shouldn't,
as it can cause staining of the lead and the glass

Much easier if you can get the offending panels out and flat... but
still do-able of you can't...

As Andy says, it's not as good a solution as doing it the 'proper' way -
but it's still effective...

Adrian

[Ian Jackson[_2_]]

In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 28/07/2012 00:01, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way
into the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Would wood hardener be any good as the creeping sealant?

HI Ian
The Ronseal stuff ?
Might do - but the Captain Tolleys is designed to be very 'thin' and
wick into any gaps it finds.

The other things I forgot to say were
- beg/steal/borrow a small syringe with a non-pointed needle, and use
that to get the product where it needs to be

At last I've found an application for all those syringes I've amassed
from all the printer ink refill kits I've bought!

- expect to make two or three repeated applications
- wipe off the stuff immediately if / when it goes where it shouldn't,
as it can cause staining of the lead and the glass

Much easier if you can get the offending panels out and flat... but
still do-able of you can't...

As Andy says, it's not as good a solution as doing it the 'proper' way -
but it's still effective...

I've always been a perfectionist, which has meant that there have been
many DIY jobs that I have 'never got around to', because I knew they
would take too long.

However, in later life, I have eventually learned that a well-planned
and well-executed 'kludge' (if that's the word) is often more than
satisfactory, and will probably more than see me out.
--
Ian

[Adrian Brentnall[_2_]]

On 28/07/2012 08:18, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 28/07/2012 00:01, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
On 27/07/2012 20:30, John Rumm wrote:
A mate of mine has original crittal windows (1930's metal frame
single
glazed) with real lead lite Georgian style panes. Recently in some of
the driving torrential downpours, it has started leaking apparently
through the pane joints.

Is there a recommended / easy way to restore a seal to these?


HI John
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

However - that's a lot of work.

A 'quick & dirty' (but surprisingly effective) solution, where time,
budget etc doesn't allow the 'proper' solution is this stuff

http://www.captaintolley.com/

which is a very thin crack-seeking sealant, that will find its way
into the existing putty and, once set, will form an effective seal...

It'll probably need several applications, until no more is absorbed.

I've used this on church windows, where sections have been repaired /
replaced, but there's no budget to replace the whole window.

Would wood hardener be any good as the creeping sealant?

HI Ian
The Ronseal stuff ?
Might do - but the Captain Tolleys is designed to be very 'thin' and
wick into any gaps it finds.

The other things I forgot to say were
- beg/steal/borrow a small syringe with a non-pointed needle, and use
that to get the product where it needs to be

At last I've found an application for all those syringes I've amassed
from all the printer ink refill kits I've bought!

Ideal!
Can't remember what the solvent is for the Captain's stuff - but you'll
want to wash the syringes out between applications as otherwise they'll
seal solid!


- expect to make two or three repeated applications
- wipe off the stuff immediately if / when it goes where it shouldn't,
as it can cause staining of the lead and the glass

Much easier if you can get the offending panels out and flat... but
still do-able of you can't...

As Andy says, it's not as good a solution as doing it the 'proper' way -
but it's still effective...

I've always been a perfectionist, which has meant that there have been
many DIY jobs that I have 'never got around to', because I knew they
would take too long.

Yes - I know what you mean


However, in later life, I have eventually learned that a well-planned
and well-executed 'kludge' (if that's the word) is often more than
satisfactory, and will probably more than see me out.

Amen!
Take it gently with the Tolleys and you'll be fine.
The bottle comes with an applicator nozzle - but it's far too 'fast' for
your application & you'll end up with it everywhere!

Good luck
Adrian

[Andy Dingley]

On Saturday, 28 July 2012 01:40:14 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

Yup pretty sure they are real... however, can't see the idea of taking
out the front room windows for a strip down and rebuild going down well!

One thing that _doesn't_ work is trying to re-solder lead joints in old lead. If you do have cracked joints, then either live with them, or rebuild the whole panel on new lead. Trying to re-solder a failed joint in an old panel is near impossible.

[NT[_2_]]

On 28 July, 10:22, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2012 01:40:14 UTC+1, John Rumm *wrote:
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

Yup pretty sure they are real... however, can't see the idea of taking
out the front room windows for a strip down and rebuild going down well!

One thing that _doesn't_ work is trying to re-solder lead joints in old lead. If you do have cracked joints, then either live with them, or rebuild the whole panel on new lead. Trying to re-solder a failed joint in an old panel is near impossible.

Resoldering oxidised metal certainly is. Would it not work ok if cut
with a knife each side of the crack, to expose clean lead?


NT

[Adrian Brentnall[_2_]]

On 29/07/2012 00:16, NT wrote:
On 28 July, 10:22, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2012 01:40:14 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
If they're really 'real' leaded panes then the proper way to fix them
would be to dismantle them & re-make them.

Yup pretty sure they are real... however, can't see the idea of taking
out the front room windows for a strip down and rebuild going down well!

One thing that _doesn't_ work is trying to re-solder lead joints in old lead. If you do have cracked joints, then either live with them, or rebuild the whole panel on new lead. Trying to re-solder a failed joint in an old panel is near impossible.

Resoldering oxidised metal certainly is. Would it not work ok if cut
with a knife each side of the crack, to expose clean lead?


NT

Trouble is , you very quickly get into 'diminishing returns'

Ideally, you want a nice 'butt joint' between the two pieces of lead
before soldering.

If you have any significant gaps (more than a couple of mm) then you'll
find that the solder will 'neck' in and look terrible. Again, in an
ideal situation, you want solder to stick to the flat surface of the
lead came. Andy's right, no amount of wire-brushing / sandpapering /
wire-wool work will be effective.

It's another step into the land of bodgery grin - but I've had some
success with the two-part 'liquid metal' epoxies, which, once set, are
pretty much indistinguishable from the original lead - and can hold
things together if there's no funding for a 'textbook' (remove,
dismantle, re-lead, re-putty, refit) strategy...
Not ideal, but better than having the rain come in!

I'm seeing a few of these recently - mid-1800's church windows, exposed
to salty sea-air and the odd football / stepladder or, in one case, a
flying pumpkin (it was Halloween!)

Adrian