[Richard[_12_]]

I've traced the wiring and it's he

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...RY/boiler.html

I want to know, is this circuit a correct one? Are there any errors in it?

I don't understand the thing with the two black wires from the boiler.
I've disconnected, and never made a note of which black wire went where.
I thought it did not matter. since both are black.

Boiler is VOKERA "Pinnacle 16".
--------

Vokera "Pinnacle 16" Schematic

If I have not made a mistake, this is how my VOKERA "Pinnacle 16" was
wired up.

In the Installation and Service Instructions, an example of the "S Plan
System" is given. It is not like this schematic.

In the Service Instructions, the two switches inside the motorised
actuators (Danfoss HPA2) are wired in parallel, but both wires (orange -
grey) just go into the boiler (to M7, pins 2 & 3).

The boiler has 5 wires going into it, 3 for mains (L N E) and two wires
- both coloured black.

Here you see that the two switches inside the actuators are both in
parallel, but live at one end, and the other (orange wires) goes to a
black wire into the bolier.

On this schematic, tracing the other black wire from the boiler, it goes
onto pins 2 & 5, of the Danfoss SET 3A timer. Pin 1 (Water ON) goes to
the cylinder (water) stat, then through the water actuator motor, then
to Neutral. Pin 4(Heater ON) goes through the Room Stat, then through
the heater actuator motor, then to Neutral.

There is no link connecting the Live wire, in the timer, to any of the
pins numbered 1 to 6. Presumably the Live potential is coming from the
boiler -out of the black wire.

Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.

Because of the problem with the black wires coming from the boiler, I
don't understand this circuit. I don't know what the black wires go to
in the boiler or what they supply. Anybody know?

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 11:40, Richard wrote:


What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must connect
the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.

Of course, via timer, to thermostats.

[Dave Osborne[_2_]]

Richard wrote:

Because of the problem with the black wires coming from the boiler, I
don't understand this circuit. I don't know what the black wires go to
in the boiler or what they supply. Anybody know?


I'm not an expert on system boilers, but I suspect that your boiler has
permanent live and two switched lives - one calling for pump and one
calling for heat. Certainly, your schematic does not show the pump.
There may well be pump overrun built into the boiler as well. You must
not get these signals the wrong way round!

[Andy Burns[_7_]]

Richard wrote:

I've traced the wiring

No room for a wiring centre in there to tidy up that exposed rat's nest?

e.g.
http://img-europe.electrocomponents....R200134-01.jpg

[Adrian C]

On 07/05/2010 12:10, Andy Burns wrote:
Richard wrote:

I've traced the wiring

No room for a wiring centre in there to tidy up that exposed rat's nest?

e.g.
http://img-europe.electrocomponents....R200134-01.jpg


Above less than a fiver on eBay. Just ordered one to tidy up my own rats
nest. Thanks for that post!

--
Adrian C

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:
I've traced the wiring and it's he

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...RY/boiler.html

I want to know, is this circuit a correct one? Are there any errors
in it?
I don't understand the thing with the two black wires from the boiler.
I've disconnected, and never made a note of which black wire went
where. I thought it did not matter. since both are black.

Boiler is VOKERA "Pinnacle 16".
--------

Vokera "Pinnacle 16" Schematic

If I have not made a mistake, this is how my VOKERA "Pinnacle 16" was
wired up.

In the Installation and Service Instructions, an example of the "S
Plan System" is given. It is not like this schematic.


Your schematic and the S-Plan diagram in the boiler installation manual are
*essentially* the same - it's just that the detailed implementation is
slightly different.

The essential characteristic of S-Plan is that each actuator motor is fed
from the programmer via its respective thermostat, and the auxialliary
contacts are wired in parallel - with one side having a permanent live feed
and the other side connected to the boiler's switched live demand. Both
diagrams show this - the only difference being where the permanent live feed
comes from. In yours, it comes from the heating control switch and in
Vokera's it comes form M7/2 on the boiler which - if you look at Fig 31 in
Section 8.1 of the manual, is almost certainly permanently live.

In the Service Instructions, the two switches inside the motorised
actuators (Danfoss HPA2) are wired in parallel, but both wires
(orange - grey) just go into the boiler (to M7, pins 2 & 3).


In both cases, the two orange wires are connected to M7/3 - which is pretty
certainly the demand for heat.

The boiler has 5 wires going into it, 3 for mains (L N E) and two
wires - both coloured black.

Here you see that the two switches inside the actuators are both in
parallel, but live at one end, and the other (orange wires) goes to a
black wire into the bolier.


Yes, as above, this must go to M7/3


On this schematic, tracing the other black wire from the boiler, it
goes onto pins 2 & 5, of the Danfoss SET 3A timer. Pin 1 (Water ON)
goes to the cylinder (water) stat, then through the water actuator
motor, then to Neutral. Pin 4(Heater ON) goes through the Room Stat, then
through
the heater actuator motor, then to Neutral.

There is no link connecting the Live wire, in the timer, to any of the
pins numbered 1 to 6. Presumably the Live potential is coming from the
boiler -out of the black wire.


That bit's a complete mystery to me! That other black wire is almost
certainly a live feed to the switching contacts in the programmer - but I
haven't a clue why the main live feed to the programmer isn't used instead.
Where on the boiler does that black wire connect?


Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the actuators
definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about that. As far as the
other one is concerned, I would be inclined to get rid of it and connect 2
and 5 to L internally in the timer.



If you get rid of the tank, you will only have one zone - so you can get rid
of the motorised zone valves too. If you do that, the output from the room
stat will then need to go directly to boiler demand M7/3. [You can probably
get rid of the bypass circuit too, as long as there will always be at least
one radiator open].

Having said all that, getting rid of the tank still seems a strange thing to
be doing. Don't you need any hot water for bathing/showering, etc.? If you
*do*, where are you going to get it from?
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[ARWadsworth]

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:
I've traced the wiring and it's he

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...RY/boiler.html

I want to know, is this circuit a correct one? Are there any errors
in it?
I don't understand the thing with the two black wires from the boiler.
I've disconnected, and never made a note of which black wire went
where. I thought it did not matter. since both are black.

Boiler is VOKERA "Pinnacle 16".
--------

Vokera "Pinnacle 16" Schematic

If I have not made a mistake, this is how my VOKERA "Pinnacle 16" was
wired up.

In the Installation and Service Instructions, an example of the "S
Plan System" is given. It is not like this schematic.


Your schematic and the S-Plan diagram in the boiler installation manual
are *essentially* the same - it's just that the detailed implementation is
slightly different.

The essential characteristic of S-Plan is that each actuator motor is fed
from the programmer via its respective thermostat, and the auxialliary
contacts are wired in parallel - with one side having a permanent live
feed and the other side connected to the boiler's switched live demand.
Both diagrams show this - the only difference being where the permanent
live feed comes from. In yours, it comes from the heating control switch
and in Vokera's it comes form M7/2 on the boiler which - if you look at
Fig 31 in Section 8.1 of the manual, is almost certainly permanently live.

In the Service Instructions, the two switches inside the motorised
actuators (Danfoss HPA2) are wired in parallel, but both wires
(orange - grey) just go into the boiler (to M7, pins 2 & 3).


In both cases, the two orange wires are connected to M7/3 - which is
pretty certainly the demand for heat.

The boiler has 5 wires going into it, 3 for mains (L N E) and two
wires - both coloured black.

Here you see that the two switches inside the actuators are both in
parallel, but live at one end, and the other (orange wires) goes to a
black wire into the bolier.


Yes, as above, this must go to M7/3


On this schematic, tracing the other black wire from the boiler, it
goes onto pins 2 & 5, of the Danfoss SET 3A timer. Pin 1 (Water ON)
goes to the cylinder (water) stat, then through the water actuator
motor, then to Neutral. Pin 4(Heater ON) goes through the Room Stat, then
through
the heater actuator motor, then to Neutral.

There is no link connecting the Live wire, in the timer, to any of the
pins numbered 1 to 6. Presumably the Live potential is coming from the
boiler -out of the black wire.


That bit's a complete mystery to me! That other black wire is almost
certainly a live feed to the switching contacts in the programmer - but I
haven't a clue why the main live feed to the programmer isn't used
instead. Where on the boiler does that black wire connect?


Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the actuators
definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about that. As far as
the other one is concerned, I would be inclined to get rid of it and
connect 2 and 5 to L internally in the timer.



If you get rid of the tank, you will only have one zone - so you can get
rid of the motorised zone valves too. If you do that, the output from the
room stat will then need to go directly to boiler demand M7/3. [You can
probably get rid of the bypass circuit too, as long as there will always
be at least one radiator open].

Having said all that, getting rid of the tank still seems a strange thing
to be doing. Don't you need any hot water for bathing/showering, etc.? If
you *do*, where are you going to get it from?
--
Cheers,
Roger


Seconded. And your reply was very good Roger.

But a query about the bypass valve. Should an automatic bypass open up as
some of the TRVs close down in the system and help keep the pump from
running under excess load?

Cheers

Adam

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, ARWadsworth
wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:
I've traced the wiring and it's he

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...RY/boiler.html

I want to know, is this circuit a correct one? Are there any errors
in it?
I don't understand the thing with the two black wires from the
boiler. I've disconnected, and never made a note of which black
wire went where. I thought it did not matter. since both are black.

Boiler is VOKERA "Pinnacle 16".
--------

Vokera "Pinnacle 16" Schematic

If I have not made a mistake, this is how my VOKERA "Pinnacle 16"
was wired up.

In the Installation and Service Instructions, an example of the "S
Plan System" is given. It is not like this schematic.


Your schematic and the S-Plan diagram in the boiler installation
manual are *essentially* the same - it's just that the detailed
implementation is slightly different.

The essential characteristic of S-Plan is that each actuator motor
is fed from the programmer via its respective thermostat, and the
auxialliary contacts are wired in parallel - with one side having a
permanent live feed and the other side connected to the boiler's
switched live demand. Both diagrams show this - the only difference
being where the permanent live feed comes from. In yours, it comes
from the heating control switch and in Vokera's it comes form M7/2
on the boiler which - if you look at Fig 31 in Section 8.1 of the
manual, is almost certainly permanently live.
In the Service Instructions, the two switches inside the motorised
actuators (Danfoss HPA2) are wired in parallel, but both wires
(orange - grey) just go into the boiler (to M7, pins 2 & 3).


In both cases, the two orange wires are connected to M7/3 - which is
pretty certainly the demand for heat.

The boiler has 5 wires going into it, 3 for mains (L N E) and two
wires - both coloured black.

Here you see that the two switches inside the actuators are both in
parallel, but live at one end, and the other (orange wires) goes to
a black wire into the bolier.


Yes, as above, this must go to M7/3


On this schematic, tracing the other black wire from the boiler, it
goes onto pins 2 & 5, of the Danfoss SET 3A timer. Pin 1 (Water ON)
goes to the cylinder (water) stat, then through the water actuator
motor, then to Neutral. Pin 4(Heater ON) goes through the Room
Stat, then through
the heater actuator motor, then to Neutral.

There is no link connecting the Live wire, in the timer, to any of
the pins numbered 1 to 6. Presumably the Live potential is coming
from the boiler -out of the black wire.


That bit's a complete mystery to me! That other black wire is almost
certainly a live feed to the switching contacts in the programmer -
but I haven't a clue why the main live feed to the programmer isn't
used instead. Where on the boiler does that black wire connect?


Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to
tell which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you
must connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the
actuators definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about
that. As far as the other one is concerned, I would be inclined to
get rid of it and connect 2 and 5 to L internally in the timer.



If you get rid of the tank, you will only have one zone - so you can
get rid of the motorised zone valves too. If you do that, the output
from the room stat will then need to go directly to boiler demand
M7/3. [You can probably get rid of the bypass circuit too, as long
as there will always be at least one radiator open].

Having said all that, getting rid of the tank still seems a strange
thing to be doing. Don't you need any hot water for
bathing/showering, etc.? If you *do*, where are you going to get it
from? --
Cheers,
Roger


Seconded. And your reply was very good Roger.


Thank you, kind sir!

I *hope* I got it right, but I was a bit worried after writing it when I
delved a bit deeper into the installation manual. That describes the plug M7
as "Low voltage connector (heat request)" - but I was recommending feeding
mains back to Pin 3 on it. However, unless *all* the external kit (motorised
valves - including 3-port valve for Y-Plan, stats, etc.) shown in the
diagrams work on low voltage, M7 *must* have mains on it.

Can anyone clarify?


But a query about the bypass valve. Should an automatic bypass open
up as some of the TRVs close down in the system and help keep the
pump from running under excess load?


Possibly. An even better option would be a smart pump - but since this is a
system boiler, presumably with an internal pump, the user probably doesn't
get to specify the pump.

My point really was that, in the absense of zone valves, there will[1]
always be an open flow path to allow pump over-run to operate without
needing a bypass valve.

[1] providing not all rads have TRVs
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 16:28, Roger Mills wrote:

Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the actuators
definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about that. As far as the
other one is concerned, I would be inclined to get rid of it and connect 2
and 5 to L internally in the timer.


I looked inside the boiler and I saw that the black wires go to M7 (2) &
(3).

I've marked M7 (2), so I know, when I reconnect everything, just where
that black wire goes, and of course where the other black wire goes.

That's the situation confirmed about the black wires. Don't know if this
helps.

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 20:30, Richard wrote:
On 07/05/2010 16:28, Roger Mills wrote:

Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the
actuators
definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about that. As far
as the
other one is concerned, I would be inclined to get rid of it and
connect 2
and 5 to L internally in the timer.


I looked inside the boiler and I saw that the black wires go to M7 (2) &
(3).

I've marked M7 (2), so I know, when I reconnect everything, just where
that black wire goes, and of course where the other black wire goes.

That's the situation confirmed about the black wires. Don't know if this
helps.

I'm strugglimg to know why M7 (2) and M7 (3) are both black wires! :c)

[ARWadsworth]

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...


SNIP


Seconded. And your reply was very good Roger.


Thank you, kind sir!

I *hope* I got it right, but I was a bit worried after writing it when I
delved a bit deeper into the installation manual. That describes the plug
M7 as "Low voltage connector (heat request)" - but I was recommending
feeding mains back to Pin 3 on it. However, unless *all* the external kit
(motorised valves - including 3-port valve for Y-Plan, stats, etc.) shown
in the diagrams work on low voltage, M7 *must* have mains on it.

Can anyone clarify?


Not an independent view I know, but I got in from work at 4.30, fed the cats
and downloaded
http://vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/pinnacle_installation_and_servicing_instructions.p df

On diagram 8.1 Fig 31 I saw the S plan. A small deviation from the "standard
Y plan". But it is the same as I have fitted to a combi with an S plan
(don't ask Drivel).

Then I saw fig 32A. QED.

The final proof was fig 34. Control of time clock and room thermostat
rated at 230V ac.

All I had to write was seconded. You had done all the work:-)


But a query about the bypass valve. Should an automatic bypass open
up as some of the TRVs close down in the system and help keep the
pump from running under excess load?


Possibly. An even better option would be a smart pump - but since this is
a system boiler, presumably with an internal pump, the user probably
doesn't get to specify the pump.

My point really was that, in the absense of zone valves, there will[1]
always be an open flow path to allow pump over-run to operate without
needing a bypass valve.

[1] providing not all rads have TRVs


The bypass is a
http://www.myson.co.uk/products/1207_1625_ENU_HTML.htm
according to the OPs previous posts.

Point [1] taken into account.

As for removing the hot water then the mind boggles. But it is still a free
country and the OP can do that if he wants.

Cheers

Adam

[ARWadsworth]

"Richard" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2010 20:30, Richard wrote:
On 07/05/2010 16:28, Roger Mills wrote:

Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

What I don't understand is these black wires. There is no way to tell
which black wire should be connected to what. I believe you must
connect the right black wire to the switches or the thermostat.


The black wire which is connected to the two orange wires in the
actuators
definitely needs to go to M7/3 - there is no doubt about that. As far
as the
other one is concerned, I would be inclined to get rid of it and
connect 2
and 5 to L internally in the timer.


I looked inside the boiler and I saw that the black wires go to M7 (2) &
(3).

I've marked M7 (2), so I know, when I reconnect everything, just where
that black wire goes, and of course where the other black wire goes.

That's the situation confirmed about the black wires. Don't know if this
helps.

I'm strugglimg to know why M7 (2) and M7 (3) are both black wires! :c)

It would have had a black link wire between M7 (2) and M7 (3) when the
boiler was brand new. It is there to confuse people.

Adam

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 16:28, Roger Mills wrote:


The essential characteristic of S-Plan is that each actuator motor is fed
from the programmer via its respective thermostat, and the auxialliary
contacts are wired in parallel - with one side having a permanent live feed
and the other side connected to the boiler's switched live demand. Both
diagrams show this - the only difference being where the permanent live feed
comes from. In yours, it comes from the heating control switch and in
Vokera's it comes form M7/2 on the boiler which - if you look at Fig 31 in
Section 8.1 of the manual, is almost certainly permanently live.

Lets take the auxiliary contacts: They need to be fed by a permanent
live feed, and the other side goes to M7/3, which is the demand for heat.

gotcha! :c)


There is no link connecting the Live wire, in the timer, to any of the
pins numbered 1 to 6. Presumably the Live potential is coming from the
boiler -out of the black wire.


That bit's a complete mystery to me! That other black wire is almost
certainly a live feed to the switching contacts in the programmer - but I
haven't a clue why the main live feed to the programmer isn't used instead.
Where on the boiler does that black wire connect?

Is the schematic I've drawn out correct?

Probably, but the feed to the progammer remains a mystery.

M7/2 MUST be a permanent live feed. As you basically surmise. Really,
what is happening is this: Your regular heating engineer would feed the
auxiliary contacts with a permant live feed from M7/2. The permanent
live feed for the timer switch contacts would come from the heating
controls switch.

But in this case the installers reversed the permanent live feeds.
Taking the timer live feed from M7/2, and the auxiliary contacts live
feed from the heating controls switch.

As you probably realised, but I've just. :c)

What MUST be the case, is that the installer HAD TO KNOW which black
wire went to where. Otherwise chances of working were 50/50. :c)

I think I got it now, and feel confident the schematic is as the system
was wired before I removed all the wiring connections.

I'm now going to wire it up again.

I've learned something. :c)

Thanks a lot all. Rich

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 17:02, ARWadsworth wrote:

If you get rid of the tank, you will only have one zone - so you can get
rid of the motorised zone valves too. If you do that, the output from the
room stat will then need to go directly to boiler demand M7/3. [You can
probably get rid of the bypass circuit too, as long as there will always
be at least one radiator open].


What I will do soon is probably get rid of the tank only.

But other than that leave the plumbing alone.

I will turn off the valve that lets flow to the cylinder. I must do that
of course. And close the plumbing at the return side that went to cylinder.

I can disconnect the actuator valve for the water/cylinder. Probably
both the motor circuit and the auxilary contacts circuit, (I muse).

Other than that, I think the heating circuit just remains as it is. Not
sure about that.

There is a manual/automatic lever on those HP2A actuators. I wonder if
the actuators motor for heater should be disconnected, and the lever set
to manual. If that means permanently open.

Anyway, I'm just taking out the cylinder, leaving the rest of the
plumbing alone, and just have the boiler run the radiators. What that
calls for in wiring changes and any lever selection on the HP2A
actuators, I'm not 100% sure.

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:

There is a manual/automatic lever on those HP2A actuators. I wonder if
the actuators motor for heater should be disconnected, and the lever
set to manual. If that means permanently open.

You can certainly keep the valve open with the lever, independent of the
motor, but you can't rely on it moving far enough to operate the auxilliary
contacts.

Anyway, I'm just taking out the cylinder, leaving the rest of the
plumbing alone, and just have the boiler run the radiators. What that
calls for in wiring changes and any lever selection on the HP2A
actuators, I'm not 100% sure.

You still need a way of having the room stat control the boiler. If the
auxilliary contacts are not doing it as the valve opens and closes, you'll
need to connect the stat output directly to M7/3 as I said earlier.
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Richard[_12_]]

On 07/05/2010 23:36, Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:

There is a manual/automatic lever on those HP2A actuators. I wonder if
the actuators motor for heater should be disconnected, and the lever
set to manual. If that means permanently open.

You can certainly keep the valve open with the lever, independent of the
motor, but you can't rely on it moving far enough to operate the auxilliary
contacts.

Anyway, I'm just taking out the cylinder, leaving the rest of the
plumbing alone, and just have the boiler run the radiators. What that
calls for in wiring changes and any lever selection on the HP2A
actuators, I'm not 100% sure.

You still need a way of having the room stat control the boiler. If the
auxilliary contacts are not doing it as the valve opens and closes, you'll
need to connect the stat output directly to M7/3 as I said earlier.

I think what I will do, is remove the connection at pin 1 in the SET 3E
timer. Then no live will ever get to the water actuator via the cylinder
thermostat. You don't want a demand for heat and the valve closed on the
cylinder pipe circuit.

Setting the switch to water of course will do nothing. But that is okay.

So, when the room thermostat closes, the heater actuator will open, and
close the auxilary contacts, producing a demand for heat, as is normal.

I think that is the solution.

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:
On 07/05/2010 23:36, Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Richard
wrote:

There is a manual/automatic lever on those HP2A actuators. I wonder
if the actuators motor for heater should be disconnected, and the
lever set to manual. If that means permanently open.

You can certainly keep the valve open with the lever, independent of
the motor, but you can't rely on it moving far enough to operate the
auxilliary contacts.

Anyway, I'm just taking out the cylinder, leaving the rest of the
plumbing alone, and just have the boiler run the radiators. What
that calls for in wiring changes and any lever selection on the HP2A
actuators, I'm not 100% sure.

You still need a way of having the room stat control the boiler. If
the auxilliary contacts are not doing it as the valve opens and
closes, you'll need to connect the stat output directly to M7/3 as I
said earlier.

I think what I will do, is remove the connection at pin 1 in the SET
3E timer. Then no live will ever get to the water actuator via the
cylinder thermostat. You don't want a demand for heat and the valve
closed on the cylinder pipe circuit.

Setting the switch to water of course will do nothing. But that is
okay.
So, when the room thermostat closes, the heater actuator will open,
and close the auxilary contacts, producing a demand for heat, as is
normal.
I think that is the solution.


Yes, that will work. But you originally said that you wanted to remove the
valves altogether. Then you changed that to leaving the CH valve in place
but jacking it permanently open - and I was responding with how you could
achieve either of these from a wiring point of view.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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