[Bovvered?]

I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.

TIA

[ARWadsworth]

Bovvered? wrote in message
news
I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

I can quote Phil L (cheers mate) on this as he answered the same question I
asked earlier this year. His answer was

"All walls must be insulated to the top of the cavity, so the peaks on
gables
are always done, this is to prevent any water that may ingress from tracking
across the top of the 'stopped' insulation - if the cavity is 100% filled,
the water will simply make it's way down to the DPC naturally."

Could your gable peak be done from the inside to save on the scaffold costs?
If it is just a loft then that should not be a problem, if it is a bedroom
with plastered walls it could be a problem.



My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.


I have never heard of a permeable wall that was used as a vent for a gas
appliance. I wonder if new this vent is required as the cavity wall
insulation would block up an existing vent.

Adam

[Bovvered?]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:50:50 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


Bovvered? wrote in message
news
I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

I can quote Phil L (cheers mate) on this as he answered the same question I
asked earlier this year. His answer was

"All walls must be insulated to the top of the cavity, so the peaks on
gables
are always done, this is to prevent any water that may ingress from tracking
across the top of the 'stopped' insulation - if the cavity is 100% filled,
the water will simply make it's way down to the DPC naturally."

Thanks, I can see that now, although I can't see how water would
ingress in the first place unless I lost a ridge tile, and that isn't
something you wouldn't notice. At least they want to do a 'proper job'
which is a good thing

Could your gable peak be done from the inside to save on the scaffold costs?
If it is just a loft then that should not be a problem, if it is a bedroom
with plastered walls it could be a problem.

No it's just a loft space so it could be done from the inside, I
suppose it will just depend if they're willing to do that and if they
have a long enough hose to go through the house, up the stairs and
across the loft to the wall.

My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.


I have never heard of a permeable wall that was used as a vent for a gas
appliance. I wonder if new this vent is required as the cavity wall
insulation would block up an existing vent.

There's no other ventilation from outside to in, just the trickle
vent?

Adam

[Phil L]

Bovvered? wrote:
I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

As Adam has already answered this, I don't need to, except to say that water
naturally runs down the inside of the outer brickwork during rainstorms -
you don't need a roof tile missing or any other damage, water gets through
small holes in the mortar and in some cases, the bricks themselves to get
into the cavity.

You don't pay for scaffold though - they are trying it on, simply tell them
that they can do up to the gutter line as normal, then they can do the apex
from inside the loft like all the other CWI installers


My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.

TIA

It /could/ be required, but certainly not at extra cost - this has to be
included in the job.

I've done houses that have needed 20 - 30 vents[1] installing and there was
no extra charges invovled to the customer.

[1] underfloor vents, through vents and suchlikes, very often there were 3
or 4 on each elevation, sometimes a lot more - this is included - it's like
an electrician charging extra for cable clips or a plumber for fittings.

They sound like a cowboy outfit to me, complain to the council, then get in
touch with your energy supplier to find out about their grants, but first
visit this website to see if you can get a 100% grant:
http://www.warmfront.co.uk/

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

[Anna Kettle[_2_]]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:13:54 +0000, Bovvered? wrote:

My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.

Could the wall be a red herring and the actual problem is that the
trickle vent is closeable whereas his rules demand a fixed open vent?

If your wall is made of modern materials it likely wont be breatheable
anyway

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: (+44) 01359 230642
Mob: (+44) 07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk

[Bovvered?]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:27:44 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Bovvered? wrote:
I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

As Adam has already answered this, I don't need to, except to say that water
naturally runs down the inside of the outer brickwork during rainstorms -
you don't need a roof tile missing or any other damage, water gets through
small holes in the mortar and in some cases, the bricks themselves to get
into the cavity.

You don't pay for scaffold though - they are trying it on, simply tell them
that they can do up to the gutter line as normal, then they can do the apex
from inside the loft like all the other CWI installers


My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.

TIA

It /could/ be required, but certainly not at extra cost - this has to be
included in the job.

I've done houses that have needed 20 - 30 vents[1] installing and there was
no extra charges invovled to the customer.

[1] underfloor vents, through vents and suchlikes, very often there were 3
or 4 on each elevation, sometimes a lot more - this is included - it's like
an electrician charging extra for cable clips or a plumber for fittings.

They sound like a cowboy outfit to me, complain to the council, then get in
touch with your energy supplier to find out about their grants, but first
visit this website to see if you can get a 100% grant:
http://www.warmfront.co.uk/

Thanks Phil. I called the council and they confirmed it's quite
normal to finish the job from inside the loft, no scaffold required.
Regarding the vent, apparently the council requires their insulation
contractors to ensure that gas venting is up to the latest standard
for any gas appliance over 7KW. As mine is 6KW that's another 50 quid
I don't need to spend. They are also required to do a CO test before
and after the work to make sure they haven't got insulation in the
flue. Cheers to you and Adam for input.

[Bill[_19_]]

Bovvered? wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:27:44 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Bovvered? wrote:
I've just had a survey by a cavity wall insulation company, they're
one of two approved companies under our local council's insulation
grant scheme. I'm confused over a couple of things they've said hence
this post.

I have a detached garage that is approx 4-5 feet away from one gable
end, they say that with this space for a ladder they can't safely
reach the roof apex and I'll have to pay extra for a scaffold
platform. I asked how high they could go on a ladder with the space
available and they said up to the gutter line. Not being an expert in
this field I'm wondering why do they need to insulate above the gutter
line anyway? Is there any reason why I need to have the wall cavity in
the loft insulated? If I don't is there a risk of damp?

As Adam has already answered this, I don't need to, except to say that
water
naturally runs down the inside of the outer brickwork during rainstorms -
you don't need a roof tile missing or any other damage, water gets through
small holes in the mortar and in some cases, the bricks themselves to get
into the cavity.

You don't pay for scaffold though - they are trying it on, simply tell
them
that they can do up to the gutter line as normal, then they can do the
apex
from inside the loft like all the other CWI installers


My next query is about our lounge which is 26 feet by 14 feet. It has
a gas fire with a normal flue and the room is double glazed with a bay
window at one end and patio doors at the other, the patio doors are
fitted with a permanently open trickle vent. The surveyor has told me
I'll need a 150mm square wall vent installed at extra cost. The reason
given being that CO2 produced by the gas fire won't be able to
permeate through the wall once the cavity is insulated. Is this
correct (and why) or just an unnecessary 'extra'.

TIA

It /could/ be required, but certainly not at extra cost - this has to be
included in the job.

I've done houses that have needed 20 - 30 vents[1] installing and there
was
no extra charges invovled to the customer.

[1] underfloor vents, through vents and suchlikes, very often there were 3
or 4 on each elevation, sometimes a lot more - this is included - it's
like
an electrician charging extra for cable clips or a plumber for fittings.

They sound like a cowboy outfit to me, complain to the council, then get
in
touch with your energy supplier to find out about their grants, but first
visit this website to see if you can get a 100% grant:
http://www.warmfront.co.uk/

Thanks Phil. I called the council and they confirmed it's quite
normal to finish the job from inside the loft, no scaffold required.
Regarding the vent, apparently the council requires their insulation
contractors to ensure that gas venting is up to the latest standard
for any gas appliance over 7KW. As mine is 6KW that's another 50 quid
I don't need to spend. They are also required to do a CO test before
and after the work to make sure they haven't got insulation in the
flue. Cheers to you and Adam for input.


Regarding the gas vent - my CWI installers suggested the same even though
the fires didn't need vents when installed 2 or 3 years ago, I think it was
£75 per vent. When I told the 'surveyor' I would take the fires out (they
are hardly ever used as most of the heat goes up the chimney) he insisted
that it had to be permanently blocked up, I couldn't just leave the opening
as a decorative fireplace in case I later put the fire back ! Absolute
rubbish.
I never did get a proper answer from the Installers, the Council nor the
people running the grant scheme on the validity of this requirement. From
what I could find on the net there is no specific requirement when the fire
is below a certain Kw rating, they are just covering themselves, if a vent
is fitted there is no need for the gas safety checks afterwards. If you
don't like the rule you need to find another installer.