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Freon bottle air tank?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 9th 04, 05:13 PM
Jeff Wisnia
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.

I've had a near empty R22 can sitting around from back when I added AC
to our last home's hot air heating system. That was when you could
legally DIY that kind of stuff, and could even buy precharged equipment
and tubing to let you get a system up and running without a vacuum pump.
The original heating installers had left us a plenum where I could stick
an "A coil", so the whole job was a snap.

I looked up the pressure temperature curve for R22 and it gets up to
around 150 psi at 80F, so I figure the tank ought to be safe for holding
125 psi air for occasional tire filling and blowout jobs I don't want to
drag my little home compressor over to.

Anything I'm missing here or should worry about?

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

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  #2  
Old March 9th 04, 07:08 PM
Ted Edwards
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.


I use a quick change connector on an outdated 20# propane tank. They're
readilly available free around here and they're rated for more pressure
so give a bigger safety margin.

Ted

  #3  
Old March 9th 04, 07:13 PM
Roy
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

I just have a queasy feeling on using freon tanks as portable air
storage containers. They are pretty thin to begin with, and after some
use will get moisture inside. Not usually a problem with the original
contents Freon, but its going to start to rust, and god only knows
when its going to let go. At one time you used to see those kits for
sale just about every where, now you don't. I wonder if there is some
kind of paranoia concerning these kits and liability with the
manufacturer........I really have never checked out how thick a
regular portable air tank is, but now you have myucuriosity sparked.

I know when I worked we used to be always making portable air tanks
for folks there, then after one or two had problems with tanks
splitting etc they just sort of stopped asking to get one made. We
never saw the tanks the manifold gauge and fill adapter etc was
installed on, so there was no real way toknow what someone else deemed
as being good.

Just my 2 cents worth.


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:13:53 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

===I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
===intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
===air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
===pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
===feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.
===
===I've had a near empty R22 can sitting around from back when I added AC
===to our last home's hot air heating system. That was when you could
===legally DIY that kind of stuff, and could even buy precharged equipment
===and tubing to let you get a system up and running without a vacuum pump.
===The original heating installers had left us a plenum where I could stick
===an "A coil", so the whole job was a snap.
===
===I looked up the pressure temperature curve for R22 and it gets up to
===around 150 psi at 80F, so I figure the tank ought to be safe for holding
===125 psi air for occasional tire filling and blowout jobs I don't want to
===drag my little home compressor over to.
===
===Anything I'm missing here or should worry about?
===
===Thanks guys,
===
===Jeff


Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
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  #4  
Old March 9th 04, 07:17 PM
John213a
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

I use a quick change connector on an outdated 20# propane tank. They're
readilly available free around here and they're rated for more pressure
so give a bigger safety margin. BRBR

Ted, did you remove the orriginal propane valve and then install the quick
change connector, or did you find some way to connect to the left hand thread
of the tank? or use an old camp stove hose and put the quick connect to that?
I have a couple of the old cans around that I would like to convert too
  #5  
Old March 9th 04, 07:34 PM
Jack Cammell
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

Hi Guys,
Here in New Zealand we have a domestic "Soda" maker. It has small CO2 bottles
about10inches X 2inches enough gas to fill your tire and very only takes uo a
small space. I would refill the tire with Air when convenient.
Jack

Roy wrote:

I just have a queasy feeling on using freon tanks as portable air
storage containers. They are pretty thin to begin with, and after some
use will get moisture inside. Not usually a problem with the original
contents Freon, but its going to start to rust, and god only knows
when its going to let go. At one time you used to see those kits for
sale just about every where, now you don't. I wonder if there is some
kind of paranoia concerning these kits and liability with the
manufacturer........I really have never checked out how thick a
regular portable air tank is, but now you have myucuriosity sparked.

I know when I worked we used to be always making portable air tanks
for folks there, then after one or two had problems with tanks
splitting etc they just sort of stopped asking to get one made. We
never saw the tanks the manifold gauge and fill adapter etc was
installed on, so there was no real way toknow what someone else deemed
as being good.

Just my 2 cents worth.

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:13:53 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

===I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
===intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
===air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
===pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
===feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.
===
===I've had a near empty R22 can sitting around from back when I added AC
===to our last home's hot air heating system. That was when you could
===legally DIY that kind of stuff, and could even buy precharged equipment
===and tubing to let you get a system up and running without a vacuum pump.
===The original heating installers had left us a plenum where I could stick
===an "A coil", so the whole job was a snap.
===
===I looked up the pressure temperature curve for R22 and it gets up to
===around 150 psi at 80F, so I figure the tank ought to be safe for holding
===125 psi air for occasional tire filling and blowout jobs I don't want to
===drag my little home compressor over to.
===
===Anything I'm missing here or should worry about?
===
===Thanks guys,
===
===Jeff


Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


  #6  
Old March 9th 04, 07:53 PM
jim rozen
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Posts: n/a
Default Freon bottle air tank?

In article , John213a says...

Ted, did you remove the orriginal propane valve and then install the quick
change connector, or did you find some way to connect to the left hand thread
of the tank?


ONe way to do this is to simply purchase the correct CGA fitting
for the tank from Western Enterprises. I think it is CGA350.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #7  
Old March 9th 04, 08:06 PM
Richard J Kinch
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Posts: n/a
Default Freon bottle air tank?

Jeff Wisnia writes:

I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.


Refrigerant tanks only "exhale", they have a mechanism inside (check
valve?) to prevent exactly this sort of unsafe adaptation. Just how does
the kit defeat that?

There are refrigerant recovery tanks meant to both inhale and exhale. They
are considerably heavier construction than the disposable supply tanks.
  #8  
Old March 9th 04, 08:29 PM
Jeff Wisnia
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Posts: n/a
Default Freon bottle air tank?

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Jeff Wisnia writes:


I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.



Refrigerant tanks only "exhale", they have a mechanism inside (check
valve?) to prevent exactly this sort of unsafe adaptation. Just how does
the kit defeat that?

There are refrigerant recovery tanks meant to both inhale and exhale. They
are considerably heavier construction than the disposable supply tanks.


I presume if there was such a valve was part of the original tank valve
I removed when I put the "conversion kit" on, as the tank sure fills up
fine.

But, after reading Roy's comments and understanding well where he's
coming from re the energy stored in compressed gasses, I think I'll
pitch the idea and buy myself a "real" portable air tank, they're cheap
enough.

The Freon bottle feels pretty light for its size and I noticed that one
of the "outie dimples" it stands on is already crushed in a bit, meaning
it isn't all that thick, plus it falls over too easily, and it has to be
at least 20 years old already.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

  #9  
Old March 9th 04, 08:30 PM
Roy
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Posts: n/a
Default Freon bottle air tank?


I have cut many a freon tank apart and all only had a typical valve
for open and close. No checks or any thing else that would prevent one
way passage of contents.When they serviced my old AC unit they used a
partially filled freon container they had to put the old freon in, as
they had to repair a slight leak. A used propane tanak IMHO would be
a safer container to utilize for a portable air storage tank. They
even have a standoff ring on the base to keep it from getting dinged
and scuffed etc, and not those pressed out dimples. A propane tank is
meant for reuse, where a freon container for the most part is made to
last only so long as its disposable. Should easily be able to get an
old style propane cylinder, and the valves are not all that hard to
get out.


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:06:53 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

===Jeff Wisnia writes:
===
=== I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
=== intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
=== air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
=== pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
=== feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.
===
===Refrigerant tanks only "exhale", they have a mechanism inside (check
===valve?) to prevent exactly this sort of unsafe adaptation. Just how does
===the kit defeat that?
===
===There are refrigerant recovery tanks meant to both inhale and exhale. They
===are considerably heavier construction than the disposable supply tanks.


Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
  #10  
Old March 9th 04, 08:42 PM
Rex B
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Default Freon bottle air tank?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:13:53 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

|I just sprang a whole buck at a flea market for a brand new "converter"
|intended to let you use a "disposable" 30 lb freon tank as a portable
|air tank. The gadget's got a schrader valve filling inlet, a dial
|pressure gage, some kind of blowoff valve, a shutoff valve, and a few
|feet of hose with a tire valve chuck on its end.
|
|I've had a near empty R22 can sitting around from back when I added AC
|to our last home's hot air heating system. That was when you could
|legally DIY that kind of stuff, and could even buy precharged equipment
|and tubing to let you get a system up and running without a vacuum pump.
|The original heating installers had left us a plenum where I could stick
|an "A coil", so the whole job was a snap.
|
|I looked up the pressure temperature curve for R22 and it gets up to
|around 150 psi at 80F, so I figure the tank ought to be safe for holding
|125 psi air for occasional tire filling and blowout jobs I don't want to
|drag my little home compressor over to.
|
|Anything I'm missing here or should worry about?

Jeff
Guys have been doing that as long as I can recall. I think the pressure
rating of those tanks is an undisclosed number around 400#.
125 - 150 PSI should be no problem.

Oh, and if it is, your heirs can sue whoever made the tank
Rex in Fort Worth
 




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