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#41
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Apr 9, 9:02*pm, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: The discussion isn't about box vents vs. soffit vents, it's about box vents vs. a ridge vent. If you ask me, box vents are more fussy to install (and shingle around) vs ridge vents, and they don't give you as much ventilation area as you think. *In your case, the box vents you're being quoted for actually have a circular opening of about 8" diameter (on the bottom) and the perforated area on the outer side may not add up to a whole lot of actual ventilation area. http://www.lomanco.com/index.php/ven...tic-roof-vents Your vents have a specified ventilation opening or area of 50 square inches. *Every running foot of ridge venting will give you between about 24 quare inches ventilation (about an inch worth on two sides) and be faster to install - but I don't know about the cost of ridge venting. Your aluminum Lorenco vents come in a box of 6, and can be had for as little as $20 for a box if this ebay vendor is any example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140627349384 Bottom line is that a ridge vent is very easy to install, and gives more ventilation capability and more even ventilation than box vents. I agree with the above. I'd seriously doubt the qualifications of any roofer who gave the story Derby got. However, be aware of this: Summer is notorious for having hot days WITH LITTLE OR NO WIND. Any passive vent system really needs a good wind to help ventilate your roof. *So you might (or should) consider not having too much passive venting AND have some power vent fans. And I disagree with this. The vent system relies on hot air rising. Wind will help IF it's blowing in the right direction. But with the proper amount of passive vents, for most applications, that's all that's needed. Going with the lightest-colored shingles you can manage is also better than dark shingles. |
#42
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Apr 9, 11:29*pm, Home Guy wrote:
gonjah wrote: Should I still be using my attic fan during still periods? I thought they were not cost effective. I try to not have my attic temperature exceed 100 degrees F. 100F isn't much in temperature for an attic. Consider that the attic should already have the thickest insulation in the house. Maintaining 75F inside with the attic at 100F is only a temp delta of 25F. Would you be similarly concerned when the outside temp was 50F during heating season and the walls, which have less insulation are all exposed? Of course not, because the temp delta is small enough. So I'll turn on my attic fan when-ever the temp hits 100, wind or no wind. I have a 1500 sf house. How many sf should I have in soffit vents? You should have a soffit vent hole between every rafter joist. Take a look at the post by HeyBub where he goes through the calcualtion. His target of 1 sqft of vent for every 150 sqft of attic I've seen used before and seems reasonable. I'd prefer a continous soffit vent, rather than individual ones. If you have aluminum soffit, there's no excuse for not having perforated aluminum soffit along the entire length of the eves. *If you have mostly (or totally) solid aluminum soffit, take it all down and replace with 100% perforated soffit: http://www.biytoday.com/Soffit2.jpg Just cut a hole the size of your hand with a jig saw in the existing plywood soffit every 16" before you install the perforated soffit. And remember that anything you do to improve soffit ventilation is wasted if you have attic insulation jammed into the eves blocking air flow. |
#43
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
gonjah wrote:
You mean you have a fan like this: http://woodheatstoves.com/images/solarstar_gable.jpg Yup. It's unplugged and will probably stay that way. That's probably not a smart thing to be doing in the summer. It will help reduce the heat in the attic, which will make your house easier to cool and it will prolong the life of your shingles. So you don't already have aluminum-clad soffits then... ? Looks like this w/o all the dirt (picture) So you have plywood under your eaves. If you're not considering putting up aluminum under the eves then you're probably not going to be doing anything with the eves. If they're high up off the ground then again it's not so easy to do anything with them. I wouldn't waste my time putting up more vents under the eaves when it takes almost as much time and effort to clad the eaves with perforated aluminum soffits. The previous owner of my house (build 1976) had clad all outside window casings and the eves with aluminum. They left the original eave vents in place and simply covered them with a section of perforated aluminum, and used solid aluminum everywhere else. I've since replaced half of the soffits with fully perforated aluminum, and I cut holes in the plywood between every rafter joist. I also had to do some repairs to the 1/2" pine boards that close the eaves (the boards that the gutters are nailed into). So for those roof sections where I pulled those boards off, I installed down-lights every 4 feet, flood lights and a receptical box at the corners (I also pulled some low voltage wire and coax to the corners if I want to mount a camera there). I even installed some speakers every 6 feet. |
#44
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
" wrote:
I try to not have my attic temperature exceed 100 degrees F. 100F isn't much in temperature for an attic. During the hottest 6 weeks of the summer, my attic can reach 100f by 10am. And even with the fan turned on at 10am, the attic will still climb to 120f by maybe 2 or 3 pm. My concerns about high attic temperature are evenly split between the heat-load to the house air conditioner and the impact of the high temperature to the life of the shingles. So a few dollars a year of electricity running a couple 1/8 hp motors is insignificant compared to the perceived benefit in the reduction of attic temperature during the 2 or 3 months that the fan is used. Take a look at the post by HeyBub where he goes through the calcualtion. His target of 1 sqft of vent for every 150 sqft of attic I've seen used before and seems reasonable. I feel that the existing formulas are ad-hoc and don't really see any need for them, especially for new construction (where the eves don't or won't or shouldn't be sealed on the underside with solid press-board or plywood anyways). If you want an even air flow under the roof deck from bottom to top (and you should want that), the only way you're going to achieve that is by having either a completely open soffit (open on the underside - no plywood) and then cover the underside with 100% perforated aluminum - or put a vent hole every 16" along the entire length of the eaves if you have a solid wood underside. |
#45
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 4/10/2012 8:15 AM, Home Guy wrote:
gonjah wrote: You mean you have a fan like this: http://woodheatstoves.com/images/solarstar_gable.jpg Yup. It's unplugged and will probably stay that way. That's probably not a smart thing to be doing in the summer. It will help reduce the heat in the attic, which will make your house easier to cool and it will prolong the life of your shingles. The cost of running the fan vs shingles and additional a/c time I believe is a losing proposition. I could easily be wrong but when they installed the ridge they said the fan would be, in effect, useless. Makes sense to me. I doubt it was ever efficient before the ridge vent because it blows out of a large triangular opening anyway. My *guess* would be the shingles will go with the next quarter sized hail storm. Hail is very common here lately. So you don't already have aluminum-clad soffits then... ? Looks like this w/o all the dirt (picture) So you have plywood under your eaves. If you're not considering putting up aluminum under the eves then you're probably not going to be doing anything with the eves. If they're high up off the ground then again it's not so easy to do anything with them. Not high but problematic due to the architecture. I wouldn't waste my time putting up more vents under the eaves when it takes almost as much time and effort to clad the eaves with perforated aluminum soffits. The previous owner of my house (build 1976) had clad all outside window casings and the eves with aluminum. They left the original eave vents in place and simply covered them with a section of perforated aluminum, and used solid aluminum everywhere else. I've since replaced half of the soffits with fully perforated aluminum, and I cut holes in the plywood between every rafter joist. I also had to do some repairs to the 1/2" pine boards that close the eaves (the boards that the gutters are nailed into). So for those roof sections where I pulled those boards off, I installed down-lights every 4 feet, flood lights and a receptical box at the corners (I also pulled some low voltage wire and coax to the corners if I want to mount a camera there). I even installed some speakers every 6 feet. You hit some very good points. I'll give it more thought. |
#46
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Apr 9, 11:04*pm, "Pat" wrote:
The estimate includes: SOFFIT VENTS Install ten (10), 6" x 16" size, in client selected color screened soffit vents in overhangs. Nowadays 16" or more attic insulation is required by code. *It may be difficult to prevent the insulation from blocking the air flow from soffit vents. *If you install baffles to hold the insulation back you may be putting a flow of cold air next to your ceiling. *A cold spot on your ceiling allows mold to grow. The baffles are up against the roof sheathing, not the ceiling. If you do the geometry, before they get to the beginning of the ceiling sheetrock they have many inches of clearance for insulation. They are routinely used that way with no problems. It's precisely what they are designed for. *Might be better to install roof vents just above the insulation at the bottom of the roof and again at the top. *When you have continuous venting at the soffit and ridge the venting can be reduced by 50%. Reduced 50%? As compared to what? With continuous venting you almost always wind up with more venting area. And even if you had venting area with continuous vents that was just equal to that of box vents, why would it be reduced by 50%? *Since you do not have continuous soffit venting a ridge vent may be undersized by 50%. Another point that makes no sense to me. |
#47
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Apr 9, 9:02*pm, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: The discussion isn't about box vents vs. soffit vents, it's about box vents vs. a ridge vent. If you ask me, box vents are more fussy to install (and shingle around) vs ridge vents, and they don't give you as much ventilation area as you think. *In your case, the box vents you're being quoted for actually have a circular opening of about 8" diameter (on the bottom) and the perforated area on the outer side may not add up to a whole lot of actual ventilation area. http://www.lomanco.com/index.php/ven...tic-roof-vents Your vents have a specified ventilation opening or area of 50 square inches. *Every running foot of ridge venting will give you between about 24 quare inches ventilation (about an inch worth on two sides) and be faster to install - but I don't know about the cost of ridge venting. Your aluminum Lorenco vents come in a box of 6, and can be had for as little as $20 for a box if this ebay vendor is any example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140627349384 Bottom line is that a ridge vent is very easy to install, and gives more ventilation capability and more even ventilation than box vents. However, be aware of this: Summer is notorious for having hot days WITH LITTLE OR NO WIND. Any passive vent system really needs a good wind to help ventilate your roof. *So you might (or should) consider not having too much passive venting AND have some power vent fans. Going with the lightest-colored shingles you can manage is also better than dark shingles. I just spoke to another guy from the same company that sent the estimator out. Here is what he said, which is more or less in line with what the estimator said, meaning that the company itself believes this, not just the guy that looked at my roof. According to them... Ridge vents need more intake than box vents to operate properly. With a ~6" soffit, they couldn't put in enough soffit vents to properly feed a ridge vent. Box vents tend to let more air out than ridge vents, so in cases like mine, where not enough soffit vent intake can be provided, they usually recommend box vents over a ridge vent. He is recommending 10 6" x 16" soffit vents (there are none now) and 6 box vents instead of the current 4. I have appointments with a few more contractors and obviously this will be a point of discussion. |
#48
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 4/10/2012 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 9, 9:02 pm, Home wrote: DerbyDad03 wrote: The discussion isn't about box vents vs. soffit vents, it's about box vents vs. a ridge vent. If you ask me, box vents are more fussy to install (and shingle around) vs ridge vents, and they don't give you as much ventilation area as you think. In your case, the box vents you're being quoted for actually have a circular opening of about 8" diameter (on the bottom) and the perforated area on the outer side may not add up to a whole lot of actual ventilation area. http://www.lomanco.com/index.php/ven...tic-roof-vents Your vents have a specified ventilation opening or area of 50 square inches. Every running foot of ridge venting will give you between about 24 quare inches ventilation (about an inch worth on two sides) and be faster to install - but I don't know about the cost of ridge venting. Your aluminum Lorenco vents come in a box of 6, and can be had for as little as $20 for a box if this ebay vendor is any example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140627349384 Bottom line is that a ridge vent is very easy to install, and gives more ventilation capability and more even ventilation than box vents. However, be aware of this: Summer is notorious for having hot days WITH LITTLE OR NO WIND. Any passive vent system really needs a good wind to help ventilate your roof. So you might (or should) consider not having too much passive venting AND have some power vent fans. Going with the lightest-colored shingles you can manage is also better than dark shingles. I just spoke to another guy from the same company that sent the estimator out. Here is what he said, which is more or less in line with what the estimator said, meaning that the company itself believes this, not just the guy that looked at my roof. According to them... Ridge vents need more intake than box vents to operate properly. With a ~6" soffit, they couldn't put in enough soffit vents to properly feed a ridge vent. Box vents tend to let more air out than ridge vents, so in cases like mine, where not enough soffit vent intake can be provided, they usually recommend box vents over a ridge vent. He is recommending 10 6" x 16" soffit vents (there are none now) and 6 box vents instead of the current 4. I have appointments with a few more contractors and obviously this will be a point of discussion. Keep us up to date please. |
#49
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
DerbyDad03 wrote:
According to them... Ridge vents need more intake than box vents to operate properly. With a ~6" soffit, they couldn't put in enough soffit vents to properly feed a ridge vent. Box vents tend to let more air out than ridge vents, so in cases like mine, where not enough soffit vent intake can be provided, they usually recommend box vents over a ridge vent. Let's think logically about this. You're being told three things: A) your current soffit situation is suitable for box vents, but not for a ridge vent. B) ridge vents need MORE intake than box vents. C) box vents let out MORE air than ridge vents. Look closely at B and C. Can they both be true statements? Are these roofers saying that the volume of air going out of the attic doesn't have to match the air coming into the attic? Because that's the only way that both A and B can both be true. If someone determines that you need a certain amount of volume-air-flow OUT OF your attic, don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done equally well with either a ridge vent or a suitable number of box vents. (this is assuming your roof has a long ridge line to begin with - which any gable-end roof will have). Now, it's EASY to give your roof enough venting to meet any target outward air flow. The question is - will it have enough INWARD or intake air flow capability. If it doesn't have enough intake capacity, then it won't matter how much outward venting you give it (or what type of outward venting you have - box vs ridge). If someone is claiming that box vents can perform some sort of magic and overcome a deficiency of soffit intake venting, and that a ridge-vent can't perform this same magic, then get them to explain this magic to you. |
#50
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 04/09/12 11:52 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 4/9/2012 10:47 PM, gonjah wrote: On 4/9/2012 7:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On 04/09/12 11:51 AM, gonjah wrote: On 4/8/2012 4:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I have heard that ridge vents only work well if there are wide soffits, like 12" or more. ....Snipped.. Pat: How much are you being charged per vent? What is the soffit made of? Oops! Make that DerbyDad. The price per vent is not broken out. There is an overall price for the job which includes the soffit and box vents, zinc strips to control moss, ice/water shield, etc. |
#51
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 04/10/12 6:38 PM, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: According to them... Ridge vents need more intake than box vents to operate properly. With a ~6" soffit, they couldn't put in enough soffit vents to properly feed a ridge vent. Box vents tend to let more air out than ridge vents, so in cases like mine, where not enough soffit vent intake can be provided, they usually recommend box vents over a ridge vent. Let's think logically about this. You're being told three things: A) your current soffit situation is suitable for box vents, but not for a ridge vent. B) ridge vents need MORE intake than box vents. C) box vents let out MORE air than ridge vents. Look closely at B and C. Can they both be true statements? Are these roofers saying that the volume of air going out of the attic doesn't have to match the air coming into the attic? Because that's the only way that both A and B can both be true. If someone determines that you need a certain amount of volume-air-flow OUT OF your attic, don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done equally well with either a ridge vent or a suitable number of box vents. (this is assuming your roof has a long ridge line to begin with - which any gable-end roof will have). Now, it's EASY to give your roof enough venting to meet any target outward air flow. The question is - will it have enough INWARD or intake air flow capability. If it doesn't have enough intake capacity, then it won't matter how much outward venting you give it (or what type of outward venting you have - box vs ridge). If someone is claiming that box vents can perform some sort of magic and overcome a deficiency of soffit intake venting, and that a ridge-vent can't perform this same magic, then get them to explain this magic to you. I'm not arguing...I'm discussing. Earlier in this thread you guys (someone) discussed how different types of soffit vents allowed for more (or less) air flow in. I assume the same holds true for box vents vs. ridge vents on the way out. If ridge vents impede the outflow more than box vents for the same amount of intake, then could that mean having easier outflow could overcome less intake vents? Let me explain what I'm thinking... As an example, let's say I open the glass door on my patio but leave the screen closed. I also (just slightly) open a window on the other side of the room. I then use a fan to try and move air out of the door through the screen. I'll get some intake at the window, but since the outgoing air is impeded by the screen, the intake will be minimal. If I now open the screen, I assume I'll have a lot more intact at the window since the air can move out faster. So if, as this company seems to be saying, the box vents will let more air out, more air will be drawn in through the smaller soffits - more than would be drawn in by the impeded outflow of the ridge vent. However, with bigger soffit vents, there is more air to be easily drawn in, so the ridge vents aren't laboring to pull air through them. I don't know...that's why I'm asking. |
#52
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 4/10/2012 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 04/09/12 11:52 PM, gonjah wrote: On 4/9/2012 10:47 PM, gonjah wrote: On 4/9/2012 7:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On 04/09/12 11:51 AM, gonjah wrote: On 4/8/2012 4:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I have heard that ridge vents only work well if there are wide soffits, like 12" or more. ...Snipped.. Pat: How much are you being charged per vent? What is the soffit made of? Oops! Make that DerbyDad. The price per vent is not broken out. There is an overall price for the job which includes the soffit and box vents, zinc strips to control moss, ice/water shield, etc. Got ya. Thanks |
#53
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
The baffles are up against the roof sheathing, not the ceiling. If you do the geometry, before they get to the beginning of the ceiling sheetrock they have many inches of clearance for insulation. They are routinely used that way with no problems. It's precisely what they are designed for. At the top of my wall I have 3 1/2 inches of height between my roof sheeting and my wall to provice circulation from my soffits area to my attic. The baffle is going to use half of that height leaving room for a tiny amount of insulation. Might be better to install roof vents just above the insulation at the bottom of the roof and again at the top. When you have continuous venting at the soffit and ridge the venting can be reduced by 50%. Reduced 50%? As compared to what? With continuous venting you almost always wind up with more venting area. And even if you had venting area with continuous vents that was just equal to that of box vents, why would it be reduced by 50%? The mandatory minimum attic ventilation area is 1/150 of the area of the space ventilated for all enclosed attics or rafter spaces. This minimum can be decreased to 1/300 if either (i) at least 50% and not more than 80% of the required ventilation is at least 3 feet above eave or cornice vents with the balance of the required ventilation provided by eave or cornice vents or (ii) a Class I or II vapor barrier is installed on the warm-in-winter side of the ceiling. |
#54
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
DerbyDad03 wrote:
He is recommending 10 6" x 16" soffit vents (there are none now) and 6 box vents instead of the current 4. That's less than 7 sq ft of soffit vents. Assuming a 20% loss for the screening, you'll have a bit over 5 sq ft of actual vent space. That should be more than enough for an 800 sq ft house. Do you live in a single-wide? |
#55
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Apr 11, 7:38*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: He is recommending 10 6" x 16" soffit vents (there are none now) and 6 box vents instead of the current 4. That's less than 7 sq ft of soffit vents. Assuming a 20% loss for the screening, you'll have a bit over 5 sq ft of actual vent space. That should be more than enough for an 800 sq ft house. Do you live in a single-wide? I agree with you and HomeGuy. This isn't rocket science. You want adequate intake and adequate exhaust venting. You gave a formula of 1 sqft vent for every 150 sqft attic space. I've seen that used before. DD can do some googling to see if there are other ratios or confirm that one. Whatever amount you need, you should have something at least close to that. If the soffit venting is inadequate, the solution is to fix that, not try to compensate with more exhaust venting. Let's say it's 85F inside your house and now it's night so it's 70F outside. To cool it off best, would you: A - Open 8 windows upstairs and 8 downstairs B - Open 8 windows upstairs and 4 downstairs. C - Open 12 windows upstairs and 4 downstairs The roofers are suggesting C is the solution, even though from their proposal they don't have enough box vents on the exhaust to do C. I vote for A. Also, we've gone through the math on a ridge vent. Because it's continuous, you get a lot of opening, far more than from the # of box vents they are proposing. There are a variety of ridge vent designs. Some allow air to flow more freely than others. It's possible the roofers just haven't looked at all that is available and are basing their conclusions on some crappy design. As far as continuous vents, I'd prefer that for the soffits as well for the reason that you get more area and I think they look better. From aesthetics, what would you rather have? A bunch of box vents sticking out of the roof, or a ridge vent that isn't very noticeable? |
#56
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
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#57
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
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#58
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
replying to HeyBub , BlueRhyno wrote:
heybub wrote: Basic rule: You can't have too much soffit vents. At a minimum, you should have one sq ft of soffit vent for each 150 sq ft of floor space. This is one sq ft of unobstructed venting. Some screening material consumes as much as 2/3rds of the space. Refigure accordingly. If you have a 1500 sq ft house, you need 100 sq ft of soffits, minimum. Assuming the screening material is hardware cloth or similar that consumes less than 20% of the opening, you should plan on 120 sq ft of soffit venting. Further, assuming small, six inch soffits on a 50 x 30' house, you have 160 feet of perimeter. That means only 80 sq ft, maximum, for available soffit vents. Obviously this is woefully insufficient for the appropriate amount of passive ventilation. You'll have to move up a step in addition to ridge vents. Turbines are the next step and beyond that powered ventilators. I'll let you be my banker. I think you slipped an extra "0" in, it should be 10 sq ft. of soffit. -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ts-691831-.htm using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to home and garden related groups |
#59
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On 7/31/2013 10:44 AM, BlueRhyno wrote:
replying to HeyBub , BlueRhyno wrote: I'll let you be my banker. I think you slipped an extra "0" in, it should be 10 sq ft. of soffit. -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ts-691831-.htm using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to home and garden related groups That was already pointed out in the original thread over a year ago. Another example of idiots posting from homemoanershub. |
#60
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Ridge Vent or Box Vents?
On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:05:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 04/09/12 11:52 PM, gonjah wrote: On 4/9/2012 10:47 PM, gonjah wrote: On 4/9/2012 7:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On 04/09/12 11:51 AM, gonjah wrote: On 4/8/2012 4:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I have heard that ridge vents only work well if there are wide soffits, like 12" or more. ...Snipped.. Pat: How much are you being charged per vent? What is the soffit made of? Oops! Make that DerbyDad. The price per vent is not broken out. There is an overall price for the job which includes the soffit and box vents, zinc strips to control moss, ice/water shield, etc. Zinc strips, that's another interesting topic. I just looked into this a bit myself. There are three camps out the A - They work great, just put them up at the peak B - They don't really work at all. C - They work but only for about 4 ft down the roof. After looking at a lot of discussion and then looking at some roofs myself, I think C is probably most accurate. In particular, I saw an office building here where you could see black mold on most of the roof, except right below a plumbing vent flashing. The flashing is apparently galvanized, but the effect was only for about 4 feet or so down the roof. That section was clear. Below it, the mold resumed. So, the problems are it looks to me like you have to do it every 4 ft or so to protect it all and having that zinc staged like that over the roof doesn't look so great. There are also powders that you can sprinkle on that are supposed to prevent mold for a year or two. Don't know how well they work. |
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