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neighbor built over my property line



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 2nd 06, 09:14 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,834
Default neighbor built over my property line


wrote in message
You'd have to be a complete moron to pour a sidewalk
without knowing for sure, via a survey, where the line is.


Many people make assumptions. You see a fence, so the assumption is that it
is on the property line. Later you want a sidewalk, so you frame it out to
the assumed property line. Dumb or not, it happens every day. I wonder how
many people think they own out to the curb at the street?


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  #22  
Old November 2nd 06, 09:14 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,317
Default neighbor built over my property line


I doubt any court would find that pouring a concrete sidewalk 6" onto
someone elses property is acceptable. Why? Because besides it's
obvious the neighbor is clearly in the wrong, for a court to just let
this go sends a message to everyone else that's it's ok and acceptable,
which just encourages it. And I'm amazed that there are people who
would put up with this crap and let others walk all over them and just
look the other way. People who pull this crap aren't just doing it
by mistake. You'd have to be a complete moron to pour a sidewalk
without knowing for sure, via a survey, where the line is.

Anybody puts a sidewalk on my property, it's gonna be outta there PDQ.



That assumes that said neighbor doesn't have a competing survey
that puts the line somewhere else. And that the neighbor isn't
just an idiot. And that the encroachment inconveniences someone
in any way. If you don't have enough real problems in your
life, then picking a fight with your neighbor over the
6" of weeds between your fence and the property line might
make sense. Personally, I've got better things to worry about.


  #23  
Old November 2nd 06, 10:22 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 146
Default neighbor built over my property line

First, if you don't actually know where the property line is, you would
be foolish to argue over it, so the first step for you should be to
locate the actual boundary. I would question the poster who said that
the neighbor will have to have a survey, which will reveal any error.
Actual surveys of urban property are almost never done for sales, and
even if your neighbor did a survey, it would show incursions onto his
property, not yours. You could, of course, split the cost of a survey.

My feeling is it would be unfair of you to know of a problem, and do
nothing to resolve it, until after the property is sold and the current
owner is far gone. Any subsequent owner would be reluctant to deal with
you if you pulled a stunt like that, so I think that if there is a
problem, you should do something before the sale to resolve it. That
may be as simple as granting an easement, or leasing the encroached
property. Something you and your neighbor could do without going to
court. I would hire a reputable lawyer to document the resolution,
however. Before I bought this house, the owner realized the neighbor's
driveway encroached, so he and the neighbor agreed to an easement;
unfortunately, the half witted lawyer they went to confused thirteen
inches and thirty inches, so when a subsequent neighbor wanted to widen
his driveway, I had to go to court to convince them that there was an
error in the easement, and I shouldn't have to move my house.

Incidentally, around here a neighbor has to give you access to his
property if that is the only way you can work on yours, but if you get
on his wrong side, he may, inadvertently, of course, give you the access
at a time that is inconvenient for you.

Patches Forever wrote:
I have a fence that encircles my property and (I believe) it is built 6
inches inside of my property line. A few years ago one of my neighbors
poured a concrete walk right up against the fence, i.e. it is 6 inches over
the line. I never said anything because it doesn't cause me a problem,
however he is now going to sell his house and I think he should cut the
walkway back to his edge of the line (at least) before he sells. I haven't
talked to him about it yet but I will be doing so soon. I may need to get a
surveyor to establish the property line. Then, if my neighbor won't cut his
walkway back I may have to take him to court. Does any one here have any
suggestions?

Bill S.


  #24  
Old November 2nd 06, 10:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 85
Default neighbor built over my property line

Since the fence is owned by both of you, the responsibility for/living with
its misplacement is pretty much shared. I find it hard to believe the whole
fence line would be 6" inside your property though.

If a survey proves you right, and you are still concerned about it - I would
suggest (at least where I'm from) you'd be the one ripping up the 6" of
concrete (and returning it to your neighbour of course) - shortly before
demarcating your lines better....

Don't bother with court - hire a surveyor, concrete saw & move that fence
(tell the neighbour first) - much cheaper!

"Patches Forever" wrote in message
news
I have a fence that encircles my property and (I believe) it is built 6
inches inside of my property line. A few years ago one of my neighbors
poured a concrete walk right up against the fence, i.e. it is 6 inches
over
the line. I never said anything because it doesn't cause me a problem,
however he is now going to sell his house and I think he should cut the
walkway back to his edge of the line (at least) before he sells. I
haven't
talked to him about it yet but I will be doing so soon. I may need to get
a
surveyor to establish the property line. Then, if my neighbor won't cut
his
walkway back I may have to take him to court. Does any one here have
any
suggestions?

Bill S.




  #25  
Old November 2nd 06, 10:35 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 85
Default neighbor built over my property line

I think it's usually referred to in this case as a "doctrine of
aquiescence", and is generally much more than a "few years"! But hey, he
hasn't re-replied to anyone here yet...

wrote in message
...
Patches Forever wrote:

... A few years ago one of my neighbors poured a concrete walk right up
against the fence...


How many years? Look up the legal term "laches."

Nick



  #26  
Old November 3rd 06, 03:39 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 454
Default neighbor built over my property line

Jim Yanik wrote:
Karl S wrote in
:


On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:48:06 -0800, Patches Forever wrote:


I have a fence that encircles my property and (I believe) it is built
6 inches inside of my property line. A few years ago one of my
neighbors poured a concrete walk right up against the fence, i.e. it
is 6 inches over the line. I never said anything because it doesn't
cause me a problem, however he is now going to sell his house and I
think he should cut the walkway back to his edge of the line (at
least) before he sells. I haven't talked to him about it yet but I
will be doing so soon. I may need to get a surveyor to establish the
property line. Then, if my neighbor won't cut his walkway back I may
have to take him to court. Does any one here have any
suggestions?

Bill S.


You said "it doesn't cause me a problem," so why worry about it and go
through the expense of getting a surveyor?



Because after some period of time,it allows the neighbor to claim that
piece of property as THEIRS,and reducing the value of your property in the
process.

No, it doesn't. Before you start practicing law, gt an education.


There are multiple elements to a claim for adverse possession. To
establish adverse possession, the one claiming the property must show
that the possession was open, notorious, hostile adverse, and continuous


Open means that it occurs 24 hours a day in public. In other words,
if you put a portable shed on my property each night between midnight
and 2:00 am, your are sneaking on and sneaking off. Doesn't cut the
mustard. Your use of my property has to be readily observable to me as
the real owner.

Notorious parallels open. Your use of my property must be known to the
public at large.


Hostile or adverse means that your use of my property must be without my
permission of license. In your scenario, you have known of the use and
generously permitted it. Your neighbor or his successor will always
fail this prong of the adverse possession test. If you really want to
ice the cake, cheaply, send your neighbor a certified mail letter, with
return receipt, giving him written permission and a revocable, no fee
license to use the 6 inch strip for his concrete. His use of the strip
will never, within the requirements for adverse possession, be
"hostile". Term your permission a revocable no fee license and you
preserve your right, and your sucessor's to be an asshole and
unilaterally demand th removal of the concrete from the strip. It
sounds like being an asshole is important to you, so you do want to
preserve your potential to be an asshole.

Continuous means that the use by your neighbor has to uinterrupted for
a term of ears. At common law it was 20 year. That means 24/7/365 for
20 years. Your neighbor comes nowhere close.
  #27  
Old November 3rd 06, 03:23 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4,505
Default neighbor built over my property line


Goedjn wrote:
I doubt any court would find that pouring a concrete sidewalk 6" onto
someone elses property is acceptable. Why? Because besides it's
obvious the neighbor is clearly in the wrong, for a court to just let
this go sends a message to everyone else that's it's ok and acceptable,
which just encourages it. And I'm amazed that there are people who
would put up with this crap and let others walk all over them and just
look the other way. People who pull this crap aren't just doing it
by mistake. You'd have to be a complete moron to pour a sidewalk
without knowing for sure, via a survey, where the line is.

Anybody puts a sidewalk on my property, it's gonna be outta there PDQ.



That assumes that said neighbor doesn't have a competing survey
that puts the line somewhere else. And that the neighbor isn't
just an idiot. And that the encroachment inconveniences someone
in any way. If you don't have enough real problems in your
life, then picking a fight with your neighbor over the
6" of weeds between your fence and the property line might
make sense. Personally, I've got better things to worry about.



See how you feel 20 years later, when you go to sell your house and the
buyer discovers the neighbors sidewalk is on the property and refuses
to close until you resolve it. Or when the title insurance company
balks at issuing a policy at closing, because the survey now shows the
neighbors sidewalk is on your property.

  #28  
Old November 3rd 06, 03:30 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4,505
Default neighbor built over my property line


glenn P wrote:
Since the fence is owned by both of you, the responsibility for/living with
its misplacement is pretty much shared. I find it hard to believe the whole
fence line would be 6" inside your property though.


According to the OP, the fence is neither misplaced, nor shared. It's
entirely inside his property line.




If a survey proves you right, and you are still concerned about it - I would
suggest (at least where I'm from) you'd be the one ripping up the 6" of
concrete (and returning it to your neighbour of course) - shortly before
demarcating your lines better....


Where is it that you're from that a neighbor can pour concrete on your
property and it's up to you to remove it and return it to the neigbor?




Don't bother with court - hire a surveyor, concrete saw & move that fence
(tell the neighbour first) - much cheaper!


And more bad advice. The proper sequence is surveyor, then lawyer to
understand your legal options. You MIGHT wind up in court, but the
above process is far more likely to get you there.




"Patches Forever" wrote in message
news
I have a fence that encircles my property and (I believe) it is built 6
inches inside of my property line. A few years ago one of my neighbors
poured a concrete walk right up against the fence, i.e. it is 6 inches
over
the line. I never said anything because it doesn't cause me a problem,
however he is now going to sell his house and I think he should cut the
walkway back to his edge of the line (at least) before he sells. I
haven't
talked to him about it yet but I will be doing so soon. I may need to get
a
surveyor to establish the property line. Then, if my neighbor won't cut
his
walkway back I may have to take him to court. Does any one here have
any
suggestions?

Bill S.



  #29  
Old November 3rd 06, 08:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 307
Default neighbor built over my property line

On 2 Nov 2006 06:29:19 -0800, wrote:

I would not just let this go, as some have suggested, for several
reasons. Laws vary by state in situations like this and no one here
can tell you the exact laws in your state. If you let this go, you
could wind up with the neighbor having either an easement or possibly
even actual claim to the land under the sidewalk. And what if you want
to sell your home one day? With current disclosure laws, in most
places, you would be required to disclose that you know about this
encroachement. And if you play dumb, what if the seller finds it out
before closing and then demands that you fix it? It could tie up your
selling your home for months or more. Or finds it later and takes you
to small claims court?


My neighbor has built his driveway over a wedge of my property 18
inches at the base and 40 feet long. He built his house before mine
and that was the only way he could build his driveway to let his car
through to the backyard garage. There is no other access. I don't
have a problem with that as I have lots of land on my corner lot.
Where I had intended to build my garage had curbside access. But in
maximizing my garage lot and driveway I had to shift the layout such
that the driveway was built over the municipal water shutoff valve to
my house. No problem there with me either as I just had to put in an
access hole where the valve was.

Its 25 years now and there has not been any problem from the City or
through five changes of neighbors fo whom three were owner-buyers.
That is a survey must have been done more than once and I wasn't in
the picture. I don't want to open a can of worms as the saying goes.
But should my son sell the house when I am gone will my son's and my
good neighbor policy leave him with a problem from a buyer? Of
course there will be full disclosure during negotiations. I'd just
like to know what issues will be brought up beforehand without lawyers
getting in the way of an amicable agreement.
  #30  
Old November 4th 06, 12:10 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,225
Default neighbor built over my property line


"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
If its only 6" its not much but you pay taxes and some areas taxes are
alot, a few years wont establish adverse possession , but you are not
even sure yet on lines, get his survey look at yours, offer to sell him
the 6"


If you have a 10,000 sq. ft. lot in an area zoned for single family 5000,
that
6" could cost you the right to short plat the lot.

Bob


 




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