We're adding a outdoor balcony, veranda, and pool deck and want to
cover it in 18 inch sqare travertine. We've found a Turkish stone that
is lightly tumbled (edges rough, partly unfilled but partly smooth).
It has the colors we like and is at a price we can afford ($5.25 per
square foot).
Travertine is beautiful, long lasting, and it gives the kind of Italian
look we want, but

1. I'm concerned about it becoming slippery when wet. Is that going
to be a problem?
Is this related to the sealant? What can I do, if I use this, to make
it less slippery.

2. the unfilled holes: are these going to be a problem? I don't expect
or even want a perfectly clean smooth tile surface outside, so that
doesn't bother me. But are there other problems I should be concerned
about.

I live in Columbia SC so the weather is generally warm with very
infrequent freezes. I'm told the light travertine stone is relatively
cool on the feet in the hot sun.

thanks
--Don

wrote:
We're adding a outdoor balcony, veranda, and pool deck and want to
cover it in 18 inch sqare travertine. We've found a Turkish stone that
is lightly tumbled (edges rough, partly unfilled but partly smooth).
It has the colors we like and is at a price we can afford ($5.25 per
square foot).
Travertine is beautiful, long lasting, and it gives the kind of Italian
look we want, but

1. I'm concerned about it becoming slippery when wet. Is that going
to be a problem?
Is this related to the sealant? What can I do, if I use this, to make
it less slippery.

2. the unfilled holes: are these going to be a problem? I don't expect
or even want a perfectly clean smooth tile surface outside, so that
doesn't bother me. But are there other problems I should be concerned
about.

I live in Columbia SC so the weather is generally warm with very
infrequent freezes. I'm told the light travertine stone is relatively
cool on the feet in the hot sun.

thanks
--Don


I have done an experiment with a tumbled surface travertine sample. The
surface had NO visible unfilled areas. Got the stone VERY wet, put it
down on carpet and put my foot on it and PUSHED, The stone slipped on
the carpet before my foot skidded off the surface.

All travertine has voids in it, you pay for the fewest number and
smallest number of voids. www.marblemaster.com even explains the
difference and prices the quality levels differently.

Best Quality 18inch brushed travertine from MarbleMaster goes for $4.39
sq/Ft and shipping is free if 2000 Sq Ft or more are in the order.
OTOH, it is a freight shipment, and YOU are responsible for having a
suitable forklift available to unload the pallets (3240 lbs for 360 sq
ft. - each 7/16 inch thick tile weighs 14 pounds).

writes:

But are there other problems I should be concerned
about.

You seem to be aware of the roughness. This will make it impossible to
keep clean. Are you aware of how porous and spongy travertine is? The
roughness means you will have vegetable material that will leach tannins
and foster mildew growth. This brown and black staining matter will soak
into the stone and stain it permanently. In short, this stone will weather
into a real dingy state, nothing like when it is new. Is this part of the
"Italian" look you are after?

Richard J Kinch wrote:
writes:

But are there other problems I should be concerned
about.

You seem to be aware of the roughness. This will make it impossible to
keep clean. Are you aware of how porous and spongy travertine is? The
roughness means you will have vegetable material that will leach tannins
and foster mildew growth. This brown and black staining matter will soak
into the stone and stain it permanently. In short, this stone will weather
into a real dingy state, nothing like when it is new. Is this part of the
"Italian" look you are after?

I know that unfilled travertine can get dirty looking. But if it is
sealed and hosed off occasionally is that going to be a problem? Is it
wiser to have the holes filled, either at the factory w resin, or with
grout when installed. Are there people with actual experience with
this stone? Are there good alternatives that give a real stone look
and feel but are easier to maintain?

Robert Gammon wrote:
...

I have done an experiment with a tumbled surface travertine sample. The
surface had NO visible unfilled areas. Got the stone VERY wet, put it
down on carpet and put my foot on it and PUSHED, The stone slipped on
the carpet before my foot skidded off the surface.


In other words it is not slippery to the feet even when wet.
I may misunderstand but I thought that what they called tumbled usually
came with an unfilled surface
I will look further into marble master.
Thanks

..
All travertine has voids in it, you pay for the fewest number and
smallest number of voids. www.marblemaster.com even explains the
difference and prices the quality levels differently.

Best Quality 18inch brushed travertine from MarbleMaster goes for $4.39
sq/Ft and shipping is free if 2000 Sq Ft or more are in the order.
OTOH, it is a freight shipment, and YOU are responsible for having a
suitable forklift available to unload the pallets (3240 lbs for 360 sq
ft. - each 7/16 inch thick tile weighs 14 pounds).

writes:

But if it is
sealed and hosed off occasionally is that going to be a problem?

Look, it has a water absorption of quite a few percent. *Anything*
waterborne on top of it will get into it and stay there, locked in the
spongy matrix forever. That means tannins and mildew and whatever else
your outdoor surfaces collect.

Sealed? A hair-thin layer of acrylic will only slow down contamination.
It's not a hermetic seal. Why do you think people learned to hate
chattahoochie==and that was 1/2 inch of epoxy "sealer"?

Hosing it off? How will having it clean once in a while change that it
is dirty the rest of the time?

Why do you think outdoor grout gets dingy? It has less WA than
travertine.

I'm not saying weathered/dingy travertine isn't OK. It just isn't at
all what it looks like when new.

Why not test it first? Buy a tile or two at the home improvement store.
Apply sealer to one if you like. Put these tiles out on your back porch
with some wet leaves and dirt on it for a month or two. Hose it off.
Scrub it. See what you get.

If you have access to an accurate scale, you can do your own lab
testing. Bake a tile dry and weigh it. Soak it in a bucket of water
for a few days, and weigh it again. Divide the mass difference by the
volume (in metric) to get the percent of water absorption. If it is
more than about 1/2 percent, you're gonna have problems with this stuff
outdoors. I'd bet you'll get 3 or 4 percent, or more.

wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:

...

I have done an experiment with a tumbled surface travertine sample. The
surface had NO visible unfilled areas. Got the stone VERY wet, put it
down on carpet and put my foot on it and PUSHED, The stone slipped on
the carpet before my foot skidded off the surface.



In other words it is not slippery to the feet even when wet.
I may misunderstand but I thought that what they called tumbled usually
came with an unfilled surface
I will look further into marble master.
Thanks

.

All travertine has voids in it, you pay for the fewest number and
smallest number of voids. www.marblemaster.com even explains the
difference and prices the quality levels differently.

Best Quality 18inch brushed travertine from MarbleMaster goes for $4.39
sq/Ft and shipping is free if 2000 Sq Ft or more are in the order.
OTOH, it is a freight shipment, and YOU are responsible for having a
suitable forklift available to unload the pallets (3240 lbs for 360 sq
ft. - each 7/16 inch thick tile weighs 14 pounds).



Tumbled surfaces can be applied to ANY natural stone. All it means is
that they do NOT apply a high polish to the stone. Basically the
grinder stops work when the finish gets to a certain point.

Travertine is an open surface stone. Sealers will not offer significant
protection. No doubt we have all seen granite tile installed outdoors
at public buildings. It wears great, but weathers to a dull surface
quickly (looks dingy)

The stone will look GREAT for the first few months/years.

I have had several conversations with MarbleMaster over the last several
years. Discuss your project with them and listen/read what they say
carefully. They may make some suggestions that will make your pool are
look MUCH better for a longer time.

I have seen photos of pool areas that have been finished with
Travertine, they look WONDERFUL when new.

writes:

Wouldn't this be true of any natural stone material to some degree?
They used travertine on the collesium and Roman forum and while it does
not look like new 2,000 years later, it looks ok.
Are there natural stones that are going to serve my purpose better?

Species like granite have much less water absorption. But you do need to
test a sample or otherwise have it characterized.

Porcelain tile does not have this problem, although the grout does.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
writes:

Wouldn't this be true of any natural stone material to some degree?
They used travertine on the collesium and Roman forum and while it does
not look like new 2,000 years later, it looks ok.
Are there natural stones that are going to serve my purpose better?

Species like granite have much less water absorption. But you do need to
test a sample or otherwise have it characterized.

Porcelain tile does not have this problem, although the grout does.

Do people use granite around pools? What I mostly see is flagstone,
bluestone, brick and concrete. Are these less porous than travertine
marble I wonder?

wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote:

writes:


Wouldn't this be true of any natural stone material to some degree?
They used travertine on the collesium and Roman forum and while it does
not look like new 2,000 years later, it looks ok.
Are there natural stones that are going to serve my purpose better?

Species like granite have much less water absorption. But you do need to
test a sample or otherwise have it characterized.

Porcelain tile does not have this problem, although the grout does.


Do people use granite around pools? What I mostly see is flagstone,
bluestone, brick and concrete. Are these less porous than travertine
marble I wonder?


One issue is that granite is more expensive than Travertine.

Travertine will look absolutely BEAUTIFUL when installed, and for a
good long time afterwards.

You can avoid grout discoloration issues by using a dark grout (maroon,
dark brown, black, deep blue, deep green)