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I need to lift a barn with jacks



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 17th 05, 03:03 PM
Harry K
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Default I need to lift a barn with jacks


wrote:
Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.

The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.

My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
(ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
close.

I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
the wood seems the easiest.

Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.

Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
of thing?
I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.

The other question is how much does something like this actually
weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
jammed under those posts.

Mark


You do seem to know what you are doing and I hope you are aware of
safety. The bottle jacks are the only solution I know of but you need
more than one of them plus a lot of dunnage for blocking as you go.

Your project sounds much more intimidating (safety wise) than I would
care to tackle and I have done some strange things in my long life.

Harry K

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  #2  
Old August 17th 05, 03:17 PM
David Martel
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Mark,

I suspect you're not going to like this advice but get help. A structural
engineer can make a reasonable guess as to the weight that you are lifting
and suggest where to locate temporary supports. Once you know where the temp
supports go you may want to pour some footings. You'll need support columns.
The type with screw jacks are good for this. See if you can rent the
columns, screw, and bottle jacks. Use a level to be sure that your support
columns are plumb. Now at each jacking point you'll have a bottle jack under
a 6x6 under the barn's sill plate. At each end of the 6x6 you'll have a
support column. Jack up, raise the support columns to support the weight,
move to the next jack and repeat.When you're done the barn will be up on the
support columns and you can remove the bottle jacks, pour footing and build
a foundation.

Dave M.


  #3  
Old August 17th 05, 03:19 PM
Duane Bozarth
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Default

wrote:

....
...I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.


That's roughly same size as one grandad built--38x66. It's frame
construction, however on poured foundation w/ wood siding and shingle
(now shake) roof...

The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.


Damn lucky you didn't kill yourself w/ that make-do contraption...

Raised ours enough to replace sill plate on one end and half of the
length using three 20-T bottle jacks and several 4x6 to spread load
across several rafters.

....

Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.

Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
of thing?...


There are long-lift versions of bottle jacks that will do the job
although you will need several lifts even there. But, they're expensive
and I would be very reluctant to trust the really cheap Chinese imports
for this kind of work where my life is at stake.

If I had to make such a high lift, I think I'd call the guys local here
who do house moving and borrow/rent a couple of lifts from them as it
will be pretty pricey to find the capacity and the length I'm thinking.

As for how much you're trying to lift, would need a better picture more
data to actually guess, but probably not more than about 10T I'd guess
in a given lift.

My recommendation is to go slow and steady rather than try to get the
whole thing at one go. It's possibly going to get more unstable as you
get higher owing to the long-term "set" the building has taken over the
years. Whatever you do, be careful--I'm amazed you didn't have a
disaster already w/ the over-stressing of the jack you already did.
  #5  
Old August 17th 05, 04:36 PM
kevin
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Posts: n/a
Default

First off -- good luck.

You want "power", but are complaining about the slowness and small lift
height of your jacks. Those two facts are related, of course -- if it
went faster, you'd have less power. Laws of physics and all... But
renting 20T bottle jacks should be cheap.

I would be real hesitant to use railroad ties for anything in this
project, other than laid flat on the ground for a temporary base.
Especially if they are old, used, or weathered. Remember, these things
are designed to lay flat to take a load, not raised on end. Loaded
end-wise, they could split, splinter, or collapse. Use steel screw-type
columns, or decent wood 6x6 posts. Or better yet, use a 3'x3' stack of
4x4 lumber (see below).

There are some other things being neglected. Supposing you do get the
whole barn up (30''!) in the air, supported on lally columns, or
whatever. Just the slightest wind will tip your whole barn over. You
need horizontal (diagonal) bracing, and a lot of it.

The way a house-mover does it is to build several stacks of 4x4 or 6x6
lumber -- in the corners, along the walls, in the middle, etc. Each
square stack has two pieces laid down about 3' apart. The next layer
has two pieces laid 3' apart across the first layer, and so on, in a
tall stack. Takes a lot of lumber to do, but will give decent
horizontal bracing. Especially if you nail some diagonal bracing to the
stack. As you raise, you put another layer on at each 4'', and every
few layers bind the whole thing together with another diagonal brace.

A house mover would probably use large steel beams on top of the
built-up columns, to support the floor. You could just use 6x6 beams,
or something, though.

Finally, for the walls, I would probably go with poured concrete walls
and footers. It seems by far the easiest, and probably the cheapest as
well. A concrete contractor might be able to tell if the remaining
stone footer is good enough, and just put up frames and pour on top of
that. It take little labor, and be done in a matter of days.

  #6  
Old August 17th 05, 05:01 PM
Jack
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Default

80 or 90 of your frinds & neighbors???
.... alright everyone lift together now... on three... 1..2.."

  #7  
Old August 17th 05, 05:02 PM
Duane Bozarth
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Default

kevin wrote:

First off -- good luck.

....
I would be real hesitant to use railroad ties for anything in this
project, other than laid flat on the ground for a temporary base.
Especially if they are old, used, or weathered. Remember, these things
are designed to lay flat to take a load, not raised on end. Loaded
end-wise, they could split, splinter, or collapse. ...


A 6x8 unless it is so rotted/split that it is falling completely apart
to begin w/ is not going to fail at a 30" column height. Nor would it
fail at a full length in compression unless that were the case.

It is also highly unlikely that simply raising the one side back to its
original level is going to create a major additional lateral wind
load...he's "only" raising it 2-1/2', after all. While that's a lot of
sag for a building in functional terms, it isn't much in the overall
height of what is probably something like 40' to the ridge beam...

That said, I agree that short lifts w/ adequate bracing and extreme care
is warranted to make sure the structure doesn't shift unexpectedly. If
would, of course, help to have some idea of what overall shape the rest
of the structure is in. If it's stood in the present condition and only
sagged downward rather than leaned greatly, it would appear to be pretty
well constructed.
  #8  
Old August 17th 05, 05:49 PM
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.

The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.

My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
(ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
close.

I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
the wood seems the easiest.

Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.

Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
of thing?
I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.

The other question is how much does something like this actually
weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
jammed under those posts.

Mark


I got to watch a church being raised up as 6 or 8 blocks worth of cinder block
foundation was built underneath it on the fly. (Across the street from where I
was working that year.) They did it with screw-type jacks spaced around the
entire sill and would move them a few block widths sideways as needed.

--
"The career politicians are keeping the elevator at the penthouse
floor and not sending it down for the rest of us." - Kinky Friedman
  #9  
Old August 17th 05, 06:39 PM
NotMe
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Posts: n/a
Default




snip
| Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
| a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
| believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
| under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
| and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
| some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
| bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
|
| Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
| of thing?
| I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
| lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
|
| The other question is how much does something like this actually
| weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
| sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
| timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
| feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
| point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
| wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
| I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
| the outside until it is stabilized. Then I will work on the posts
| under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
| have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
| jammed under those posts.
|
Check with the local heavy truck wrecker company. Many have air bladders
that they place under a tipped load to ease it back into place with air
pressure. FWIW I've seen these things move a Mississippi river barge.



  #10  
Old August 17th 05, 06:42 PM
No
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Posts: n/a
Default

I lifted a somewhat smaller building, a cottage. I used bottle jacks, and a
few screw jacks. . The key is, IMO, and I'm not a profesional, is to go
SLOW. Bring it up the capacity of the jack, put in cribbing, let it down,
raise the jack, repeat. My project required 16 footers at 48" deep, on top
of that I build my block piers. This building was on a hill. My tallest
piers were 48". On the up hill side I built right on the footings. I really
like the concrete suggestion. The materials are cheap. Once you get the barn
raised you can build your forms and call the concrete guy. If the rock
foundation is still there I may consider pouring my concrete over it (Inside
forms of course). You can also consider stem walls and retaining waslls
while you are at it. Once the concrete is set up, you can SLOWLY lower the
thing back down. I would NOT have any wood in contact with the earth. Thats
why the building probably failed to begin with.
wrote in message
...
Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.

The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.

My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
(ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
close.

I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
the wood seems the easiest.

Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.

Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
of thing?
I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.

The other question is how much does something like this actually
weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
jammed under those posts.

Mark



 




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