1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?
2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered
masonite? Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails.
Today when I go into HD and ask for tempered masonite the show me
something that is nowhere near what I had previously used.

Thanks for any and all help.

"mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Because carrage bolts are used with nuts to tighten. Nuts need to be able
to screw the entire length. Hex bolts do not require a nut to be tightened
and do not have to screw all the way in to something that is threaded to
tighten.


2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered
masonite?

Commonly all are the name. Masonite is a brand name for hard board.

Tempered hard board is generally differentiated from non tempered by the
green or red stripe on the side of a stack of hard board. If the pieces
have a red stripe they are tempered. A Green stripe indicates non tempered.
With out that stripe one cannot tell by looking which is which as both
varieties differ in color.



Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails.
Today when I go into HD and ask for tempered masonite the show me
something that is nowhere near what I had previously used.

Thanks for any and all help.

Leon wrote:

2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered
masonite?


Commonly all are the name. Masonite is a brand name for hard board.

SFWIW, Masonite Corp, located in Tampa, FL quit making "masonite"
hardboard over a year ago.

DAMHIKT, it is a long tale.

Lew

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:25:26 GMT, Lew Hodgett
scribbled:

SFWIW, Masonite Corp, located in Tampa, FL quit making "masonite"
hardboard over a year ago.

DAMHIKT, it is a long tale.

No doubt some Merkin lawyers involved. IDWTKHYKT (I do want to know
how you know this). Inquiring minds want to know. It seem they bought
out Stanley's door manufacturing operation, but no mention of
hardboard on their North American web sites.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

No doubt some Merkin lawyers involved. IDWTKHYKT (I do want to know
how you know this). Inquiring minds want to know.

A telephone call to tech service.

Receptionest informed me they sold the buisness a year ago, and could
offer none.

It seem they bought
out Stanley's door manufacturing operation, but no mention of
hardboard on their North American web sites.

They are big in the door business these days, or at least that was what
I was told.

Lew

On 22 Mar 2005 17:15:08 -0800, "mike" wrote:

1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Boy did I misread that initially. I figured I'd missed the thread on
carriage bolts altogether. Damn news server, said I. Then I figured it
out. Anyway, it depends on the size. There are lots of carriage bolts
that don't have full length threads. Conversely, there are some hex
bolts that are threaded full length.

2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered
masonite? Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails.
Today when I go into HD and ask for tempered masonite the show me
something that is nowhere near what I had previously used.

I don't know.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

mike wrote:
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?
2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered
masonite? Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails.
Today when I go into HD and ask for tempered masonite the show me
something that is nowhere near what I had previously used.

Thanks for any and all help.


Your terminology may be a bit off. The typical
carriage bolts has a rounded head with a square
under it (the square sinks into wood and doesn't
turn so a wrench is need on only one end), the
shank is smooth and not threaded except for the
last inch or so. They are meant to fasten wooden
parts together but to leave a smooth surface that
won't catch clothing or other objects. A smooth
shank is essential to reduce wear; threads the
length of the bolt would work in the hole and chew
up the wood.

Bolts threaded the full length are termed termed
machine screws, machine bolts, stove bolts, etc.
depending on the head and the nut and typically
are used to hold metal parts together. Of course
there are also bolts with a smooth shank and short
length of screw that are used for joining metal parts.


Masonite is a brand of hard board. Untempered has
a waffle weave on one side and a smooth surface on
the other, usually light brown color. Tempered is
similar except the smooth side is usually darker
and is harder due to the heat and pressure used in
tempering. Tempered both sides is usually very
dark, almost black, and very hard, almost all the
way through a 1/4" thickness. I haven't seen the
tempered both sides for some time but it is the
best for the bottom of drawers.

George E. Cawthon writes:
Masonite is a brand of hard board. Untempered has
a waffle weave on one side and a smooth surface on
the other, usually light brown color. Tempered is
similar except the smooth side is usually darker
and is harder due to the heat and pressure used in
tempering. Tempered both sides is usually very
dark, almost black, and very hard, almost all the
way through a 1/4" thickness. I haven't seen the
tempered both sides for some time but it is the
best for the bottom of drawers.

Correct. Oddly enough, IIRC Masonite was the originator of tempered
hardboard, which is why Masonite has become the generic name for the
substance even though the company itself no longer makes the hardboad
in its original form (it shapes the stuff now and sells it as
doorskins, among other things).

You can find both carriage bolts & hex heads with partially smooth or
fully threaded shafts - depends on the application as to which one you
want to buy. At our local store, I think it's which one is the
cheapest this week, unfortunately. A fully threaded bolt is weaker
since threading it reduces the shaft. This issue came up last year
when I tried to replace a bolt for the tail wheel of a mower. All the
store had were fully threaded ones in that size, that day. They can
wear more, whether in wood or metal, too.

Personally, after years of dealing with old stuff with carriage bolts
in them, I use them only when I have to. If there is any way I can
reasonably use a hex head, I do. A little rust, wear or aging & a
carriage bolt can be a pain to remove for repairs.

Jim

Jim notes:
.Personally, after years of dealing with old stuff with carriage bolts

in them, I use them only when I have to. If there is any way I can
reasonably use a hex head, I do. A little rust, wear or aging & a
carriage bolt can be a pain to remove for repairs.

True, but if you can't reach the head side of the bolt...no substitute.
Bolt-through ledger boards for decks come to mind. Hard to be both
inside and outside, and often the helper is busy elsewhere. Too, if
there's a chance a hex head will snag on something the round head of
the CB is preferable. Otherwise, I don't see much need--though they are
somewhat prettier than hex heads, I guess, and a lot of makers of
sheetmetal stands use them (which, as a too frequent tool assembler, I
really do appreciate).

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


Masonite is a brand of hard board. Untempered has a waffle weave on one
side and a smooth surface on the other, usually light brown color.

Not necessarily. A description taken from
http://www.jollyboard.com/standard.html ,

Appearances : Surface texture is "usually" smooth on one side with a fine
mesh pattern on the reverse. Colour ranges from "light gold to dark brown".

Tempered is
similar except the smooth side is usually darker and is harder due to the
heat and pressure used in tempering.

Again taken from the site listed above, both temperend and non tempered are
heat treated.

Jolly "Oil Tempered" Hardboard is a superior, hard, tough and durable board
that conforms to Indian Standard Specification for Fibre Hardboard,
1658-1977 and, British Standard 1142.

"Standard" Hardboard is impregnated with hot cashew oil and resin, and
"subsequently heat treated". Cashew oil makes the boards absolutely termite
resistant. The resin and heat curing also increase the density of the
board-improving it's strength, and water and abrasion resistance properties.

Taken From http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/homefurnish/g1247.htm

Hardboard
Hardboard is made from refined wood fibers locked together with adhesives,
steam and pressure. There are three types of hardboard: standard, tempered
and service.

Standard is strong and has good water resistance. It often is used in
furniture construction.

Tempered hardboard has been treated chemically and with heat to increase its
stiffness, hardness and finishing properties. It often is used in floors and
dividers within drawers or cabinets, and is sometimes used as back panels
for cabinets, bookcases and mirrors.

Hardboard may be smooth on both sides or smooth on one side, rough on the
other. Hardboard comes in 1/16 inch to 3/4 inch thicknesses and panels of
various sizes.

From what I have been told by suppliers and have read in magazine articals
the only way for sure to tell if hardboard is tempered or non tempered is
by the red or green identification markings on the edge/side of a stack of
hard board. As indicated by both sources listed above, hardboard tempered
or non tempered may infact have both sides smooth or one side rough, or both
tempered or non tempered may or may not be light to dark brown in color.

In article , "Leon" wrote:

From what I have been told by suppliers and have read in magazine articals
the only way for sure to tell if hardboard is tempered or non tempered is
by the red or green identification markings on the edge/side of a stack of
hard board.

There are at least two more ways to tell: tempered is a *lot* harder than
standard. And it's noticeably heavier, too.

This doesn't help much if you have only one piece, and you want to know if
it's tempered or not... but if you have two pieces, one tempered and one
standard, it's pretty easy to tell which is which.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:9ff0e.13497
There are at least two more ways to tell: tempered is a *lot* harder than
standard. And it's noticeably heavier, too.

This doesn't help much if you have only one piece, and you want to know if
it's tempered or not... but if you have two pieces, one tempered and one
standard, it's pretty easy to tell which is which.

Perhaps, From what I was told when I used that same analogy is that because
hardboard differs greatly in appearance from different oils, chemicals, or
wood products that are used and depending on manufacturer and location , the
hardness's will also vary quite a bit. Basically if you have different
brand hard boards the hardness of one may or may not indicate which you
have. If both are from the same manufacturer your method would be more
accurate. Either way I would use this method if having to decide which to
use but if a specific specification is indicated it would be better to be
able to accurately validate.

Leon wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Because carrage bolts are used with nuts to tighten. Nuts need to be able
to screw the entire length. Hex bolts do not require a nut to be tightened
and do not have to screw all the way in to something that is threaded to
tighten.

No, it's simply a choice of the vendor...many carriage bolts aren't
fully threaded...

And a machine (hex) bolt is often used to tie two pieces together so a
nut is used just as w/ a carriage bolt. All depends on the application.

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:25:26 GMT, Lew Hodgett
scribbled:

SFWIW, Masonite Corp, located in Tampa, FL quit making "masonite"
hardboard over a year ago.

DAMHIKT, it is a long tale.

No doubt some Merkin lawyers involved.

I woulda guessed Bean Counters...
MBA types.

No money in it anymore.
Wonder if they lost the patent or the recipe?

On 22 Mar 2005 17:15:08 -0800, mike wrote:
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Carriage bolts are always going to have a nut on them, I think.
Since you don't know where that'll end up, it's threaded all the
way.

A hex bolt usually goes through a drilled hole, and having
a non-threaded section gives you more strength and positive
location in the axial direction.

Just a thought, kinda winging it, but it makes sense. Annoying
sometimes, though.

Dave Hinz

Dave Hinz wrote:

On 22 Mar 2005 17:15:08 -0800, mike wrote:
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Carriage bolts are always going to have a nut on them, I think.
Since you don't know where that'll end up, it's threaded all the
way.

Well, it's no harder to measure/calculate the length for the bolted
pieces for a carriage bolt than a machine bolt...

A hex bolt usually goes through a drilled hole, and having
a non-threaded section gives you more strength and positive
location in the axial direction.

And a machine bolt goes through a non-drilled hole?

Just a thought, kinda winging it, but it makes sense. Annoying
sometimes, though.

My observation is that it's a way for the cheaper
manufacturers/distributors to minimize the number of sizes kept in stock
-- carriage bolts are a lesser quantity item in general and so it's the
first to minimize.

The only thing in stock locally now except at the farmers' equity is
cheap (and I'm really talking cheap, but not inexpensive) imported pos
stuff...there are sizes in 1" increments and best...

I suppose there's also some reason that the fabrication process makes it
cheaper, too, but I don't know precisely how...can't imagine it's done
for anything other than cost, however.

Charlie Self wrote:
George E. Cawthon writes:
[snip]


Correct. Oddly enough, IIRC Masonite was the originator of tempered
hardboard, which is why Masonite has become the generic name for the
substance even though the company itself no longer makes the hardboad
in its original form (it shapes the stuff now and sells it as
doorskins, among other things).

The Masonite was also used by cake decoraters - they used the Masonite as
the solid plate under the cakes - little frosting like glue and wax paper
and the cake stuck in place on the "solid" 1/4" surface. Wonder what they
use now?

Josie

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...



No, it's simply a choice of the vendor...many carriage bolts aren't
fully threaded...

Ok

And a machine (hex) bolt is often used to tie two pieces together so a
nut is used just as w/ a carriage bolt. All depends on the application.

My reference was such as a machine bolt used for head bolts on an engine.
No need to thread the whole bolt when the end is all that will engage the
block. But like you said it all depends on the application

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 22 Mar 2005 17:15:08 -0800, mike wrote:
1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of
the bolt but not on hex bolts?

Carriage bolts are always going to have a nut on them, I think.
Since you don't know where that'll end up, it's threaded all the
way.

A hex bolt usually goes through a drilled hole, and having
a non-threaded section gives you more strength and positive
location in the axial direction.

The non threaded section can be used as a pivot location on the bolt. The
bolt is really no stronger there than its weakest point. If the bolt
breaks some where else it does little good to make it stronger there.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:25:28 -0800, Luigi Zanasi
wrote:
No doubt some Merkin lawyers involved. IDWTKHYKT (I do want to know
how you know this). Inquiring minds want to know. It seem they bought
out Stanley's door manufacturing operation, but no mention of
hardboard on their North American web sites.

Darn it Weegi, that's a monitor clean you owe me. Surely others know
the true meaning?

Groggy