I just acquired a new 6" jointer...the Craftsman which is made by Orion. It
has a (true) 1 HP motor and comes pre-wired for 110, but can be easily
rewired for 220. My questions a

1. What is the advantage of wiring for 220 vs. 110? Different Websites say
different things...some say the motor will run cooler, some say it will run
"better" (not defined!), some say it makes no difference whatsoever.
Opinions?

2. The 220 drop in my basement is the type with two straight prongs (at an
angle) and one L-shaped. The L-shaped prong carries the neutral. (It's a
30-amp "dryer outlet.") The jointer's manual says I must connect the ground
wire to a true ground. My question is...if I connect the ground wire to a
neutral instead of a true ground, am I still properly grounding the tool?

Total newbie here, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:58:22 -0500, "Mark Cooper"
wrote:

I just acquired a new 6" jointer...the Craftsman which is made by Orion. It
has a (true) 1 HP motor and comes pre-wired for 110, but can be easily
rewired for 220. My questions a

1. What is the advantage of wiring for 220 vs. 110? Different Websites say
different things...some say the motor will run cooler, some say it will run
"better" (not defined!), some say it makes no difference whatsoever.
Opinions?

2. The 220 drop in my basement is the type with two straight prongs (at an
angle) and one L-shaped. The L-shaped prong carries the neutral. (It's a
30-amp "dryer outlet.") The jointer's manual says I must connect the ground
wire to a true ground. My question is...if I connect the ground wire to a
neutral instead of a true ground, am I still properly grounding the tool?

Here's the way to look at it: in most dual voltage motors there are
two windings. It is possible to connect the windings either in series
or in parallel. For 120V operation, the windings are connected in
parallel; for 240V operation, the windings are connected in series.

What all of this means is related to E=IR (Ohm's Law) and the
derivative, P=IE, and the result is half the current used at 240V vs
that used at 120V--however, the power (watts) is the same. The
windings in your motor are thus always seeing 120V so no difference in
efficiency, no change in the electric bill, and no cooler running.

If you have a stiff supply (short run of adequately sized wire) it
won't make a whit of difference which voltage you run it on. If you
have a 15A run of 50 feet, you would indeed be well served by rewiring
the motor to 240V, if for no other reason than to reduce the effect of
the high current draw (and voltage drop) at startup.

Now, erase all thoughts of a "neutral" in a 240V circuit. Ain't no
such animal. There are two 120V hot leads (180° out of phase) and a
ground, and the ground is only for safety; it's not needed to make the
motor run (dryers were permitted to use the ground as a netural so
that they could use one leg of the 240V circuit for electric timers
and such, but otherwise, the 240V feed is used for the heating coils).

If the panel that feeds your "dryer outlet" is the main load center,
Bob's your uncle, as the ground and neutral are bonded in the panel
and the third wire can truly be used as a ground with no further
effort. If the panel is a sub-panel then you must make sure the third
wire is indeed connected to the ground bus.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put a
small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker. I would replace the breaker
with a 15 or 20a and replace the outlet with an appropriate outlet. That
the wire is too big is good.

Motors drawing over 15a @ 120v should be wired to 240v. They will draw half
the amperage, so voltage drop is smaller, especially with starting. It is
not really an issue with your jointer, which is probably only 10a UNLESS you
will also be running your dust collector on the same circuit. Then you
should rewire one to 240v just to get them on separate circuits. Are you
following me, or am I too tired to be coherent? You basically want to avoid
running two tools on the same circuit (at the same time of course). If
rewiring will prevent that, then rewire.

In article , "toller" wrote:
You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put a
small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker.

The breaker is for the protection of the wiring, not the tool that's plugged
into it.

I would replace the breaker
with a 15 or 20a and replace the outlet with an appropriate outlet. That
the wire is too big is good.

That's NOT a good idea. The wire used in a 40A circuit is too large to be
adequately secured in a 15- or 20-amp receptacle.

A much better idea - IF, but ONLY if the existing circuit has both a neutral
and a ground - would be to use the existing circuit to feed a subpanel, and
branch new circuits off the subpanel.

Motors drawing over 15a @ 120v should be wired to 240v.

So who has a motor drawing over 15A? He said it's a true 1HP motor. 1HP =
apprpox 750 watts = a little over 6A at 120V.

They will draw half
the amperage, so voltage drop is smaller, especially with starting. It is
not really an issue with your jointer, which is probably only 10a UNLESS you
will also be running your dust collector on the same circuit. Then you
should rewire one to 240v just to get them on separate circuits.

There's really not much point in doing that, unless the two of them together
would overload a single 20A circuit.

Are you
following me, or am I too tired to be coherent? You basically want to avoid
running two tools on the same circuit (at the same time of course). If
rewiring will prevent that, then rewire.

There's nothing wrong with running two, or more, tools on the same circuit at
the same time, as long as the combined load doesn't exceed the capacity of the
circuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message om...
In article , "toller" wrote:

Motors drawing over 15a @ 120v should be wired to 240v.

So who has a motor drawing over 15A? He said it's a true 1HP motor. 1HP =
apprpox 750 watts = a little over 6A at 120V.


I'm really not sure what you mean by a true 1HP motor. Do you mean 100% efficiency?

In real life, a 1HP motor will draw between 10 and 15 amps at 115 VAC, depending on motor construction, speed and efficiency.

However, if you know of a source or those 1HP, 6A 120VAC, 100% efficient motors, please post a link. I may want to buy a few.

--
Al Reid

How will I know when I get there...
If I don't know where I'm going?

"Al Reid" wrote in message
...
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "toller"
wrote:

Motors drawing over 15a @ 120v should be wired to 240v.

So who has a motor drawing over 15A? He said it's a true 1HP motor. 1HP =
apprpox 750 watts = a little over 6A at 120V.


I'm really not sure what you mean by a true 1HP motor. Do you mean 100%
efficiency?

In real life, a 1HP motor will draw between 10 and 15 amps at 115 VAC,
depending on motor construction, speed and efficiency.

However, if you know of a source or those 1HP, 6A 120VAC, 100% efficient
motors, please post a link. I may want to buy a few.

Doug doesn't know of a source, In fact he doesn't know his ass from a hole
in the ground.
He simply looks for my posts and says I am wrong. He will take quote out of
context to make it look like I said something silly. Here I actually said
the 1hp motor probably drew 10a and didn't need to be changed; only motors
over 15 amps needed to be changed. He quoted the "over 15" to make it look
like I said the 1hp motor drew over 15a.
He is an idiot and an obnoxious jerk. I have him killfiled, but I see him
when someone replies to a post in which he says something stupid about my
post.
Do yourself a favor and killfile him; you won't be sorry.

In article , "Al Reid" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "toller"
wrote:

Motors drawing over 15a @ 120v should be wired to 240v.

So who has a motor drawing over 15A? He said it's a true 1HP motor. 1HP =
apprpox 750 watts = a little over 6A at 120V.


I'm really not sure what you mean by a true 1HP motor. Do you mean 100%
efficiency?

That was the original poster's term, not mine. I assume he meant that it draws
1HP of power.

In real life, a 1HP motor will draw between 10 and 15 amps at 115 VAC,
depending on motor construction, speed and efficiency.

A motor with 1HP output, drawing 15A, isn't very efficient (around 40%). I
think most electric motors do a little better than that.

However, if you know of a source or those 1HP, 6A 120VAC, 100% efficient
motors, please post a link. I may want to buy a few.

The point is that a 1HP motor isn't going to pull "over 15A".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 04:51:20 GMT, "toller" wrote:

You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put a
small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker.

Why not? Do you have a bunch of teeny tiny 1A breakers to power your
clock radio and other small devices with? Someone posted similar
nonsense a whlle back saying that because Grizzly recommended a 20A
line for their blurpfl that it would void the warranty to power it
with a 30A line. I recommended that person refrain from giving
electrical advice, obviously lacking a fundamental understanding of
it.

You basically want to avoid running two tools on the same circuit (at the
same time of course).

Why is that? Do you have separate circuits for your food processor and
stand mixer? Geez, where do you guys come up with this stuff?


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 04:51:20 GMT, "toller" wrote:

You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put a
small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker.

Why not? Do you have a bunch of teeny tiny 1A breakers to power your
clock radio and other small devices with? Someone posted similar
nonsense a whlle back saying that because Grizzly recommended a 20A
line for their blurpfl that it would void the warranty to power it
with a 30A line. I recommended that person refrain from giving
electrical advice, obviously lacking a fundamental understanding of
it.

If you read my post, I said he could use it, but I wouldn't.
It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a breaker;
no one would argue with that except to be a jerk. The 1a clock on a 15a
circuit is not an appropriate analogy.

You basically want to avoid running two tools on the same circuit (at the
same time of course).

Why is that? Do you have separate circuits for your food processor and
stand mixer? Geez, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Kitchens are required to have two circuits because it is not a good idea to
run a food processor and stand mixer on the same circuit at the same time.
If you only have one line it is okay if necessary, but only a moron wouldn't
try to avoid it.

Friend of Doug's?

toller wrote:

....

It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a breaker;
no one would argue with that except to be a jerk. The 1a clock on a 15a
circuit is not an appropriate analogy.
....

Precisely why for a physical reason do you think this is so?

The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wiring, not the device.

As long as the breaker is not oversized for the wiring, there's no
problem.

In article , "toller" wrote:

"LRod" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 04:51:20 GMT, "toller" wrote:

You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put a
small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker.

Why not? Do you have a bunch of teeny tiny 1A breakers to power your
clock radio and other small devices with? Someone posted similar
nonsense a whlle back saying that because Grizzly recommended a 20A
line for their blurpfl that it would void the warranty to power it
with a 30A line. I recommended that person refrain from giving
electrical advice, obviously lacking a fundamental understanding of
it.

If you read my post, I said he could use it, but I wouldn't.
It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a breaker;

There's nothing wrong with that at all. The breaker is there to protect the
wiring, not what's plugged into it.

no one would argue with that except to be a jerk.

Wrong again -- people are arguing with that because it's a false statement.

The 1a clock on a 15a
circuit is not an appropriate analogy.

Of course it is. Only someone who doesn't understand the purpose of circuit
breakers would think otherwise.


You basically want to avoid running two tools on the same circuit (at the
same time of course).

Why is that? Do you have separate circuits for your food processor and
stand mixer? Geez, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Kitchens are required to have two circuits because it is not a good idea to
run a food processor and stand mixer on the same circuit at the same time.

Where do you come up with ideas like this? What's the problem with running a
7A food processor and a 5A stand mixer simultaneously on a 20A circuit? A
toaster and a microwave together, yes, that could be a problem, because each
could be pulling over 10A, but there's no problem at all with operating *many*
small devices simultaneously on the same circuit, as long as the combined
current draw does not exceed the capacity of the circuit.

If you only have one line it is okay if necessary, but only a moron wouldn't
try to avoid it.

Only a moron, or someone who doesn't understand electricity, would think it
has to be avoided at all costs.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:31:47 GMT, "toller" wrote:

If you read my post,

I did read it.

I said he could use it, but I wouldn't.

And I asked you why not.

It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a breaker;

Please cite a single reputable source that supports that nonsense.
Just one. Of course you won't be able to because any reputable source
is in direct conflict with your distorted concept of electricity.

no one would argue with that except to be a jerk.

If you consider someone disagreeing with a completely nonsensical,
unsupportable proposition being a jerk, then I'll wear the badge
proudly.

The 1a clock on a 15a circuit is not an appropriate analogy.

It's a perfect analogy. That you don't recognsize it is an indicator
that you don't understand electricity. I now believe it was you I
recommended not give any electrical advice. You clearly don't have a
clue about it. In fact, you are the very embodiment of why people
should take advice gleaned from the internet with a huge grain of
salt.

Friend of Doug's?

That would be fine with me. He knows what he's talking about with
regard to electricity. You don't.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

toller wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 04:51:20 GMT, "toller" wrote:

You can use that 240v outlet, but I don't think it is a good idea to put
a small tool on what is probably a 40a breaker.

Why not? Do you have a bunch of teeny tiny 1A breakers to power your
clock radio and other small devices with? Someone posted similar
nonsense a whlle back saying that because Grizzly recommended a 20A
line for their blurpfl that it would void the warranty to power it
with a 30A line. I recommended that person refrain from giving
electrical advice, obviously lacking a fundamental understanding of
it.

If you read my post, I said he could use it, but I wouldn't.
It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a
breaker;
no one would argue with that except to be a jerk. The 1a clock on a 15a
circuit is not an appropriate analogy.

So why is it OK to put a 1A clock on a 15A circuit but not on a 30A circuit?

You basically want to avoid running two tools on the same circuit (at the
same time of course).

Why is that? Do you have separate circuits for your food processor and
stand mixer? Geez, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Kitchens are required to have two circuits because it is not a good idea
to run a food processor and stand mixer on the same circuit at the same
time.

Why not?

The reason kitchens have two circuits is that they are used for cooking,
which often involves heating, using, in addition to the stove, things like
toaster ovens and microwave ovens and deep friers that draw a full 15 amps.

When the requirement for two circuits was put into the codes, nobody had
ever _heard_ of a "food processor".

If you only have one line it is okay if necessary, but only a moron
wouldn't try to avoid it.

Friend of Doug's?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article ,
"toller" wrote:

If you read my post, I said he could use it, but I wouldn't.
It is a bad idea to put a 10a load on a circuit protected by a 30a breaker;
no one would argue with that except to be a jerk. The 1a clock on a 15a
circuit is not an appropriate analogy.

It sure as hell is an appropriate analogy.

"Mark Cooper" wrote in message
news:1110945174.a3c2fd1b1ee0dcec10c4ff2019b0490e@t eranews...
I just acquired a new 6" jointer...the Craftsman which is made by Orion.
It has a (true) 1 HP motor and comes pre-wired for 110, but can be easily
rewired for 220. My questions a

1. What is the advantage of wiring for 220 vs. 110? Different Websites
say different things...some say the motor will run cooler, some say it
will run "better" (not defined!), some say it makes no difference
whatsoever. Opinions?


Makes no difference if line voltage drop were the same.

The difference for 220V is half the conductor size with half the current
draw. In other words with the same conductor size you could run your jointer
at twice the distance with 220V.


2. The 220 drop in my basement is the type with two straight prongs (at
an angle) and one L-shaped. The L-shaped prong carries the neutral.
(It's a 30-amp "dryer outlet.") The jointer's manual says I must connect
the ground wire to a true ground. My question is...if I connect the
ground wire to a neutral instead of a true ground, am I still properly
grounding the tool?


Don't connect the jointer to the 30A circuit. Maximum breaker size 15A as
your motor is only about 8A at 220V. I would not interchange ground with
neutral although the neutral is grounded at the main panel and the motor
should run. Neutral carries current while ground does not except during a
phase to ground short circuit. There should not be a neutral in your 220V
configuration - all you require is two phase conductors and a ground unless
your Craftsman wiring setup dictates otherwise. You need a 2-pole, 3-wire
grounding plug and a matching receptacle type NEMA 6-15 - verify with your
Craftsman instruction manual.




Total newbie here, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Kim wrote:
Don't connect the jointer to the 30A circuit. Maximum breaker size 15A as
your motor is only about 8A at 220V. I would not interchange ground with
neutral although the neutral is grounded at the main panel and the motor
should run. Neutral carries current while ground does not except during a
phase to ground short circuit. There should not be a neutral in your 220V
configuration - all you require is two phase conductors and a ground unless
your Craftsman wiring setup dictates otherwise. You need a 2-pole, 3-wire
grounding plug and a matching receptacle type NEMA 6-15 - verify with your
Craftsman instruction manual.



I had the local power utility repair a downed power line once and they
accidentally reversed the phasing, which in turn destroyed a 15 HP 220V 3 phase
Ingersol Rand air compressor I operated at work (caused it to run backwards and
the oil pump didn't pick up oil like it should).

Now, many years later, I'm dealing with 220V single phase power at the house.
Does it make any difference which conductor goes to which blade on a 220V plug?
Obviously the ground goes to the round prong but there are the two remaining
blades: one oriented vertically; the other hortizontally.

I would hate to make a dumb mistake just because I'm trying to save a few bucks.
I'm comfortable enough with 110V but this 220V stuff was something I'd always
let the electrician do.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

In article , "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:

I had the local power utility repair a downed power line once and they
accidentally reversed the phasing, which in turn destroyed a 15 HP 220V 3ph
Ingersol Rand air compressor I operated at work (caused it to run backwards and
the oil pump didn't pick up oil like it should).

Ouch. I hope they paid for repairs.

Now, many years later, I'm dealing with 220V single phase power at the house.
Does it make any difference which [hot] conductor goes to which blade on a 220V plug?

Not at all.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
I had the local power utility repair a downed power line once and they
accidentally reversed the phasing, which in turn destroyed a 15 HP 220V 3ph
Ingersol Rand air compressor I operated at work (caused it to run backwards
and the oil pump didn't pick up oil like it should).

Ouch. I hope they paid for repairs.


They did. I cost them quite a bit: that was a 5000 psi 15 cfm air compressor
originally designed to pump up the oleo struts of B-52s. I used it to fill
scuba cylinders.


Now, many years later, I'm dealing with 220V single phase power at the house.
Does it make any difference which [hot] conductor goes to which blade on a
220V plug?

Not at all.


Thanks very much. This 220V stuff is looking easier all the time.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Now, many years later, I'm dealing with 220V single phase power at the
house.
Does it make any difference which conductor goes to which blade on a 220V
plug? Obviously the ground goes to the round prong but there are the two
remaining blades: one oriented vertically; the other hortizontally.

No, 3 phase has to hit the motor in the right sequence. 240v is symetrical,
so the sequence is the same either way.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:04:13 -0800, "Kim" wrote:

The difference for 220V is half the conductor size with half the current
draw. In other words with the same conductor size you could run your jointer
at twice the distance with 220V.

Don't throw conductor size in the argument when debating 120V vs 240V
operation. If one is going to run 240V so one can use smaller
conductors, any possible advantage is lost, as you imply with your
"twice the distance" argument.

Don't connect the jointer to the 30A circuit.

Why not?

Maximum breaker size 15A as your motor is only about 8A at 220V.

Where do you get that from? And if there were some sort of
relationship to breaker size and load demand, why would 15A breaker
with an 8A load be okay but not 20A or 30A breaker?

The load demand has absolutely nothing to do with supply size unless
the load is more than the supply capacity.

Geez, where do you guys get this stuff?


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Geez, where do you guys get this stuff?

IEEE, NEC, short circuit and load flow studies, breaker/device
coordinations.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:40:45 -0800, "Kim" wrote:


Geez, where do you guys get this stuff?

IEEE, NEC, short circuit and load flow studies, breaker/device
coordinations.

You can blindly claim all the initialed documents you want, but cite
just one specific paragraph in any reputable regulatory document that
supports your statement: "[m]aximum breaker size 15A as your motor is
only about 8A at 220V."

That's pure nonsense, and I'll be the first to apologize ot you were
you to come up with something. Of course that's a safe promise,
because you not only can't, but you won't.

Local AHJs don't count as their specific requirements are not germane
to the discussion, but I'd be happy to see them if they do exist.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:40:45 -0800, "Kim" wrote:


Geez, where do you guys get this stuff?

IEEE, NEC, short circuit and load flow studies, breaker/device
coordinations.

You can blindly claim all the initialed documents you want, but cite
just one specific paragraph in any reputable regulatory document that
supports your statement: "[m]aximum breaker size 15A as your motor is
only about 8A at 220V."

That's pure nonsense, and I'll be the first to apologize ot you were
you to come up with something. Of course that's a safe promise,
because you not only can't, but you won't.

Local AHJs don't count as their specific requirements are not germane
to the discussion, but I'd be happy to see them if they do exist.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite



Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Here is a portion of your statement in context as related to the above:

"Maximum breaker size 15A as your motor is only about 8A at 220V.

Where do you get that from? And if there were some sort of
relationship to breaker size and load demand, why would 15A breaker
with an 8A load be okay but not 20A or 30A breaker?"

NEC Table 430-152, dependent on the motor type, the inverse time breakers
could go either 150%, 200% or 250% of motor load. In other words, if the
motor has no code letter, for example, you could go up to a 20A breaker
based on 8A motor running nameplate load. If the restriction falls on 200%
or 150%, then 15A CB only. But as a general practice the lowest breaker
setting should be used, hence 15A. There is no reason why, from a protection
point of view, you would want to use an 20A, 30A or larger breaker where a
15A breaker would do. 15A CB is what I would use.

And there we have it, after only 63 posts and counting!

May I be allowed an attempt to summarize:

If you convert to 220 volts by properly rewiring the motor, properly
connecting it to your 30 amp outlet, and if the wire to that outlet is
properly sized for 220 volts/30 amps and the outlet's distance from the
breaker panel, and if the circuit isn't loaded down with other power
consuming devices you haven't told us about, electrical theory and practical
observation indicates that you can expect to benefit from:

- your jointer coming up to speed more quickly after switching it on

- less likelihood of bogging down on (overly?) heavy cuts

- no dimming of shop and/or household lighting when jointer is switched
on or bogs down

- possibly improved life of jointer motor
(this one still hasn't been clarified to my satisfaction)

Compared to an alternative 120 volt, properly sized, dedicated circuit, the
improvements gained by a 220 volt conversion may not be so dramatic as when
the comparison is made to the usual 120 volt shared household circuit.

You should NOT expect to see

- less heat buildup (lower temperature) in the jointer motor

- greater maximum power from the jointer motor

- less use of electricity

You should verify that the jointer switch is of the DPST (double pole,
single throw) type and is motor rated.

This is what I understand based on all these posts. Guys, if I'm still
missing or mis-stating something, take your best shot :-)

David Merrill



"Mark Cooper" wrote in message
news:1110945174.a3c2fd1b1ee0dcec10c4ff2019b0490e@t eranews...
I just acquired a new 6" jointer...the Craftsman which is made by Orion.
It
has a (true) 1 HP motor and comes pre-wired for 110, but can be easily
rewired for 220. My questions a

1. What is the advantage of wiring for 220 vs. 110? Different Websites
say
different things...some say the motor will run cooler, some say it will
run
"better" (not defined!), some say it makes no difference whatsoever.
Opinions?

2. The 220 drop in my basement is the type with two straight prongs (at
an
angle) and one L-shaped. The L-shaped prong carries the neutral. (It's a
30-amp "dryer outlet.") The jointer's manual says I must connect the
ground
wire to a true ground. My question is...if I connect the ground wire to a
neutral instead of a true ground, am I still properly grounding the tool?

Total newbie here, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:28:59 GMT, "David Merrill"
wrote:

And there we have it, after only 63 posts and counting!

May I be allowed an attempt to summarize:

- possibly improved life of jointer motor
(this one still hasn't been clarified to my satisfaction)

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it
quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

This is what I understand based on all these posts. Guys, if I'm still
missing or mis-stating something, take your best shot :-)

I think you have probably summarized it accurately with the above
noted exception.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Wow......thanks everyone! (I think...)

I particularly appreciated the summary!

And as to whether or not the jointer turns out to be a Craftsman or a
Crapsman, I'll let everyone know after I've acquired the skills to know the
difference!



"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:28:59 GMT, "David Merrill"
wrote:

And there we have it, after only 63 posts and counting!

May I be allowed an attempt to summarize:

- possibly improved life of jointer motor
(this one still hasn't been clarified to my satisfaction)

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it
quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

This is what I understand based on all these posts. Guys, if I'm still
missing or mis-stating something, take your best shot :-)

I think you have probably summarized it accurately with the above
noted exception.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

LRod wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:28:59 GMT, "David Merrill"
- possibly improved life of jointer motor
(this one still hasn't been clarified to my satisfaction)

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it

I read this whole long thread and it did seem to be
implied somewhere, but I'm not going to go looking.

quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

I will offer this as a *possible* mechanism for longer life
at 240 vs. 120. The slower startup times increase the time
during which those windings are drawing more than normal current.
This will cause a little more heat and possibly shorten the
life of the motor by some small amount. I'm not even sure I
believe this myself, but maybe . . .

I think you have probably summarized it accurately with the above
noted exception.

I do agree here. His summary seems spot on with the above
all noted (and he noted it was an iffy point).

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

In article ,
LRod wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:28:59 GMT, "David Merrill"
wrote:

And there we have it, after only 63 posts and counting!

May I be allowed an attempt to summarize:

- possibly improved life of jointer motor
(this one still hasn't been clarified to my satisfaction)

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it
quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

Well, things aren't quite that simple. grin

"All else being equal" -- things like distance from the main breaker
panel, gauge of the distribution wire, etc. -- and which I must note
are usually _not_ equal ;

The 240v powered motor tends not to 'bog down' as much / as fast as the
120V powered one. This is attributable to the lower 'line losses' upstream
of the motor, resulting in what is effectively a "stiffer" power supply.

"Amps drawn" goes up as the load goes up, with the supply voltage remaining
constant.

*IF* the supply voltage does _not_ remain constant, but 'sags', the amps
drawn goes up even *more*, to compensate for the 'sag'.

A result of 'all of the above", plus some other things: voltage sag is
more pronounced and longer duration at 120V than 240V.

Such "parasitic' losses in the motor go up as the *square* of the current.

This _can_ have an adverse affect on motor longevity.

This is what I understand based on all these posts. Guys, if I'm still
missing or mis-stating something, take your best shot :-)

I think you have probably summarized it accurately with the above
noted exception.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:03:52 -0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
LRod wrote:

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it
quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

Well, things aren't quite that simple. grin

"All else being equal" -- things like distance from the main breaker
panel, gauge of the distribution wire, etc. -- and which I must note
are usually _not_ equal ;

Points I have often made about 120V vs 240V, some in this thread.

The 240v powered motor tends not to 'bog down' as much / as fast as the
120V powered one. This is attributable to the lower 'line losses' upstream
of the motor, resulting in what is effectively a "stiffer" power supply.

"Stiff" being exactly the term I used in this thread when describing
the supply issues.

"Amps drawn" goes up as the load goes up, with the supply voltage remaining
constant.

*IF* the supply voltage does _not_ remain constant, but 'sags', the amps
drawn goes up even *more*, to compensate for the 'sag'.

Which is not stiff...

A result of 'all of the above", plus some other things: voltage sag is
more pronounced and longer duration at 120V than 240V.

Such "parasitic' losses in the motor go up as the *square* of the current.

Yes, I referred to that earlier in this thread. I described it as
voltage drop is four times higher at 120V vs 240V.

This _can_ have an adverse affect on motor longevity.

I didn't connect those dots, but it's also not necessarily a realistic
expectation, either. I can't imagine trying to quantify the
difference.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

In article ,
LRod wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:03:52 -0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
LRod wrote:

I don't remember that being claimed, but I can dispense with it
quickly (I thought I already had in my original response). From the
standpoint of the motor windings, it's always running on 120V. Either
the windings are wired in parallel (120V supply) or the windings are
wired in series (240V). Since the motor windings are always seeing
120V it can't possibly have any different life expectancy based on the
input voltage.

Well, things aren't quite that simple. grin

"All else being equal" -- things like distance from the main breaker
panel, gauge of the distribution wire, etc. -- and which I must note
are usually _not_ equal ;

Points I have often made about 120V vs 240V, some in this thread.

The 240v powered motor tends not to 'bog down' as much / as fast as the
120V powered one. This is attributable to the lower 'line losses' upstream
of the motor, resulting in what is effectively a "stiffer" power supply.

"Stiff" being exactly the term I used in this thread when describing
the supply issues.

Aw shucks, we're having an *agreement*!!! Dammit!

"Amps drawn" goes up as the load goes up, with the supply voltage remaining
constant.

*IF* the supply voltage does _not_ remain constant, but 'sags', the amps
drawn goes up even *more*, to compensate for the 'sag'.

Which is not stiff...

"All things are relative". grin

A result of 'all of the above", plus some other things: voltage sag is
more pronounced and longer duration at 120V than 240V.

Such "parasitic' losses in the motor go up as the *square* of the current.

Yes, I referred to that earlier in this thread. I described it as
voltage drop is four times higher at 120V vs 240V.

This _can_ have an adverse affect on motor longevity.

I didn't connect those dots, but it's also not necessarily a realistic
expectation, either. I can't imagine trying to quantify the
difference.

Quantitative difference depends totally on the *precise* circumstances
involved.

Given _sufficiently_detailed_ information a quantitative evaluation of
reduction in life expectancy is possible. The thought of actually _getting_
said detail in a USENET posting is laughable. It is probably *not*
realistic to expect anyone to have, or be able to produce, sufficiently
detailed source data for such an analysis of a real-world situation.

That said, everything mentioned works _against_ life-expectancy at 120V,
relative to life-expectancy at 240V. 'Best possible case' scenario is that
120V operational life is "as long as" 240V life. If there are _any_
differences, they will be in favor of the 240V operation. "Empirical"
data, from motors in near-continuous use, under varying, but peaking fairly
heavily, load, indicates a 'few' percentage points of life expectancy in
favor of the higher-voltage operation.

I'm taking issue _only_ with the "_can't_possibly_ have _any_ effect on life
expectancy" part of your recent statement.

I'd agree totally with "*probably* won't have any -significant- effect..."

'Possible/probable minor increase in motor longevity' would, it seems to me,
qualify as "one more reason" to favor 240V over 120V wiring; *not*, however,
a 'compelling reason' to change, in and of itself.

Just wondering if Mark Cooper ever got his jointer going or if he was
too busy alternating between laughing and getting frustrated with the
whole flamejob that was going on over a simple question. lol

How'd it work out for ya, Mark?