I don't know about everyone here, but I still don't see a real
comprehensive analysis in the magazines with the features important to
me as to which router out there is really the best for a router table.
Here are the criteria I think are important. I know I have missed a
few, so I would be interested in other's enhancements.

* Router should have a tabletop height adjuster built in. (Why pay the
cost for a router lift today when so many have the feature. Some cost
more than the router!!)

* Router should have a good range for all bit types. (The router
should go down far enough for bits that just want to groove or need a
lot of range for their application and up far enough that they don't
need a bit extension.) I have a Dewalt DW625 that used to be touted as
a good router table router. It has a real problem with range and the
ability to go up high enough. I HAVE to have a bit extender which
amplifies the vibration. I also had to install a Router Raizer.

* Here is something that I don't see mentioned: The ability to release
the bit without turning 3 or 4 turns for the self release mechanism to
work. (Mark Sommerfield uses a Hitachi M12V that I think has that
feature)

* A bent wrench to remove the bit from top of the table. I made one
for my MLCS extender. I don't know how you can work without one.

* An accurate dial built in that allows you to make differential
adjustments from a given position.

* A hole for the height adjuster that does not fill in with sawdust
without having to cap the hole. (There can be a gap below the table to
allow the release of sawdust)

Has anyone used the new Milwaukee 3+ hp router with some of these
features? How about the new Porter Cable (890 series?)

You're looking for the perfect tool; it does not exist.
Some data on application (including the 5625) at the
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html link.
*********************************************
wrote:
I don't know about everyone here, but I still don't see a real
comprehensive analysis in the magazines with the features important
to
me as to which router out there is really the best for a router
table.
Here are the criteria I think are important. I know I have missed a
few, so I would be interested in other's enhancements.

* Router should have a tabletop height adjuster built in. (Why pay
the
cost for a router lift today when so many have the feature. Some
cost
more than the router!!)

* Router should have a good range for all bit types. (The router
should go down far enough for bits that just want to groove or need a
lot of range for their application and up far enough that they don't
need a bit extension.) I have a Dewalt DW625 that used to be touted
as
a good router table router. It has a real problem with range and the
ability to go up high enough. I HAVE to have a bit extender which
amplifies the vibration. I also had to install a Router Raizer.

* Here is something that I don't see mentioned: The ability to
release
the bit without turning 3 or 4 turns for the self release mechanism
to
work. (Mark Sommerfield uses a Hitachi M12V that I think has that
feature)

* A bent wrench to remove the bit from top of the table. I made one
for my MLCS extender. I don't know how you can work without one.

* An accurate dial built in that allows you to make differential
adjustments from a given position.

* A hole for the height adjuster that does not fill in with sawdust
without having to cap the hole. (There can be a gap below the table
to
allow the release of sawdust)

Has anyone used the new Milwaukee 3+ hp router with some of these
features? How about the new Porter Cable (890 series?)

I agree with your words of wisdom, Pat. I've wasted a lot of time
looking for the perfect tool, perfect woman, perfect bicycle, perfect
book, perfect whatever......

wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't know about everyone here, but I still don't see a real
comprehensive analysis in the magazines with the features important to
me as to which router out there is really the best for a router table.
Here are the criteria I think are important. I know I have missed a
few, so I would be interested in other's enhancements.

* Router should have a tabletop height adjuster built in. (Why pay the
cost for a router lift today when so many have the feature. Some cost
more than the router!!)

Right off the bat, this IMHO is not the best scenerio as it addresses this
situation and the one that you mention later about the adjustment hole
filling with saw dust.

The Triton has coarse and fine adjustments but you reach under the table to
make them. Simple. Why have to keep up with an above table adjustment
tool ot holes that fill with saw dust if you don't have to?


* Router should have a good range for all bit types. (The router
should go down far enough for bits that just want to groove or need a
lot of range for their application and up far enough that they don't
need a bit extension.) I have a Dewalt DW625 that used to be touted as
a good router table router. It has a real problem with range and the
ability to go up high enough. I HAVE to have a bit extender which
amplifies the vibration. I also had to install a Router Raizer.

The Triton has never left me with a problem of not being able to adjust the
bit any where I want. It can be used by hand as a fixed base or plunge base
router with the same base.

* Here is something that I don't see mentioned: The ability to release
the bit without turning 3 or 4 turns for the self release mechanism to
work. (Mark Sommerfield uses a Hitachi M12V that I think has that
feature)

With the Triton a 1/8 ~ 1/4 turn of the wrench and the bit is tight or
totally loose.

* A bent wrench to remove the bit from top of the table. I made one
for my MLCS extender. I don't know how you can work without one.

The Triton comes with a bent wrench for removing the bit from the top of the
table.

* An accurate dial built in that allows you to make differential
adjustments from a given position.

The Triton is adjusted with a large knob for coarse adjustments and a "screw
driver tipped looking" dial/knob that points so to speak for fine
adjustments. It can be easily turned, by feel and with out looking, in
1/4, 1/2, or full turn increments.

* A hole for the height adjuster that does not fill in with sawdust
without having to cap the hole. (There can be a gap below the table to
allow the release of sawdust)

Addressed above.

Has anyone used the new Milwaukee 3+ hp router with some of these
features? How about the new Porter Cable (890 series?)

I strongly considered the big Milwaukee when buying. I compared both side
by side and chose the Triton. Had the Triton not worked out for me I would
have returned it for the Milwaukee. I have 1 year from purchase to exercise
this decision. So far, the Triton is staying after 8 months of use.

The Triton also has a rocker switch that has a guard that keeps it from
automatically being turned on while a bit is raised/ lowered for removal.
The switch lights up when poser is connected. The Triton comes standard
with an edge guide fence for hand held use. The Triton Can be use as a
fixed base or plunge router with no base changes. The Triton has a feature
to easily remove the counter balance spring for under table use or replace
for hand held use as a plunge router. The Triton has variable speed numbers
on the dial that represent specific RPM's as indicated in the owners manual.
The motor shaft automatically locks for bit changes when the collet is
raised/lowered past the bottom of the base. The Triton is visually UGLY but
does every thing well IMHO. My Triton replaced a similar sized Bosch router
that I used in 3 separate router tables in the last 15 years.

2 in depth reviews of the Triton. Initially a couple of years there were
bugs to be worked out as indicated by the first review. These bugs have
been worked out and I have seen no problems personally with the newer
models.

http://www.mv.com/users/besposito/woodworking/triton/

http://www.mv.com/users/besposito/wo...on/update.html

Well, Pat, you seem to choose the Milwaukee 5625 for a router table,
which I suspected might be the best solution at this time. My question
to you would be what is your reluctance to choose the Hitachi M12V
which which seemed to be a favorite of Mark Sommerfield. What is its
plunge range like? What are the negatives of the 5625?

I have the 5615 body grip (a great router). Your discussion of the
range of routers in your link above is really interesting. Have you
ever put together a "Pat Warner specification for a router table
router"? As you point out in your article, a router table router is
essential and I bet many people (me included) put a router in one and
never take it out. So why not design one that is for that purpose only.

* Here is something that I don't see mentioned: The ability to release
the bit without turning 3 or 4 turns for the self release mechanism to
work. (Mark Sommerfield uses a Hitachi M12V that I think has that
feature)

The Hitachi requires about a 1/4 turn or less to release the bit.

wrote in message
oups.com...
As you point out in your article, a router table router is
essential and I bet many people (me included) put a router in one and
never take it out. So why not design one that is for that purpose only.


That would be called a shaper. A shaper would probably be cheaper than the
cost of a router, router lift, and router table.

Tue, Feb 22, 2005, 4:57am (EST-3) claims:
snip features important to me as to which router out there is really
the best for a router table. Here are the criteria I think are
important. I know I have missed a few, so I would be interested in
other's enhancements.snip

You said it, important to you.

For me, flat top on the router table, low enough to sit using it,
router that works. Viola, perfect. For me.

Make your own router table, the way you want it, put the router
want in it. Simple.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

Viola, perfect.

You make violas on a router table?

Cool !

Gus

egand, I completely agree with you on this!

When I checked out reviews of the Hitachi M12V on Amazon, there was one glaring problem noted by more than a few reviewers. The plunge mechanism likes to stick after a while in the table, necessitating removal, disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. Another little prob was the "cheesy" depth limiting adjustment hardware. But at $160.00 or so.....HTH. Tom

Tue, Feb 22, 2005, 5:35am (EST-3) says:
You're looking for the perfect tool; it does not exist. snip

But, he did get about the perfect answer. We could use that
response for a LOT of tool questions here



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

The Triton does appear to have most of the features. I hate to say it,
but you are right. It is ugly. I should not let that influence me,
but they could sure use an escellent industrial designer. I will read
your links. Thanks.

JT
I did build my own router table. Used a combination of several
people's ideas, some which you will recognize.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/0ce312c4.jpg

So, I did most of what you suggest. I just have not put the PROPER
router that I want in it...yet. But you all are helping me to decide.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't know about everyone here, but I still don't see a real
comprehensive analysis in the magazines with the features important to
me as to which router out there is really the best for a router table.
Here are the criteria I think are important. I know I have missed a
few, so I would be interested in other's enhancements.

* Router should have a tabletop height adjuster built in. (Why pay the
cost for a router lift today when so many have the feature. Some cost
more than the router!!)

I guess the perfect router could be built, the the lift overcomes many of
the shortcomings of the routers that exist. They have that long stroke you
want and the adjustments are extremely precisce and can be zeroed out from
any position..



* A bent wrench to remove the bit from top of the table. I made one
for my MLCS extender. I don't know how you can work without one.

I have a Bosch router in a Benchdog lift. Don't see the need for a bent
wrench, but maybe it is needed for other models. OTOH, I do need two
wrenches when with design changes it can be made to lock another way and
thus only use one.


A good lift sells for $239 to $359 or so. I wonder what it would add to the
cost of a router to add all those features into a single unit. Of course it
would have to be modular so the router motor could be easily replaced if it
craps out after a few years so as not to have to toss the entire works.
Then the mounting ate would have to be adjustable or replaceable to
accommodate all the various cutout sizes that exist. The answer to that
would be to have Microsoft make the router, thus setting the standard for
everyone

The downside is the ability for the weekender to grow slowly. First came
the router. Later came the table, much later came the lift. Doing it all
at once would have been more difficult.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:57:17 -0700, wrote
(in article .com):


I bought the 5625 (Milwaukee) just for a table (Thanks Pat!).
Anyhoo, like all routers it seems there is a fair amount of backlash in the
adjustment. Some of the fancy lifts solve this problem or give you a way to
accurately track the height ($$$). I think that a router designed exclusively
for use in a table is called a shaper 8^)

-Bruce

wrote in message
oups.com...
The Triton does appear to have most of the features. I hate to say it,
but you are right. It is ugly. I should not let that influence me,
but they could sure use an escellent industrial designer. I will read
your links. Thanks.


Well keep in mind that you will keep it hidden under the table. LOL

Disappointing. I thought that the backlash would not be an issue with
the Milwaukee because its weight would apply pressure to the lower part
of the thread. What am I missing here?

wrote in news:1109077037.534826.125480
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I don't know about everyone here, but I still don't see a real
comprehensive analysis in the magazines with the features important to
me as to which router out there is really the best for a router table.
....

The one other thing that's useful in a table router is to have a dust-proof
on/off switch.

I use the Bosch 1617 and I've had to clean out the switch three times in
the last year. It's annoying as heck. On the bright side it seems that
many 1617 users have this problem, and the fixes are described here on the
Wreck.

A good lift sells for $239 to $359 or so.

The Woodpeck plungelift is about half that ($129). Add a Hitachi MV12 for
$160 or so and you have a powerful, decent setup for less than the cost of
some of the other lifts.

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message

I use the Bosch 1617 and I've had to clean out the switch three times in
the last year. It's annoying as heck. On the bright side it seems that
many 1617 users have this problem, and the fixes are described here on the
Wreck.


Do you use the switch? Mine was turned to "on" the day it was hung and
never touched again as I use an external switch. Maybe that would solve
your problem. I would also think that Bosch would have a simple fix as it
seems to be a common problem

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:26:36 -0700, wrote
(in article .com):

Disappointing. I thought that the backlash would not be an issue with
the Milwaukee because its weight would apply pressure to the lower part
of the thread. What am I missing here?


It's not as bad as it sounds, just that if you are creeping up on a height
for raised panels or something where a 0.005" difference will ruin it, the
standard proceedure when you overshoot is to back off and approach the height
again versus just backing off.

(Whew! long sentence!)

-Bruce

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
news:_q0Td.61209$8a6.2718@trndny09:


"Nate Perkins" wrote in message

I use the Bosch 1617 and I've had to clean out the switch three times
in the last year. It's annoying as heck. On the bright side it
seems that many 1617 users have this problem, and the fixes are
described here on the Wreck.


Do you use the switch? Mine was turned to "on" the day it was hung
and never touched again as I use an external switch. Maybe that would
solve your problem. I would also think that Bosch would have a simple
fix as it seems to be a common problem



Yep, unfortunately I just have the single router with the combo base ... so
I pull out the motor when I use it with the plunge base.

I need to rebuild my router table and improve the dust collection. Right
now the motor is under the table, and the area under the table is sealed.
There is dust collection built into the fence, but any dust that gets down
under the table just makes a mess (and gets into the switch).