Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

What would you do and what's typical practice?

The main source of rough lumber that I use is in Phoenix, AZ and they very
accurately measure the width and length and charge by the bdft regardless of
the piece being 2" wide or 12" wide. This should be the common practice if
they are stating that their wood is being sold by the bdft.

--
John Voss
Prescott Valley, AZ

Remove "NO SPAM" to reply.

How thick were the boards? It sounds like you bought 4/4 lumber and they
just took the width and length for the calculations. Assuming the thickness
was 4/4 or 1", you don't need to add it to your calculations.

They should not have rounded up to the next 1/4", in my opinion. My
lumberyard is very good when they measure. at $6.20/bft the 5.5" board
should have been $2.84/linear ft. ((5.5 * 12)/144)*6.20. At 6" the per
linear foot should be $3.10/ linear foot ((6 * 12)/144) * 6.20

Same goes with the larger board. $3.49/linear foot for 6.75" and
$3.62/linear foot for 7" boards.

Seems to me you paid a little more than what you were told.

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
om...
Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

The operative word is "nominal." Your 5.5" board ran through the ripsaw at,
or close to 6" in width, green. And so it is charged as a nominal 6" from
there out. He probably paid for it the same way, if he got it from a
wholesaler rather than a kiln.

I prefer shopping at the source, where they jam the boards between the wheel
wells of the pickup, measure the distance, and multiply by layers. Your guy
had to pay a couple of other stages.

When you come to the UP to snowmobile, leave room on the trailer to get your
S&B cherry for ~2.00.

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
om...
Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:37:12 -0700, John A. Voss wrote:

What would you do and what's typical practice?

The main source of rough lumber that I use is in Phoenix, AZ and they very
accurately measure the width and length and charge by the bdft regardless
of the piece being 2" wide or 12" wide. This should be the common
practice if they are stating that their wood is being sold by the bdft.

Hey John,

What's your Phoenix source? I found Chandler Hardwoods about a year and a
half ago and have been happy with the selection and pricing.

-Doug

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:24:56 -0600, Australopithecus scobis wrote:

Is that lumberyard still across the street from Ortega's? Is Ortega's
still there?

Where is/was Ortega's? Chandler Hardwoods is at the south end of the
Chandler airport on a dirt road (Adams).

-Doug

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:34:12 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:24:56 -0600, Australopithecus scobis wrote:

Is that lumberyard still across the street from Ortega's? Is Ortega's
still there?

Where is/was Ortega's? Chandler Hardwoods is at the south end of the
Chandler airport on a dirt road (Adams).

-Doug
Doug,
I have never heard of them. Do they do retail or are they wholesale? I
buy most of my wood at Woodworkers Source or when all I need is sheet
Timber on Southern. But I'm always looking for a new place to shop.
Ed

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:54:15 -0700, ns wrote:

Doug,
I have never heard of them. Do they do retail or are they wholesale? I buy
most of my wood at Woodworkers Source or when all I need is sheet Timber
on Southern. But I'm always looking for a new place to shop. Ed

The one man supplier doesn't advertise, even in the phone book, as he says
he says he has all the biz he wants. I think he lives behind the
warehouse/barn. He sells to anyone, and always asks if I have a tax number
or not (not). Go east from Arizona Ave on Queen Creek past McQueen. Turn
right on Adams, a dirt road. Chandler Hardwoods is a few hundred yards
down the road on the left.

He also carries sheet goods with hardwood veneers such as cherry, oak,
mahogany, walnut, maple, birch,... as well as exotics.

-Doug

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:24:56 -0600, Australopithecus scobis
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:01:27 -0700, Doug Winterburn wrote:

What's your Phoenix source? I found Chandler Hardwoods about a year and a
half ago and have been happy with the selection and pricing.

Is that lumberyard still across the street from Ortega's? Is Ortega's
still there?

If it is that's another reason for the trip.

--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?

Hi Larry,

If the wood you got was S2S or better, then you got what you paid for.
If it was rough (i.e., you have to plane & joint the sides to get it
workable, then you were overcharged somewhat). There is about 10% waste
in getting the rough stuff to the fine stuff.

At my local orange Borg, red oak is about $6+ / sq ft (board ft in the
rough), so your cherry seems like a pretty fair price to me.

Personally, I would take this as a (cheap) lesson in wood purchasing so
that the next time you go there, you know up-front exactly what you are
paying for. Don't write off a convenient source of quality wood for a
few $ and a one time purchase.

Lou

In article , Larry Bud
wrote:

Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
om...

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

His measurements agree with the standards of the American Hardwood
Association. So, no you were not cheated.
Jim

On 30 Nov 2004 10:54:47 -0800, (Larry Bud)
wrote:

Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

Couple of thoughts here- first, it's always possible that the guy who
did the pricing was a newer employee that didn't know what in the heck
he was doing yet- it could have been a perfectly honest mistake.
Second thought is that sometimes it's better to keep quiet about it-
at least once. When I first started buying lumber from my local
hardwood dealer, I was a little suspicious of the measurements and
pricing, but after buying there for a couple of months and getting to
know the employees a little (and helped one of them build his shop) I
started to get some really nice deals- a couple of free bf here and
there, a friendly eye pealed for nicely figured wood at the bottom of
the stack, etc. I don't know that it's a "common" practice for lumber
yards to skew the prices, but if they'll skew them one way, odds are
you can get them to skew them the other way with a little patience.
Obviously, it's not worth it if they're severely overcharging you on a
regular basis, but it's worth a shot- especially since you said
they're 1/2 the price of the other yards.


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

"Larry Bud" wrote in message

What would you do and what's typical practice?

A friendly "que paso?" on the spot ... being silent won't solve the problem
if you want to do continue doing business there.

Even when changing salesman in a place I do business in all the time, I'll
take a calculator and figure board feet 'my way' before I even have him come
out and tally. Then a "I've got about 53 bf of quarter sawn white oak picked
out that I need you to write up", will let you discuss any calculating
discrepancy without rancor. But it's nice to know what the general industry
practice in your area with regard to rough lumber and nominal sizes to avoid
****ing matches.

IME, it does seem that many "retail" hardwood dealers are like banks in that
their "mistakes" are rarely in your favor, and, as with banks, it's the
folks who don't look out for themselves who get shafted.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

In article , "Jim" wrote:

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
. com...

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

His measurements agree with the standards of the American Hardwood
Association. So, no you were not cheated.

The measurements might agree with the AHA, but what he was charged doesn't
match the quoted price of $6.20 / BF: $3.38 per foot for 6" lumber is $6.76
per BF, and $3.94 per foot for 7" lumber is $6.75 per BF.

One possible explanation for the discrepancy, though, is that lumber priced at
$6.20 per BF in the rough might very well be $6.75 S4S.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

On 30 Nov 2004 10:54:47 -0800, (Larry Bud)
wrote:

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards.

It's reasonable to round up on the measurement, but not on the price
break. You pay a premium price because you can get a _usable_ width
from it, not because it's a whisker over the smaller size.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 30 Nov 2004 10:54:47 -0800, (Larry Bud)
wrote:

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards.

It's reasonable to round up on the measurement, but not on the price
break. You pay a premium price because you can get a _usable_ width
from it, not because it's a whisker over the smaller size.

I've found it pays to compute the BF yourself and verify that the
number the yard comes up with matches your calculations before you pay
for it. I've had orders come out almost double the price I calculated
because they mis-measured (calling something 8/4 instead of 6/4 not
only gives you 1/3 more BF, but at a premium price per BF as well).

(Larry Bud) wrote in message . com...

Larry, where are you in SE mich? I'm in West Bloomfield and get all
our hardwood from Armstrong Millworks on in Highland on Highland Rd
(248) 887-1037.

They are a great family owned business with some of the friendliest
people you could ever meet. their selection is superior to any i've
found in southern michigan. their prices are great. they also offer
milling services if you are not set up to do it yourself. they get
next to nothing to mill the rough lumber for you. My shop has
everything to surface our lumber, but i have them do it most of the
time now because they do in 1o minutes what takes me a couple hours
and might cost be $12 to surface 100bf or so. it may be a long way
for you, but give it a try sometime, you wont be disappointed.

You could also try general hardwood. it's down your way but the
people that work there will treat you like a second class citizen, you
dont get to pick your own boards, they have a $300 minimum order, and
you have to call your order in ahead of time (usually a full day).

i get to Armstong once or twice a week. if you ever need something
small and dont want to drive, shoot me an email. i could probably
pick it up for you and meet you half way between w bloomfield and
detroit.

finally, in answer to your actual question, these guys are fair to a
fault. i stopped checking there measurments years ago. they always
adjust footage if you pull a board that has a section that wont be
useable

-sean


Went to a new lumber yard (for me) that quoted me $6.20/bd ft over the
phone for Cherry. I picked out 4 boards, the guy meausured them,
wrote down the sizes which I handed to the clerks. After he gave me
the total, I questioned the total because it didn't quite seem right
to me. He again said $6.20/bd ft. Not having my calculator handy, I
accepted it...

Well, it turned out I was robbed of about $14 on what should have been
$103 order (I paid $117 + tax).


These guys were still 1/2 price of other ripoff lumber yards in the
Detroit Area (I went to Public Lumber Co on 7-Mile and I-75, FWIW) so
I would probably go back there, unless of course, this was a total con
job.

What would you do and what's typical practice?

"George" george@least wrote in message ...

where in the UP. have a place in Luce County.

When you come to the UP to snowmobile, leave room on the trailer to get your
S&B cherry for ~2.00.

(Larry Bud) wrote in
om:

When I got back to work I looked more closely at the receipt, and he
charged me per linear foot, where he rounded the 5.5" widths to 6" and
the 6.75" width to 7", which commanded an even higher price / LF than
the 6" boards. Total turned out to be $3.38/LF for the 6" and
$3.94/LF for the 7".

It's not worth it to me to drive back there for $14 or for a couple of
extra board feet, but is this typical practice or did they just see a
wood novice/sucker?

I don't think you were cheated per se, but that's an unfriendly
practice by a company that's not looking for repeat business.

One of the local places measures to the 1/8" in width and to the
inch in length when figuring bd ft, and they don't allow much for
wane or splitting if present. Most everyone else figures to the
inch (rounding down) for width, and the half foot (rounding down
again) on length. They don't have to do it that way, but allowing
something for irregular boards is just being sensible. I don't go
to the first place much, it's not worth the aggravation. (btw,
this is all rough lumber...figuring to the exact half inch might
make more sense for S4S).

BTW, having a table of conversion between bd ft and linear feet
isn't that uncommon, altho 6.20/bd ft should have been 3.10/LF
for 6", not 3.38, so they were playing you a bit sharp there, too.

John

In article , John McCoy
wrote:

One of the local places measures to the 1/8" in width and to the
inch in length when figuring bd ft, and they don't allow much for
wane or splitting if present. Most everyone else figures to the
inch (rounding down) for width, and the half foot (rounding down
again) on length. They don't have to do it that way, but allowing
something for irregular boards is just being sensible. I don't go
to the first place much, it's not worth the aggravation. (btw,
this is all rough lumber...figuring to the exact half inch might
make more sense for S4S).

At the local place I buy from (there are really only two choices and
the other one doesn't stock as much variety or volume) they take out a
tape measure and a calculator. They may round to 1/4" on width, but if
they do it's down.

Alger.

Go to timber products near Shingleton.

"RemodGuy" wrote in message
om...
"George" george@least wrote in message
...

where in the UP. have a place in Luce County.

When you come to the UP to snowmobile, leave room on the trailer to get
your
S&B cherry for ~2.00.