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| Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
| Reply |
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#1
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Link belts, are they REALLY noisy
My local bearing supplier sells Jason Industrial green linkbelts
similar to the machined pulley/link belt tune up kits with the Fenner Drives PowerTwist line. Mostly I wanted to get rid of the motor hop when the brake kicks on, but the extra noise with this belt turns me off. It does absorb the motor hop very well. Photo he http://alan.firebin.net/images/link_belt.jpg for those on a fast connection, some 4 meg movies files to hear the difference. Requires QuickTime http://alan.firebin.net/images/link-belt.mov http://alan.firebin.net/images/v-belt.mov I've only run the belt for about 2 minutes, VERY load. Alan |
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#2
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It looks as though your saw passes the nickel test with the
belt on the table. How does it do with the belt on the sheaves? UA100 |
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#3
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Unisaw A100 wrote in
: It looks as though your saw passes the nickel test with the belt on the table. How does it do with the belt on the sheaves? UA100 Watch the video and hear the difference. The saw might vibrate a bit more with the Jason link belt, but the motor brake is not noticeable. When the motor breaks, it is enough to move the arbor against the bearings a few thousands. For weeks the blade would throw off pieces from the ZCI at brake time. Alan |
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#4
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"Alan W" wrote in message om... Mostly I wanted to get rid of the motor hop when the brake kicks on, but the extra noise with this belt turns me off. It does absorb the motor hop very well. I listened to your movies and you are right. Its LOUD. I'm wondering if you installed it backward. Having said that, your saw really makes a jolt when it shuts down. Has it always done that? What kind of saw is it? I think I'd disable the brake if that's possible. Bob |
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#5
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Better link belting, made of leather and metal studs as the hooks and they don't touch the pulley, which would cause noise. Different sizes and I bought one myself but I never put it to use. I have not found these belts in the America's. Reasonable prices and fast shipping. I think the leather will be much less noisy. http://www.lathes.co.uk/ Alex |
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#6
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"Bob" wrote in
hlink.net: "Alan W" wrote in message om... Mostly I wanted to get rid of the motor hop when the brake kicks on, but the extra noise with this belt turns me off. It does absorb the motor hop very well. I listened to your movies and you are right. Its LOUD. I'm wondering if you installed it backward. Having said that, your saw really makes a jolt when it shuts down. Has it always done that? What kind of saw is it? I think I'd disable the brake if that's possible. Bob The motor is a 2hp grizzly upgrade. Someday I may take it in to have it disabled. Anyone have the red Fenner Drives PowerTwist on their saw and can comment on the amount of noise? Alan |
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#7
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:24:09 GMT, A Womack
wrote: The motor is a 2hp grizzly upgrade. Someday I may take it in to have it disabled. Anyone have the red Fenner Drives PowerTwist on their saw and can comment on the amount of noise? I had one on a contractor's saw, and there was no noticeable difference compared to a v-belt. My band say dosen't sound any different, either. I have standard belts on my 3 HP cabinet saw, but plan on installing red link belts when I get tired of the pop. Barry |
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#8
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Unisaw A100 wrote:
A Womack wrote: Anyone have the red Fenner Drives PowerTwist on their saw and can comment on the amount of noise? I have them on my band saw and they aren't noisy. On the other side of the coin, I have the green ones. On my metal-cutting bandsaw, they reduced the vibration DRAMATICALLY, and they're a little quieter (or maybe it's just because stuff two towns over is no longer vibrating sympathetically...) OTOH, I the green stuff on my little 36"/6" belt sander and it is N N O ISY. (OK, i rean out of patience. rean. sheesh. I'm glad N N N N N N N N N N N N NNN N N I'm not in the shop at the mometnsn. I'm wever so slightly abrevitated. Ooooops.) -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/ |
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#10
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This is the first time I've heard anyone else complain about the noise
besides me. I originally put Fenner belt on my Craftsman contractor saw and it sounded just like yours, if not louder. I've also put it on my restored 1955 Delta/Rockwell 6" joiner, and it's a screamer, too. What do they have in common? Both of those tools have/had a very small diameter sheave at one end. My theory is that forcing the belt around a tight radius may be causing the *ends* of the links to rub against each other. I also have Fenner belt on my Delta 14" BS and it doesn't make the noise. It also has larger sheaves at both ends. Just my $.02. -- Mike "Alan W" wrote in message om... My local bearing supplier sells Jason Industrial green linkbelts similar to the machined pulley/link belt tune up kits with the Fenner Drives PowerTwist line. Mostly I wanted to get rid of the motor hop when the brake kicks on, but the extra noise with this belt turns me off. It does absorb the motor hop very well. Photo he http://alan.firebin.net/images/link_belt.jpg for those on a fast connection, some 4 meg movies files to hear the difference. Requires QuickTime http://alan.firebin.net/images/link-belt.mov http://alan.firebin.net/images/v-belt.mov I've only run the belt for about 2 minutes, VERY load. Alan |
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#11
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Mike Fairleigh wrote:
I've also put it on my restored 1955 Delta/Rockwell 6" joiner, and it's a screamer, too. I have the Fenners on my also restored '57ish Delta 6" jointer. One of the things I noticed was that the belt rubs up against the cast iron machine pulley guard. I've had the motor out of the machine so long I can't remember if it was loud or not. I do though share your theory on the sheave diameter being maybe the cause. UA100 |
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#12
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:01:36 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote: Mike Fairleigh wrote: I've also put it on my restored 1955 Delta/Rockwell 6" joiner, and it's a screamer, too. I have the Fenners on my also restored '57ish Delta 6" jointer. One of the things I noticed was that the belt rubs up against the cast iron machine pulley guard. I've had the motor out of the machine so long I can't remember if it was loud or not. I do though share your theory on the sheave diameter being maybe the cause. UA100 That reminds me! G The OP should look closely at the entire belt path. I remember my red link belt rubbing a cover on the contractor's saw, creating a loud whine. For the next 4 years, I used the saw without the cover, and the saw was very quiet. The link belt was a tad wider than the standard belt, so ever so gently rubbed the cover. I totally forgot about tossing that cover! Barry |
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#13
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Ba r r y wrote:
the saw was very quiet. The link belt was a tad wider than the standard belt, so ever so gently rubbed the cover. I totally forgot about tossing that cover! A related note on both scores... I had to ditch the cover/dust channelling mechanism on my sander because the (green) belt was going to eat a hole in it. That helped the noise considerably, but it's still LOUD. It has small pulleys, and it's under enormous tension to compensate for the fact that it's replacing an unobtainable toothed belt that used to drive more with teeth than tension. The extra tension surely makes it that much worse. I expect it to die someday so I have an excuse to buy another sander, but it has actually lasted like this for years. Probably because it's incredibly obnoxious to use now, and I don't use it any more than absolutely necessary. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/ |
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#14
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Alan W wrote...
I've only run the belt for about 2 minutes, VERY loud. Link belts can be a good thing, but they are not a panacea. Here's my web page about them: http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts Something does seem to be wrong in your setup; it's much noisier than it should be. Double-check that belt is not on backwards and make sure the belt is the right size. Some sheaves don't take A-size belts. Check the entire belt path that nothing is rubbing anywhere. If your saw takes multiple belts, neighboring ones could be rubbing on each other. Also in this case, be sure that all the belts should have the same number of links. Another potential problem is "non-co-planar" sheaves. Check with a straight edge against the sides of the sheaves, or sight along the belt path (with a mirror if needed). That's what comes to mind first. Good luck, Jim |
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#15
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"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
... Mike Fairleigh wrote: I've also put it on my restored 1955 Delta/Rockwell 6" joiner, and it's a screamer, too. I have the Fenners on my also restored '57ish Delta 6" jointer. One of the things I noticed was that the belt rubs up against the cast iron machine pulley guard. Grrrr, if I had the guard, I s'pose I'd have *that* problem to contend with, too. Lacking it, I just keep my hands clear  Mike |
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#16
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I was able to cut the noise some buy shortening the belt and therefore
making it tighter, as only the weight of the motor tensions the belt. I had to take the Jason Industrial link belt off the saw. The green belt was not able to transmit the full power of the motor when cutting some beech tonight, only 3/4" with my WWII. I will take back the belt and see if they have any PowerTwist belt to try. Last time they only had a 100' lenth! Ouch Alan |
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#17
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:20:25 GMT, Jim Wilson
wrote: Alan W wrote... I've only run the belt for about 2 minutes, VERY loud. Link belts can be a good thing, but they are not a panacea. Here's my web page about them: http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts Something does seem to be wrong in your setup; it's much noisier than it should be. Double-check that belt is not on backwards and make sure the belt is the right size. Some sheaves don't take A-size belts. Check the entire belt path that nothing is rubbing anywhere. If your saw takes multiple belts, neighboring ones could be rubbing on each other. Also in this case, be sure that all the belts should have the same number of links. Another potential problem is "non-co-planar" sheaves. Check with a straight edge against the sides of the sheaves, or sight along the belt path (with a mirror if needed). That's what comes to mind first. Good luck, Jim Jim.. thanks for the link, I enjoyed your web site and learned a few more things.. I'm unclear about applications for link belts... do they only replace flat or V belts, or can they be used on geared setups that have "steps" on the inside of the belts.. One of your pictures seemed to be on a machine using a geared belt, but I wasn't sure.. I have an old PowerKraft RAS and just found out that the sucker uses a belt... had it for a few months and just figured that it was direct drive until the belt started slipping... It seems to be time to get a replacement belt and I was wondering if it would be an advantage to go with a linked belt? (also, it might be a bitch getting a stock belt) |
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#18
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Folks havementioned they may not do so swell with small pulleys. You
can find almost any belt at McMaster Carr if you happen to be in the USA. mac davis wrote: On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:20:25 GMT, Jim Wilson wrote: Alan W wrote... I've only run the belt for about 2 minutes, VERY loud. Link belts can be a good thing, but they are not a panacea. Here's my web page about them: http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts Something does seem to be wrong in your setup; it's much noisier than it should be. Double-check that belt is not on backwards and make sure the belt is the right size. Some sheaves don't take A-size belts. Check the entire belt path that nothing is rubbing anywhere. If your saw takes multiple belts, neighboring ones could be rubbing on each other. Also in this case, be sure that all the belts should have the same number of links. Another potential problem is "non-co-planar" sheaves. Check with a straight edge against the sides of the sheaves, or sight along the belt path (with a mirror if needed). That's what comes to mind first. Good luck, Jim Jim.. thanks for the link, I enjoyed your web site and learned a few more things.. I'm unclear about applications for link belts... do they only replace flat or V belts, or can they be used on geared setups that have "steps" on the inside of the belts.. One of your pictures seemed to be on a machine using a geared belt, but I wasn't sure.. I have an old PowerKraft RAS and just found out that the sucker uses a belt... had it for a few months and just figured that it was direct drive until the belt started slipping... It seems to be time to get a replacement belt and I was wondering if it would be an advantage to go with a linked belt? (also, it might be a bitch getting a stock belt) |
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#19
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:17:07 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote: Folks havementioned they may not do so swell with small pulleys. You can find almost any belt at McMaster Carr if you happen to be in the USA. snip wow, that's quite a site! I'll have to measure the belt before going back t their page, I like the way it takes you a step at a time to (hopefully) the right belt.. BTW.. in USA, a few states west of ya.. Central Calif. |
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#20
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wow, that's quite a site! I'll have to measure the belt before going back t their page, I like the way it takes you a step at a time to (hopefully) the right belt.. BTW.. in USA, a few states west of ya.. Central Calif. What town? I live in southern central CA. 'bout 90 miles north from L.A. Alex |
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#21
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On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:02:56 -0800, "AAvK" wrote:
wow, that's quite a site! I'll have to measure the belt before going back t their page, I like the way it takes you a step at a time to (hopefully) the right belt.. BTW.. in USA, a few states west of ya.. Central Calif. What town? I live in southern central CA. 'bout 90 miles north from L.A. Alex We're in Clovis.. sort of a surrounded by Fresno... |
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#22
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We're in Clovis.. sort of a surrounded by Fresno... Just about west north west of me, Carpinteria here. Alex |
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#23
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mac davis wrote...
Jim.. thanks for the link, I enjoyed your web site and learned a few more things.. No sweat. Glad you found it useful. I'm unclear about applications for link belts... do they only replace flat or V belts, or can they be used on geared setups that have "steps" on the inside of the belts.. They are designed to run only on standard v-belt sheaves. One of your pictures seemed to be on a machine using a geared belt, but I wasn't sure.. None of my machines with a link belt have cogged pulleys. I was wondering if it would be an advantage to go with a linked belt? (also, it might be a bitch getting a stock belt) Like Jim B. suggested, McMaster-Carr is a good source. MSC (mscdirect.com) might have a better price on what you need, but with those two companies, it's often a toss-up. They are both excellent suppliers. Jim |
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#24
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Alan W wrote...
I had to take the Jason Industrial link belt off the saw. The green belt was not able to transmit the full power of the motor when cutting some beech tonight, only 3/4" with my WWII. Something is still amiss. Power transmission is not usually reduced by link belts. However, inadequate belt tension could certainly cause both the excessive noise and the observed power loss. Now I'd guess that the real problem is that link belts aren't well suited for applications where the belt tension can't be adjusted. I will take back the belt and see if they have any PowerTwist belt to try. Last time they only had a 100' lenth! McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) carries 5' lengths, but double-check with them that it is still the PowerTwist brand. They often don't list brand names in their catalog, and have been known to switch suppliers in the past. If low belt tension is the problem, though, switching brands probably won't help much. Good luck, Jim |
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#25
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On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 23:19:16 -0800, "AAvK" wrote:
We're in Clovis.. sort of a surrounded by Fresno... Just about west north west of me, Carpinteria here. Alex whoa! nice ocean/beach area... |
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#26
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whoa! nice ocean/beach area... Yeah, saw Meg Ryan a week ago tripping around on Linden ave., a piece of heaven. Alex |
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#27
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You might also look in the yellow pages for bearing, and belting
suppliers. They frequently have, or can get most anything you want/need. Jim Wilson wrote: Alan W wrote... I had to take the Jason Industrial link belt off the saw. The green belt was not able to transmit the full power of the motor when cutting some beech tonight, only 3/4" with my WWII. Something is still amiss. Power transmission is not usually reduced by link belts. However, inadequate belt tension could certainly cause both the excessive noise and the observed power loss. Now I'd guess that the real problem is that link belts aren't well suited for applications where the belt tension can't be adjusted. I will take back the belt and see if they have any PowerTwist belt to try. Last time they only had a 100' lenth! McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) carries 5' lengths, but double-check with them that it is still the PowerTwist brand. They often don't list brand names in their catalog, and have been known to switch suppliers in the past. If low belt tension is the problem, though, switching brands probably won't help much. Good luck, Jim |
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#28
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A Womack wrote in
Jason Industries responded to a tech request from my belt supplier to the recommendation of NOT using the link belt due to the small sheave size and recommended a AX series COG belt. Since I have been running a COG belt for a while now and it is quite, albeight quite good at transmitting the motor hop, I will be set. Alan |
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