Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Fri, Oct 1, 2004, 11:07pm (EDT-3)
(Florida=A0Patriot) spouts:
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.snip

So? Probably taken at different angles. And, even if not, they're
only politiciants, not people, so who cares? Why bother us with
political crap? Anyway, doesn't look like their lips are moving, so
they probably aren't lying.



JOAT
We will never have great leaders as long as we mistake education for
intelligence, ambition for ability, and lack of transgression for
integrity.
- Unknown

It's Fox "news" what do you expect??

Tony

www.votepair.org



"J T" wrote in message
...
Fri, Oct 1, 2004, 11:07pm (EDT-3)
(Florida Patriot) spouts:
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.snip

So? Probably taken at different angles. And, even if not, they're
only politiciants, not people, so who cares? Why bother us with
political crap? Anyway, doesn't look like their lips are moving, so
they probably aren't lying.



JOAT
We will never have great leaders as long as we mistake education for
intelligence, ambition for ability, and lack of transgression for
integrity.
- Unknown

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:08:24 -0400, tony1158 wrote:
It's Fox "news" what do you expect??

Yeah, there ya go Tony, don't bother looking at the evidence or
anything to see that it's clearly two different photos rather than
one that Fox modified; it's so much easier to disregard Fox as
someone you don't agree with and accept the troll's premise without
thinking.

Kerry is looking into his Bush's eyes in one photo and admiring the
windsor knot in his tie in the Fox photo.


On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 03:28:08 -0400, (J T)
wrote:

Fri, Oct 1, 2004, 11:07pm (EDT-3)
(Florida*Patriot) spouts:
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.snip

So? Probably taken at different angles. And, even if not, they're
only politiciants, not people, so who cares? Why bother us with
political crap? Anyway, doesn't look like their lips are moving, so
they probably aren't lying.



JOAT
We will never have great leaders as long as we mistake education for
intelligence, ambition for ability, and lack of transgression for
integrity.
- Unknown

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m


That's an example of FOX being "Fair and Balanced".

Bea Essor wrote:

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m


That's an example of FOX being "Fair and Balanced".

From Bush's expression in the Fox photo I surmise that Kerry's standing on
his toe, which is probably why he's standing a little straighter there.

Geez, would you people get a friggin' LIFE.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:06:17 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

From Bush's expression in the Fox photo I surmise that Kerry's standing on
his toe, which is probably why he's standing a little straighter there.

I like the Yahoo one
"Kerry pummels Bush into the floor with his Vulcan Death Handshake"

"Bea Essor" wrote in message


That's an example of FOX being "Fair and Balanced".



No, it is an example of what parallax is in photography. They are not the
same photo or the same camera or the same angle.
OTOH, who give a damn anyway?

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

The fox photo shows Bush after he whittled Kerry down during the debate.

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Easily explainable by camera angle and focal length. I won't bother
explaining since you would not listen.

Easily explainable by camera angle and focal length. I won't bother
explaining since you would not listen.

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera angle
is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't matter.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:07:46 -0700, "mp" wrote:

Easily explainable by camera angle and focal length. I won't bother
explaining since you would not listen.

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera angle
is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't matter.


It also depends upon where the subject(s) of the photo are as well. All
of which begs the question, why is this even an issue? There were other
photos presented as well. One may just as well excoriate UFPI for putting
up a photo that placed Bush in such an unfavorable light.

If this is the best you can come up with, then you strengthen my
confidence that Bush's re-election is assured.

Still no answer on all the voter fraud being perpetrated by the other
side, the registering of people dead for 25 years, the registration of
felons, the paying homeless to vote with cigarettes and/or McDonalds
lunches, the multiple voting attempts. Seems a whole lot more of a concern
than an allegedly modified picture that shows both candidates.

"mp" wrote in message

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera
angle is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't
matter.


If you honestly think it is the same photo, you have more perception
problems that can be solved in this newsgroup.

Remember the cartoons and puzzles from grammar school that had you find the
differences in the pictures? Perhaps you'd find them a challenge.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:fUY8d.1822$Ua.258@trndny04...

"mp" wrote in message

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera
angle is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't
matter.


If you honestly think it is the same photo, you have more perception
problems that can be solved in this newsgroup.

Remember the cartoons and puzzles from grammar school that had you find
the
differences in the pictures? Perhaps you'd find them a challenge.

Well said!

"GaryH" wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:fUY8d.1822$Ua.258@trndny04...

"mp" wrote in message

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera
angle is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't
matter.


If you honestly think it is the same photo, you have more perception
problems that can be solved in this newsgroup.

Remember the cartoons and puzzles from grammar school that had you find
the differences in the pictures? Perhaps you'd find them a challenge.


Well said!

Pawlowski misread mp's post and so attacked him for something he didn't say.

Then he insulted him personally without provocation.

Yeah, "well said." Right.

Well said!

I take it you too having reading comprehension issues.

You won't bother because you can't. In both images the vertical camera
angle is the same and any sublte difference in focal length doesn't
matter.


If you honestly think it is the same photo, you have more perception
problems that can be solved in this newsgroup.

I'm pretty confident of my level of visual literacy. I'm trained as a visual
professional and I can easily see things in photos that elude most others.
It's not me that has visual perception problems rather it's you that has
reading comprehension issues.

I did not say that the two images are the same photo. What I did say is that
the two images were photographed from the same vertical angle. In another
message in this thread I presented several simple visual clues that even you
can use to confirm this. The two photographers were very likely shooting
from the press gallery platform at the back of the hall, perhaps 10 or 15
feet apart. I'd estimate the effective focal length to be about 400-450mm.

Remember the cartoons and puzzles from grammar school that had you find
the differences in the pictures? Perhaps you'd find them a challenge.

I'm tempted to respond to your childish comment by telling you to go f*ck
yourself but that would mean lowering myself to your level, and I wouldn't
want to hurt your feelings, even if you are an *sshole.

"mp" wrote in message
...

I'm tempted to respond to your childish comment by telling you to go f*ck
yourself but that would mean lowering myself to your level, and I wouldn't
want to hurt your feelings, even if you are an *sshole.

Seems like you just did

OK, so maybe I misread and picked on the wrong guy. (that does not change
the facts though) I won't bother apologizing because you won't raise
yourself from the gutter to hear it anyway.

These are not the same photograph. Bush is of average height while Kerry is
tall, maybe 6'3." There's no issue here.

Bob

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

One can be paranoid, AND have people really out to get them...

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

(Florida Patriot) wrote in message om...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Fox also posted an article to its website that was completely
fabricated (later they called it a "joke").

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/lo...politics-print

That's fair and balanced for you.

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/lo...politics-print

That's fair and balanced for you.

well yes, it offsets Dan Rather. Both should have their asses kicked out.

Nobody takes Fox News seriously, they falsify everything.

http://www.geocities.com/julieearmstrong/fox.htm

On 2 Oct 2004 15:52:35 -0700, (Joey) wrote:

Nobody takes Fox News seriously, they falsify everything.

http://www.geocities.com/julieearmstrong/fox.htm


/begin clue #1
If this is the best you can come up with, you may as well pack up and go
home now. Frankly, it seems more believable that you are comparing two
different perspectives and camera angles -- did they also clone different
facial expressions on the two men?
/end clue #1

/begin clue #2
While I grant you that AP (Associated Press) is biased to the left and
can't write an objective story to save their lives, I wouldn't accuse them
of falsifying everything. Why is this important? Take a look at
foxnews.com, the bulk of their stories are taken from AP, thus, if Fox is
falisfying everything, by extension, AP must also be falsifying everything.
/end clue #2

(Joey) wrote in message . com...
Nobody takes Fox News seriously, they falsify everything.

http://www.geocities.com/julieearmstrong/fox.htm

Millions of people watch Fox as their only news source, and many of
those are convinced that only Fox is "fair and balanced."

p.s. I know your original comment was made tongue-in-cheek.

On 1 Oct 2004 23:07:42 -0700, (Florida
Patriot) wrote:

Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Not that you will answer this, since you are just a spamming troll, but
why is it that the first photo is the "real" one and the second "fudged"?
Couldn't it be the other way around?

Or, gasp considering that there is not conspiracy here, just a couple
of different camera angles?

Mark & Juanita wrote in message news:1096735856.mjMxl4mUxkVGULRV1RL45Q@teranews. ..
On 1 Oct 2004 23:07:42 -0700, (Florida
Patriot) wrote:

Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Not that you will answer this, since you are just a spamming troll, but
why is it that the first photo is the "real" one and the second "fudged"?
Couldn't it be the other way around?

Well, which candidate is taller in real life?


Or, gasp considering that there is not conspiracy here, just a couple
of different camera angles?

Here is what looks really peculiar to me. The vertical bar seen
on the blue background in both photos indicates that one was taken
from a position to the left or right of the other. But I cannot tell
if it is the same bar, or two different bars so I cannot tell the
direction of rotation. Kerry appears rotated between the two photos
but Bush does not, possibly both men moved between the photos, at
least one did. However, Bush does appear to be beside Kerry in
the FOX photo but in front of Kerry in the AP photo.

That should move Bush toward the foreground of the AP photo, making
him appear taller. But in fact, that is the photo in which he appears
shorter.

Unless the stage wasn't level...

--

FF

And this has WHAT to do with rec.woodworking? Oh.....yeah....Kerry's
wooden performance.

On 1 Oct 2004 23:07:42 -0700, (Florida
Patriot) wrote:

Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Florida Patriot did say:

Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Two different photos from two perspectives. You're a trolling idiot.

Two different photos from two perspectives. You're a trolling idiot.

Speaking of idiots, perhaps YOU should have another close look.

Indeed those are two different photos, but the vertical perspective between
the two images is virtually identical. The photographers were shooting from
the same vertical height but with some horizontal separation. The most
obvious clue is where the dark background meets the blue, at the level of
Kerry's eye. Note that it's the same in both photographs. Also look at the
bottom of Kerry's chin more or less even with the top of his shoulder, also
in both photographs. There's a lighter green section (visible with a levels
adjustment in photo editing software) that is at the level of Kerry's lips,
again, the same in both photographs. There are a few other visual clues as
well. All of them taken together proves without a doubt that the two images
were photographed from the same vertical height and the final crop shows a
virtually identical effective focal length between the two images.

A closer inspection of the Fox photo shows an irregularity on GW's torso
roughly from his jacket button extending down a couple of inches. This is
probably where GW's body was lengthened a few inches. If you look closely
you'll also see that his right forearm looks to be a couple of inches longer
than his left.

The angle of Kerry's arm is roughly the same in both images. Look at where
the hands meet, just below the "V" in Kerry's jacket. More or less the same
in both photos, but the angle of GW's arm is distinctly different in both
images. In the Fox image Kerry seems to be looking right at Bush. You would
expect eye contact, but Kerry's eyes are looking at Bush's upper lip. This
is exactly at the height of where Bush's eyes are in the undoctored photo.

Fair and Balanced? My ass. Fox is the most biased and misleading news
organization on the air and those who follow it are mindless sheep.

"mp" wrote in message
...


Fair and Balanced? My ass. Fox is the most biased and misleading news
organization on the air and those who follow it are mindless sheep.


Forgetting whether the photo is doctored or not, you think this is worse
than what Rather did recently, which, by the way, he has done in the past as
well?

dwhite

"mp" wrote in message
...
Two different photos from two perspectives. You're a trolling idiot.

Speaking of idiots, perhaps YOU should have another close look.


A closer inspection of the Fox photo shows an irregularity on GW's torso
roughly from his jacket button extending down a couple of inches. This is
probably where GW's body was lengthened a few inches. If you look closely
you'll also see that his right forearm looks to be a couple of inches
longer
than his left.

The angle of Kerry's arm is roughly the same in both images. Look at where
the hands meet, just below the "V" in Kerry's jacket. More or less the
same
in both photos, but the angle of GW's arm is distinctly different in both
images. In the Fox image Kerry seems to be looking right at Bush. You
would
expect eye contact, but Kerry's eyes are looking at Bush's upper lip. This
is exactly at the height of where Bush's eyes are in the undoctored photo.

Fair and Balanced? My ass. Fox is the most biased and misleading news
organization on the air and those who follow it are mindless sheep.


It doesn't take much to get you guys going, does it? This is the biggest
load of horse**** I've seen, and the resulting debate is ridiculous!

There wasn't any doctoring done on the photo. Go to the second link (the
one for Fox) and go through the 6 or 7 photos of the debate. The 4th photo
shows both candidates on the stage at their podiums. It is very easy to
determine a height difference exists. Wouldn't Fox need to doctor all of
the photographs? Are not most people aware Kerry is taller than average?
You are grasping here. Why don't you debate the positions of the
candidates, instead of this foolishness?

There wasn't any doctoring done on the photo.

You're stating your uninformed opinion as if it were a fact. There's plenty
of evidence that suggests it was doctored.

Go to the second link (the
one for Fox) and go through the 6 or 7 photos of the debate. The 4th
photo
shows both candidates on the stage at their podiums. It is very easy to
determine a height difference exists.

It's easy in a simplistic way. You're making some assumptions, such as the
horizon being level (its not). You're also assuming that the camera is
centered between the two podiums (it's not) and that the camera to podium
distance is exactly the same between each speaker (it's not). If anything,
the photo is skewed slightly towards exaggerating the height difference
between Kerry and Bush.

Wouldn't Fox need to doctor all of
the photographs?

So what. That's an hour's work for a rank beginner. I'm sure the
image-doctoring artists at Fox, with all their experience, are much faster
than that.

"mp" wrote in message
...
There wasn't any doctoring done on the photo.

You're stating your uninformed opinion as if it were a fact. There's
plenty
of evidence that suggests it was doctored.


It's easy in a simplistic way. You're making some assumptions, such as the
horizon being level (its not). You're also assuming that the camera is
centered between the two podiums (it's not) and that the camera to podium
distance is exactly the same between each speaker (it's not). If anything,
the photo is skewed slightly towards exaggerating the height difference
between Kerry and Bush.

Wouldn't Fox need to doctor all of
the photographs?

So what. That's an hour's work for a rank beginner. I'm sure the
image-doctoring artists at Fox, with all their experience, are much faster
than that.

mp,

As you say, "you're making assumptions". Why are you spending so much time
on a conspiracy theory about a photo? A photo! One of many photos shown on
the fox site, and it _is_ clear in the other photo Kerry has a height
advantage. You wouldn't have even known about the photo had you not read
the OP's (spelt - troll) post and jumped on the conspiracy theory. All you
are doing is giving the troll bandwidth, as the troll just posts - then
disappears. You are his/her puppet! It's a joke!! This is ridiculous!!!

"Gary" wrote in message ...


There wasn't any doctoring done on the photo. Go to the second link (the
one for Fox) and go through the 6 or 7 photos of the debate. The 4th photo
shows both candidates on the stage at their podiums. It is very easy to
determine a height difference exists. Wouldn't Fox need to doctor all of
the photographs?

No. Most people won't go through them like you did. I didn't until
you pointed that out.

BTW, thanks. I especially like the photo of McCain trying to cop
a feel off the Bush twins.

--

FF

(That'll get a lot more folks to look...)

"mp" wrote in message ...

You would
expect eye contact, but Kerry's eyes are looking at Bush's upper lip.

Probably Kerry was checking to see if Bush was lying.

--

FF

appears more likely that they were taken at different angles.

"Florida Patriot" wrote in message
m...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

(Florida Patriot) wrote in message om...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Two DIFFERENT photos, taken at two different instances. Put them side
by side and see the difference. In one photo Kerry is talking, Bush
has his mouth closed, and in the the other Kerry has his mouth half
way closed, and Bush is talking. They are also standing farther apart
in the Fox photo. Looks like the AP photo was taken a second later,
as Bush walked down a STEP, as you can see his right arm is bent more
in the photo. He is also leaning down a bit to his right.

So obviously you have no sense of what being objective is.

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
om...
(Florida Patriot) wrote in message
om...
Two photos. The FOX news photo makes Bush 3 inches taller.

AFP Photo on Yahoo:
http://tinyurl.com/6mkeu

Fudged Fox Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/6tu5m

Two DIFFERENT photos, taken at two different instances. Put them side
by side and see the difference. In one photo Kerry is talking, Bush
has his mouth closed, and in the the other Kerry has his mouth half
way closed, and Bush is talking. They are also standing farther apart
in the Fox photo. Looks like the AP photo was taken a second later,
as Bush walked down a STEP, as you can see his right arm is bent more
in the photo. He is also leaning down a bit to his right.

So obviously you have no sense of what being objective is.

At best, FOX chose the photo most flattering to Bush, despite the fact that
it gave an unrealistic impression.

At worse, they used a doctored photo. (Yes, the two photos are different,
but how do you explain the fact that Bush is so tall in the FOX photo?)