On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.




If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?

On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.

Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)


If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.

OK.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?

I got it. I hadn't seen the screws on dogs. The way my bench is
constructed I think it would be a PITA. Clamps (from the bottom) are
going to be a PITA too. How do you us them on your PAULK bench?

On 5/24/2021 7:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.

Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)

There is no appreciable difference.

Most of these MFT wtyle benches with holes are accurately laid out for
using dogs as stops for you track saw track. IMHO that is the most
obvious reason for snug fit dogs. Other wise a little play has never
been an issue for me.


There is also Armor Tools.

They make a MFT style work bench but it is mounted on wheels.
Something to think about, a bench on wheels will move more than a wobbly
MFT bench.

BUT the Armor bench is less expensive and has a pretty good clamp system
too. I got one of the horizontal clamps and it works well on the MFT too.


Check out their video

https://armor-tool.com/product/36x25...e-and-casters/




If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.

OK.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?

I got it. I hadn't seen the screws on dogs. The way my bench is
constructed I think it would be a PITA. Clamps (from the bottom) are
going to be a PITA too. How do you us them on your PAULK bench?


So the clamps are on top, the dog fits the hole and the retainer bolt
screws into the bottom of the dog. BUT you do not have to screw them
down. I mostly use mine just like any dog, drop it in.

I do not use them on my Paulk bench. My Paulk bench has no holes and
dogs would not work well in 1/2" material anyway so just hold down
clamps would work best.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:48:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 7:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.

Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)

There is no appreciable difference.

Most of these MFT wtyle benches with holes are accurately laid out for
using dogs as stops for you track saw track. IMHO that is the most
obvious reason for snug fit dogs. Other wise a little play has never
been an issue for me.


There is also Armor Tools.

They make a MFT style work bench but it is mounted on wheels.
Something to think about, a bench on wheels will move more than a wobbly
MFT bench.

Like I said, my benches are 30" doors on Kreg frames and castors. They
don't wobble at all. If all four casters are locked, it's not going
anywhere.

BUT the Armor bench is less expensive and has a pretty good clamp system
too. I got one of the horizontal clamps and it works well on the MFT too.

The butcher block top is nice. It's reasonable, too, but small.

Check out their video

https://armor-tool.com/product/36x25...e-and-casters/


I have two other 30" x 72" benches (in storage right now) with 1-3/4'
butcher block tops. Intend to put vises on them but the others were
intended to be for cutting and assembly. Right now they're holding
junk off the floor.