On 2/16/2021 10:32 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?



;!) LOL. Been there done that. I'm currently working on building
another Kapex miter saw.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?

That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:52:50 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 2/16/2021 10:32 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?



;!) LOL. Been there done that. I'm currently working on building
another Kapex miter saw.

Building?

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If I was attempting to use the gauge with a board that was wider than say 17",
enough of the gauge bar would be outside of the TS slot that it could start the
cut at an angle and eventually straighten out once the bar was fully engaged
in the TS slot.

The only way I know to ensure a straight cut from start to finish is to ensure
that the gauge bar is parallel to the blade right from the start. To me, that
means a properly sized slot on the infeed table.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:32:19 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.
Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?

Why would we need anything other than the miter gauge bar itself?

Seems to me that ~1/2 in the TS and ~1/2 in the infeed table would align
it perfectly. Put the gauge in backwards and you don't even have to
support it while clamping down the table.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

If I was attempting to use the gauge with a board that was wider than say 17",
enough of the gauge bar would be outside of the TS slot that it could start the
cut at an angle and eventually straighten out once the bar was fully engaged
in the TS slot.

The only way I know to ensure a straight cut from start to finish is to ensure
that the gauge bar is parallel to the blade right from the start. To me, that
means a properly sized slot on the infeed table.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.

Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

If I was attempting to use the gauge with a board that was wider than say 17",
enough of the gauge bar would be outside of the TS slot that it could start the
cut at an angle and eventually straighten out once the bar was fully engaged
in the TS slot.

The only way I know to ensure a straight cut from start to finish is to ensure
that the gauge bar is parallel to the blade right from the start. To me, that
means a properly sized slot on the infeed table.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?

However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...

Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?

Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?

However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...

What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.

Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.

And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?
Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?
However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...
What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.
Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.
And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.
All valid points...My miter gauge has a removable disc mounted to the underside of, and is slightly wider than, the bar. This engages in a slot || to the table top at the bottom of the miter slot (have seen it referred to as a "T" slot). This feature prevents the gauge from falling off the table before it is actually on the tablesaw surface. My 1970-ish Unisaw has this slot, my Taiwanese Delta KO does not...

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:17:01 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?
Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?
However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...
What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.
Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.
And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.

You don't have to pull it a foot off the table. If you do, you're
using the wrong tool, IMO.

All valid points...My miter gauge has a removable disc mounted to the underside of, and is slightly wider than, the bar. This engages in a slot || to the table top at the bottom of the miter slot (have seen it referred to as a "T" slot). This feature prevents the gauge from falling off the table before it is actually on the tablesaw surface. My 1970-ish Unisaw has this slot, my Taiwanese Delta KO does not...

Those are pretty much useless. At least my miter gauges aren't
symmetrical so as soon as the head is off the table, the bar twists in
the track. Not only doesn't it work this way but it may damage the bar
(or slot). I've removed them from my miter gauges.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 11:08:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:17:01 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?
Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?
However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...
What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.
Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.
And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.
You don't have to pull it a foot off the table. If you do, you're
using the wrong tool, IMO.
All valid points...My miter gauge has a removable disc mounted to the underside of, and is slightly wider than, the bar. This engages in a slot || to the table top at the bottom of the miter slot (have seen it referred to as a "T" slot). This feature prevents the gauge from falling off the table before it is actually on the tablesaw surface. My 1970-ish Unisaw has this slot, my Taiwanese Delta KO does not...
Those are pretty much useless. At least my miter gauges aren't
symmetrical so as soon as the head is off the table, the bar twists in
the track. Not only doesn't it work this way but it may damage the bar
(or slot). I've removed them from my miter gauges.
I really appreciate the disc for one main thing...keeps the gauge from dropping to the floor. Have not tried to use it for larger cross cuts...I fabbed a sled for that...

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 11:08:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:17:01 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?
Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?
However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...
What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.
Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.
And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.
You don't have to pull it a foot off the table. If you do, you're
using the wrong tool, IMO.
All valid points...My miter gauge has a removable disc mounted to the underside of, and is slightly wider than, the bar. This engages in a slot || to the table top at the bottom of the miter slot (have seen it referred to as a "T" slot). This feature prevents the gauge from falling off the table before it is actually on the tablesaw surface. My 1970-ish Unisaw has this slot, my Taiwanese Delta KO does not...
Those are pretty much useless. At least my miter gauges aren't
symmetrical so as soon as the head is off the table, the bar twists in
the track. Not only doesn't it work this way but it may damage the bar
(or slot). I've removed them from my miter gauges.
I really appreciate the disc for one main thing...keeps the gauge from dropping to the floor. Have not tried to use it for larger cross cuts...I fabbed a sled for that...

LOL! That brings us back to the original discussion. I believe the
mini-infeed table is good for keeping the miter jig on the table but
asking it to guide the bar is overkill. I don't like the T-slot tangs
either. I haven't thrown them away though.

I'm with you, though. If I need to crosscut something wider, I'll use
a sled or more likely, another tool (like a track saw).

On 2/17/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 11:08:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:17:01 -0800 (PST), Brian Welch
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:18:42 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 9:22:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:00:09 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:45:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:29:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:32:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.

Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?
That's really a side issue, IMO. I don't think the accurate extension
slot is needed at all, only support.

I too am curious as to why you say that. I have experienced the same thing
that Leon is describing. As more and more of my miter gauge bar is pulled
out of the TS slot, the more it wobbles from side to side.

If you're pulling the bar out that far, you're using the wrong tool.

That why I *don't* pull the bar out that far. I'm describing a test, not
a normal use.

If you don't use it, isn't it a little silly to test it that way?
Absolutely not. How do you think I know that it wobbles? I tried
to see if I could cut wider boards with the gauge extended beyond
the edge of the table and discovered that the gauge wobbled.
That's called a test.

Have you never tried to employ a technique that didn't work out?
A technique that failed the test?
However, a properly sized slot on a in-feed table would *allow* me to
to pull the bar out that far. A wide slot would not be any better than no
slot from a wobble perspective.

That's the whole point of what Leon and I are saying.
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think it's worth it
hanging up on any edge or any misalignment. ...more problem that it's
worth. Since you wouldn't use it that way either...
What do mean by "you wouldn't use it that way?"

Of course I would. That's the entire point of this discussion. I already
know that the miter gauge wobbles without side-to-side support so I
don't *currently* use it that way. If I had a infeed table with a properly
sized slot, I'd certainly use it.

Try this: Imagine that the infeed side of your TS provided 3 feet in front
of the blade. Don't you think the entire slot would be sized precisely for
the miter gauge bar to ensure that the bar stayed parallel to the blade
starting from the very front of the saw? Of course it would. That's exactly
how a clip on in-feed table should be.

What is it going to hang up on and how is it going to be misaligned? If that's
an issue, then it wasn't built correctly or installed properly.
Leon described the same problem in his defense of a properly sized
slot. He said: "If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth."

I got that.

The whole point of the properly sized slot is to allow for the use of miter
gauge on the in-feed table and have it be parallel to the blade (no wobble) even
when it is pulled partly out of the main TS slot. That's what would allow for wider
boards to be cut using the miter gauge as a guide.

The infeed table supports the board and the miter gauge, the properly sized slot
keeps the bar parallel with the blade.

I got all that. I just think it's more problem than it's worth.
And I think that it wouldn't work properly any other way.
You don't have to pull it a foot off the table. If you do, you're
using the wrong tool, IMO.
All valid points...My miter gauge has a removable disc mounted to the underside of, and is slightly wider than, the bar. This engages in a slot || to the table top at the bottom of the miter slot (have seen it referred to as a "T" slot). This feature prevents the gauge from falling off the table before it is actually on the tablesaw surface. My 1970-ish Unisaw has this slot, my Taiwanese Delta KO does not...
Those are pretty much useless. At least my miter gauges aren't
symmetrical so as soon as the head is off the table, the bar twists in
the track. Not only doesn't it work this way but it may damage the bar
(or slot). I've removed them from my miter gauges.
I really appreciate the disc for one main thing...keeps the gauge from dropping to the floor. Have not tried to use it for larger cross cuts...I fabbed a sled for that...

LOL! That brings us back to the original discussion. I believe the
mini-infeed table is good for keeping the miter jig on the table but
asking it to guide the bar is overkill. I don't like the T-slot tangs
either. I haven't thrown them away though.

I'm with you, though. If I need to crosscut something wider, I'll use
a sled or more likely, another tool (like a track saw).



HOWEVER the typical sled only allows a 90 degree cut. What if you want
to cut a wide panel " ON THE TS" at an angle for 30 or 45 degrees?

If you don't have a Dubby Jig or a Rockler copy of that jig or a track
saw, the miter gauge is the obvious choice.

On 2/16/2021 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:32:19 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.
Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?

Why would we need anything other than the miter gauge bar itself?

Seems to me that ~1/2 in the TS and ~1/2 in the infeed table would align
it perfectly. Put the gauge in backwards and you don't even have to
support it while clamping down the table.



That should work. Most often over thinking before doing can cripple the
process. Figuring out an alignment method after building a fixture
prevents a lot of wasted time in planing what might go wrong.

Sort'a on that premise, Nailshooter knows a few fellows that own a
Festool Domino. They have hardly use the tool because they are afraid
they might break it.

My Domino had cut over 10,000 mortises 3~4 years ago. Over 500 on the
current job.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:33:13 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 2/16/2021 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:32:19 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/13/2021 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at Woodcraft today, somehow the mind drifted to this discussion
while browsing in the toy store. Incra makes 18" and 24" zero-play
miter bars for about $20-$25. These should be long enough.

Maybe not! I have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge with the adjustable bar,
18" IIRC. If the miter gauge part is not over the TS top, it wobbles
back and forth. There are only 6 contact points/expansion disks along
the bar to insure the proper fit. The paired left and right expansion
disks are on each end and a pair are near the pivot point of the miter
gauge. So if the fence is not over the TS top there is only 1 pair of
expansion disks on the far end. With this length bar the fence has to
be over the TS top for any accuracy.

The longer bar that comes with the Incra sled has 10 pair and may work
better but $40.. Incra's web site price.
Youse guys are all woodworkers. How about ripping a 3' strip of oak or maple
to 3/4" x 3/4" and using that to align the infeed table with the mitre
slot?

Why would we need anything other than the miter gauge bar itself?

Seems to me that ~1/2 in the TS and ~1/2 in the infeed table would align
it perfectly. Put the gauge in backwards and you don't even have to
support it while clamping down the table.



That should work. Most often over thinking before doing can cripple the
process. Figuring out an alignment method after building a fixture
prevents a lot of wasted time in planing what might go wrong.

Sort'a on that premise, Nailshooter knows a few fellows that own a
Festool Domino. They have hardly use the tool because they are afraid
they might break it.

Break a Domino? Are they afraid of breaking hammers? They're built
about the same.

My Domino had cut over 10,000 mortises 3~4 years ago. Over 500 on the
current job.

On 2/18/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:33:13 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:



That should work. Most often over thinking before doing can cripple the
process. Figuring out an alignment method after building a fixture
prevents a lot of wasted time in planing what might go wrong.

Sort'a on that premise, Nailshooter knows a few fellows that own a
Festool Domino. They have hardly use the tool because they are afraid
they might break it.

Break a Domino? Are they afraid of breaking hammers? They're built
about the same.

I know, right? One does coddle something that is expensive though.
Mine has paid for itself and multiples more. I treat it like any of my
outer Festool tools.




My Domino had cut over 10,000 mortises 3~4 years ago. Over 500 on the
current job.