On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).

Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:

http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:53:56 -0500, John McGaw
wrote:

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet
(top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing
ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make
me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the
load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).
Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:
http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html


Yours made me think of a way OP could still use his box joints -
attach a second bottom or moulding to make it look like it's
trimmed on 3 edges but actually screwed up into the sides
for a little extra strength ? .. might make the box joints look odd
though ... out-of-place ..
John T.

The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
...Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? ...

Only 'til the glue dries.

--

On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs
a screw or two to hold it into position. The cabinet could be pulled
out from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened. That said the
French cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet. This
is not furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.Â* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint. I've done it with pegs in both box and dovetail joints in drawers
when I was concerned about wear over years of use. There are so many ways
to join wood in an application like this and so many variations that could
be applied to each that one could spend a lifetime trying them all out (if
you work as slowly as I do, anyway). Here is an old-school way of doing
pegged box joints although using rectangular ebony pegs is kind of out
there if you are looking for simple:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/read...1/18/tool-tote

Done properly is is very pretty, you must admit.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.Â* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

I don't see the necessity of security blankets but if it makes the OP feel
better about it, what is the harm? I back my computers up to three
different destinations and keep copies of my data in a bank vault.
Necessary? Maybe not but it lets me sleep better at night.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

On 2/18/2020 6:21 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead
of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered
sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still
needs a screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be
pulled out from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That
said the French cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a
cabinet.Â* This is not furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint. I've done it with pegs in both box and dovetail joints in drawers
when I was concerned about wear over years of use. There are so many
ways to join wood in an application like this and so many variations
that could be applied to each that one could spend a lifetime trying
them all out (if you work as slowly as I do, anyway). Here is an
old-school way of doing pegged box joints although using rectangular
ebony pegs is kind of out there if you are looking for simple:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/read...1/18/tool-tote

Done properly is is very pretty, you must admit.

I think pegging of the joint is best described in your last sentence. I
think for any other reason may be overkill. There is a LOT of glue
surface in a box joint, triple, IIRC.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

Maybe drill a 1/8 hole and drive in a 1/8 dowel.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

Here's Norm making a medicine cabinet using box joints. You'll need the required belt sander and brad nailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2FEthi8X64

On 2/18/2020 1:54 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:53:56 -0500, John McGaw
wrote:

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet
(top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing
ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make
me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the
load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).
Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:
http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html


Yours made me think of a way OP could still use his box joints -
attach a second bottom or moulding to make it look like it's
trimmed on 3 edges but actually screwed up into the sides
for a little extra strength ? .. might make the box joints look odd
though ... out-of-place ..
John T.


I'm sure that we could figure out a score of different joining methods and,
with the right materials and workmanship, any of them would probably do the
job as long as the cabinet wasn't going to be used to hold vast weights.
And molding and trim can cover a multitude of sins so that even unsightly
joints could be forgiven. Guess it all depends on what the OP has to work
with more than anything else.

When I made mine I was working with material salvaged from a kitchen
demolition so almost anything goes. I used blind dovetails because I have
the jig and the resulting joint is pretty much indestructible as well as
invisible.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.