On 10/28/2019 6:55 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 10/28/2019 4:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/27/2019 11:48 AM, Michael wrote:
Has anyone tried these?Â* They look like they would be very useful for
a lot of applications, but $40 for a pair of clamps feels a little
pricey.

https://www.microjig.com/products/do...pk#Product-buy


https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-7141...99145& sr=8-8



https://www.amazon.com/Makita-194385...9231 &sr=8-19


Both of these appear to be for use with T-Track vs. dovetail or am I
missing something?

I like the idea of the dovetail "track" and think that if one could
fabricate their own aluminum foot to attach to various hold downs like
the ones made of t-track, you'd really have something going.

Consider a clamp similar to either the Microjig or the PowerTec that
didn't have the foot attached, but rather just a screw in socket so you
could attach a dovetail foot as I've described that would then allow the
clamp to swivel 360 degrees.

Understood, however this might be a case of tomato, tomaato. Off hand I
do not see an advantage of a v-grove clamp over the typical slot clamp.

T-slots clamps have been around for a long time with no issue. This may
be a case of a cure for something that does not have a problem.

I do see that the MicroJig Dato Stop jig requires a v-grove slot clamp
so you may be locked in to using their v-grove clamps.

While you can use a DT bit to make your own v-groves in wood, you can
also use a key hole slot bit to make groves for the regular slot clamp.

I use both the Festool track screw clamps and the ratchet track clamps,
neither are v-grove and both hold as good as needed for me.

On 10/29/2019 10:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2019 6:55 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 10/28/2019 4:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/27/2019 11:48 AM, Michael wrote:
Has anyone tried these?Â* They look like they would be very useful
for a lot of applications, but $40 for a pair of clamps feels a
little pricey.

https://www.microjig.com/products/do...pk#Product-buy


https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-7141...99145& sr=8-8



https://www.amazon.com/Makita-194385...9231 &sr=8-19


Both of these appear to be for use with T-Track vs. dovetail or am I
missing something?

I like the idea of the dovetail "track" and think that if one could
fabricate their own aluminum foot to attach to various hold downs like
the ones made of t-track, you'd really have something going.

Consider a clamp similar to either the Microjig or the PowerTec that
didn't have the foot attached, but rather just a screw in socket so
you could attach a dovetail foot as I've described that would then
allow the clamp to swivel 360 degrees.

Understood, however this might be a case of tomato, tomaato.Â* Off hand I
do not see an advantage of a v-grove clamp over the typical slot clamp.

T-slots clamps have been around for a long time with no issue.Â* This may
be a case of a cure for something that does not have a problem.

I do see that the MicroJig Dato Stop jig requires a v-grove slot clamp
so you may be locked in to using their v-grove clamps.

While you can use a DT bit to make your own v-groves in wood, you can
also use a key hole slot bit to make groves for the regular slot clamp.

While I agree that we're talking apples vs apples (sorta, kinda), I like
the idea of "making tracks" with a dovetail bit rather than laying down
metal t-track. While I agree that one could likely replicate the
t-track in wood using a key hole bit, do you think that it would
withstand as much clamping pressure as the v-groove.

My thought is that the latter would be stronger and less likely to break
free under undue pressure.

On 10/29/2019 11:29 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
....

While I agree that we're talking apples vs apples (sorta, kinda), I like
the idea of "making tracks" with a dovetail bit rather than laying down
metal t-track.Â* While I agree that one could likely replicate the
t-track in wood using a key hole bit, do you think that it would
withstand as much clamping pressure as the v-groove.

My thought is that the latter would be stronger and less likely to break
free under undue pressure.

All 'pends on what you use for the substrate. I think realistically
would only have an issue if used ply and the depth was such as to
potential split along the ply. In solid hardwood (doubt if pine would
be hard enough) I don't think either would be in danger as long as
weren't totally in line w/ grain direction and even there I'd be
surprised if could exert enough pressure to break it with those types of
clamps.

On 10/29/2019 12:34 PM, dpb wrote:
On 10/29/2019 11:29 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
...

While I agree that we're talking apples vs apples (sorta, kinda), I
like the idea of "making tracks" with a dovetail bit rather than
laying down metal t-track.Â* While I agree that one could likely
replicate the t-track in wood using a key hole bit, do you think that
it would withstand as much clamping pressure as the v-groove.

My thought is that the latter would be stronger and less likely to
break free under undue pressure.

All 'pends on what you use for the substrate.Â* I think realistically
would only have an issue if used ply and the depth was such as to
potential split along the ply.Â* In solid hardwood (doubt if pine would
be hard enough) I don't think either would be in danger as long as
weren't totally in line w/ grain direction and even there I'd be
surprised if could exert enough pressure to break it with those types of
clamps.

We can probably lay this one to rest along with carcass of the dead
horse we've beaten to death.

Interesting thread that managed to cover all the bases (I think) of an
interesting woodworking tool/concept without veering off course or
becoming rife with personal attacks. LOL!

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 11:39:39 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 10/28/2019 6:55 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 10/28/2019 4:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 10/27/2019 11:48 AM, Michael wrote:
Has anyone tried these?Â* They look like they would be very useful for
a lot of applications, but $40 for a pair of clamps feels a little
pricey.

https://www.microjig.com/products/do...pk#Product-buy


https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-7141...99145& sr=8-8



https://www.amazon.com/Makita-194385...9231 &sr=8-19


Both of these appear to be for use with T-Track vs. dovetail or am I
missing something?

I like the idea of the dovetail "track" and think that if one could
fabricate their own aluminum foot to attach to various hold downs like
the ones made of t-track, you'd really have something going.

Consider a clamp similar to either the Microjig or the PowerTec that
didn't have the foot attached, but rather just a screw in socket so you
could attach a dovetail foot as I've described that would then allow the
clamp to swivel 360 degrees.

Understood, however this might be a case of tomato, tomaato. Off hand I
do not see an advantage of a v-grove clamp over the typical slot clamp.

T-slots clamps have been around for a long time with no issue. This may
be a case of a cure for something that does not have a problem.

What if you looked at this from a different angle? (pun intended)

Instead of a thinking of it as a solution looking for a problem, what
if you looked at it as simply an alternative to T-tracks for those one-
off jigs or out-of-the-ordinary clamping situations?

As Bob D said "Laying out T-track takes more time and is a real commitment
to whatever layout you need." I have a few T-Track jigs that I built for
specific projects that don't get much use, but I don't want to throw them
out because it took me time to build them and maybe (I doubt it) I'll
do a project just like that again.

If I have known about the dove tail clamps at the time, I could have
built a jig that I wouldn't have minded throwing away or re-purposing
when I was done with it.

Again, not a replacement for T-tracks, just an alternative.

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
While I agree that we're talking apples vs apples (sorta, kinda), I like
the idea of "making tracks" with a dovetail bit rather than laying down
metal t-track. While I agree that one could likely replicate the
t-track in wood using a key hole bit, do you think that it would
withstand as much clamping pressure as the v-groove.

My thought is that the latter would be stronger and less likely to break
free under undue pressure.

That's a realistic point that I had not brought up. The clamping pressure of the matchfit jigs far exceeds any T-track clamp I have ever seen. I have a number of jigs and a work table top that I made out of 1/2" MDF. Who would have thought that would work at all? But it does and quite well. The key-slot approach mentioned is inherently weaker because of the stress risers that occur at the right angle cuts inside the slot. I think they would break loose in 1/2" MDF for the applications I have done with Matchfit clamps.