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table saw obsolescence
firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better |
table saw obsolescence
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I could be wrong. I could live past 100. |
table saw obsolescence
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. |
table saw obsolescence
Electric Comet wrote in
: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Hello pot, meet kettle. -- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
table saw obsolescence
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers... |
table saw obsolescence
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table saw obsolescence
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:01:23 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Hello pot, meet kettle. Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed. |
table saw obsolescence
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:04:33 -0500, krw wrote:
Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Hello pot, meet kettle. Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed. Yep - not me. Note the lack of signature line in his/her post. -- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
table saw obsolescence
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table saw obsolescence
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
wrote: On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:04:33 -0500, krw wrote: Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Hello pot, meet kettle. Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed. Yep - not me. Note the lack of signature line in his/her post. Yes, you. Idiot. |
table saw obsolescence
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table saw obsolescence
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com... Electric Comet wrote in : firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a manual machine. As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop. |
table saw obsolescence
On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message eb.com... Electric Comet wrote in : firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a manual machine. As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop. Bob, what part of the country are you from? Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA. -- Jeff --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
table saw obsolescence
"woodchucker" wrote in message
... On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: "Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message eb.com... Electric Comet wrote in : firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a manual machine. As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop. Bob, what part of the country are you from? Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA. Yuma, Az |
table saw obsolescence
On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote in message ... On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: "Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message eb.com... Electric Comet wrote in : firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a manual machine. As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop. Bob, what part of the country are you from? Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA. Yuma, Az Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to haul it back.. -- Jeff --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
table saw obsolescence
"woodchucker" wrote in message
... On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: "woodchucker" wrote in message ... On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: "Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message eb.com... Electric Comet wrote in : firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5, zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my cut. Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.) CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel. Puckdropper I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a manual machine. As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop. Bob, what part of the country are you from? Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA. Yuma, Az Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to haul it back.. -- Jeff Too bad. I've got an old RF-30 and a smaller mill drill I've been thinking of getting rid of and picking up a G0704 or BF20L to replace them along with another drill press or three. |
table saw obsolescence
On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy because he has a Saw Stop? I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet.. I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more computer control tool. Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation. As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread? |
table saw obsolescence
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote: On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy because he has a Saw Stop? I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet.. I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more computer control tool. Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation. As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread? Computer Numeric Control Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably priced or very expensive. Reasonable: https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU Expensive: https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html |
table saw obsolescence
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 13:03:45 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote: On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote: On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy because he has a Saw Stop? I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet.. I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more computer control tool. Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation. As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread? You hit it solidly square on, on the first try. They are talking computer nemerical controlled routers in place of a table saw. I can see it taking the place of a router/template or scroll saw LONG before it takes the place of a table saw. A 4 or 9 square foot CNC router is not TERRIBLY prohibitively priced for specialty woodworking, but a 32-36 square foot unit to handle a full 4X8 is a horse of a totally different colour!!!. |
table saw obsolescence
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote: Computer Numeric Control Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably priced or very expensive. Reasonable: https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a table saw. Expensive: https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html And nor would that one!!. We are talking about machines like this!!! http://multicam.ca/wp-content/upload...er-908x648.jpg or the RC8 shown here -: http://www.shopsabre.com/cnc/router/rc-series/ Note the price is well north of 15 Gs. Either of these can take the place of https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.1...FVu5wAodsmwNuQ at $829, or http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware...=1,41080,72156 The fully loaded SawStop contactor saw for $Cdn 2837 - or the cadillac - the loaded professional cabinet version for about $4475 Canadian converted to 220 volt.. And just look at the difference in real estate eaten up by the different options. I don't have 35 square feet of space to dedicate to a tool that is not utilized full time!!! - even if I DID have the spare "bread" to buy it. |
table saw obsolescence
Keith Nuttle wrote:
I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more computer control tool. Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation. As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040: http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal. I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from he http://www.machsupport.com/ http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/ http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/ He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-) |
table saw obsolescence
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 11:08:52 -0500, Jack wrote:
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: firmware and lawsuits the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability costs can only go up seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and fewer people want to use them i will always have one i think but cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water jets and ultrasonic cutting how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look even better Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp. Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy because he has a Saw Stop? I know you're not very bright but you really don't have to prov it. I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet.. If everyone ignores him, I'm game too. |
table saw obsolescence
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: Computer Numeric Control Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably priced or very expensive. Reasonable: https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a table saw. Expensive: https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html And nor would that one!!. We are talking about machines like this!!! No, *you* are talking about machines like that. I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search. He said: "These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?" There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit our budgets. BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you keyboard stutter? |
table saw obsolescence
DerbyDad03 wrote in
: Computer Numeric Control Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably priced or very expensive. Reasonable: https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach...-Carving/dp/B0 1EYCQDFU Expensive: https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html That "reasonable" isn't. You'll run out of space in that work area, (5.1'' * 3.9'' * 1.6''), before you got done securing anything. Even model railroad work in N-scale (1:160) needs more space! Work area and rigidity are two of the most important parts of CNC machines. IMO, anything smaller than a Taig is just going to be too small. That still won't even come close to replacing your TS. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:50:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote: On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: Computer Numeric Control Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably priced or very expensive. Reasonable: https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a table saw. Expensive: https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html And nor would that one!!. We are talking about machines like this!!! No, *you* are talking about machines like that. I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search. He said: "These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?" There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit our budgets. BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you keyboard stutter? Keith was wondering how CNC applied to the thread. If I'm not mistaken the "thread" is about (or has morphed to) "cnc machines" making "table saws" obsolete. None of the "toys" referenced stand a chance of replacing a table saw for any meaningfull type of work, if any at all. An aquaintance has one we used to make a couple of crokinole boards a couple years ago, and we were pretty well at the limit size wize for his machine (which is largere than any of those shown). It also did a good job of making the moldings around the openings (hatches) in a lake kayak out of oak and teak. None of these jobs would have been candidates for a table saw |
table saw obsolescence
Spalted Walt wrote in
: Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040: http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal. I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from he http://www.machsupport.com/ http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/ http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/ He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-) G1 X3Y0 G1 X4 G1 X3Y2 G1 Y0 G-code? What's that? ;-) Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G- code. I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve mathematically so the machine can handle it. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
Spalted Walt wrote in : Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040: http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal. I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from he http://www.machsupport.com/ http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/ http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/ He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-) G1 X3Y0 G1 X4 G1 X3Y2 G1 Y0 G-code? What's that? ;-) Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G- code. I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve mathematically so the machine can handle it. Puckdropper There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum memebers he http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...c,18345.0.html The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc. |
table saw obsolescence
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500
wrote: I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I there is a trend in the direction for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the injured employee |
table saw obsolescence
On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:41:14 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500 wrote: I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I there is a trend in the direction for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the injured employee If someone told me 10 years ago there would be driverless cars on the highway, it would have been met with total disbelief on my part... |
table saw obsolescence
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:23:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:41:14 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500 wrote: I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I there is a trend in the direction for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the injured employee If someone told me 10 years ago there would be driverless cars on the highway, it would have been met with total disbelief on my part... I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen. |
table saw obsolescence
wrote in
: I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen. I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job. I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first came out. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: wrote in : I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen. I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job. I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first came out. No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes? |
table saw obsolescence
wrote in
: On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job. I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first came out. No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes? CNC machines will supplement the table saw. They'll offer another way to make the same cuts, a unique way to make different cuts, and won't be able to make come of the other cuts a TS can do. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
On 21 Feb 2017 02:44:18 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: wrote in : On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job. I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first came out. No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes? CNC machines will supplement the table saw. They'll offer another way to make the same cuts, a unique way to make different cuts, and won't be able to make come of the other cuts a TS can do. Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a home shop. |
table saw obsolescence
wrote in
: Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a home shop. Ok. I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router to do the end cuts. I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the important part was the finger joints. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
table saw obsolescence
One of the real problems - there are many versions of G-Code languages.
It allows for extensions and many just use them and change the code. The company thought is to trap more business in training and keep you in their machine. I think it did the opposite. Martin On 2/19/2017 8:45 PM, Spalted Walt wrote: Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: Spalted Walt wrote in : Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040: http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal. I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from he http://www.machsupport.com/ http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/ http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/ He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-) G1 X3Y0 G1 X4 G1 X3Y2 G1 Y0 G-code? What's that? ;-) Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G- code. I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve mathematically so the machine can handle it. Puckdropper There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum memebers he http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...c,18345.0.html The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc. |
table saw obsolescence
On 21 Feb 2017 04:11:54 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: wrote in : Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a home shop. Ok. I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router to do the end cuts. I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the important part was the finger joints. Puckdropper And with the right jig, you could have made the finger joints on the table saw just as well. Would have taken a bit longer though - and there are fancy box joints that would be almost impossible to do on the table saw - and the CNC doing the job of the planer would have been PAINFULLY slow!! |
table saw obsolescence
Spalted Walt wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote: I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more computer control tool. Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation. As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of the average wood worker. Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040: http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal. I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from he http://www.machsupport.com/ http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/ http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/ He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-) And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred dollar table saw can. |
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