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Default table saw obsolescence


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better






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Default table saw obsolescence

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better





I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
could be wrong. I could live past 100.
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Default table saw obsolescence

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.

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Default table saw obsolescence

Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper
--
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A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
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Default table saw obsolescence

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw
injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability
costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and
fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be
fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will
become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look
even better


Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.


Hello pot, meet kettle.


--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!


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Default table saw obsolescence

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...
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Default table saw obsolescence

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:01:23 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw
injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability
costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and
fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be
fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will
become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look
even better


Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.


Hello pot, meet kettle.


Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed.
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Default table saw obsolescence

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:04:33 -0500, krw wrote:

Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.


Hello pot, meet kettle.


Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed.


Yep - not me. Note the lack of signature line in his/her post.

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Default table saw obsolescence

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:14:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...


Track saws are great for breaking down panels into usable sizes but
they're not so great for the other 99% of the things one does on a
table saw. Table saws aren't going anywhere. OTOH, SS technology may
become standard in a small number of years.


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On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:04:33 -0500, krw wrote:

Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.

Hello pot, meet kettle.


Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed.


Yep - not me. Note the lack of signature line in his/her post.


Yes, you. Idiot.
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Default table saw obsolescence

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper



I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a
manual machine.

As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.





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Default table saw obsolescence

On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper



I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a
manual machine.

As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.





Bob, what part of the country are you from?
Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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"woodchucker" wrote in message
news
On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper



I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have
no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on
a
manual machine.

As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter
saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.





Bob, what part of the country are you from?
Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.


Yuma, Az





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Default table saw obsolescence

On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote in message
news
On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper


I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have
no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on
a
manual machine.

As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter
saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.





Bob, what part of the country are you from?
Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.


Yuma, Az




Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was
going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to
haul it back..


--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Default table saw obsolescence

"woodchucker" wrote in message
news
On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote in message
news
On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
Electric Comet wrote in
news

firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly
well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time
to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make
my
cut.

Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal
with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd
like.)

CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too.
I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.

Puckdropper


I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and
have
no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out
on
a
manual machine.

As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most
miter
saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a
stop.





Bob, what part of the country are you from?
Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.


Yuma, Az




Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was
going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to
haul it back..


--
Jeff



Too bad. I've got an old RF-30 and a smaller mill drill I've been thinking
of getting rid of and picking up a G0704 or BF20L to replace them along with
another drill press or three.





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On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better


Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.

Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
because he has a Saw Stop?

I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..

I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.

Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.

As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.

Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?
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On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better

Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.

Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
because he has a Saw Stop?

I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..

I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.

Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.

As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.

Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?


Computer Numeric Control

Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.

Reasonable:

https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU

Expensive:

https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html


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On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 13:03:45 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


firmware and lawsuits

the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up


seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them

i will always have one i think but

cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
water
jets and ultrasonic cutting


how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
shop

i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc


consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better

Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.

Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
because he has a Saw Stop?

I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..

I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.

Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.

As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.

Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?

You hit it solidly square on, on the first try. They are talking
computer nemerical controlled routers in place of a table saw.
I can see it taking the place of a router/template or scroll saw LONG
before it takes the place of a table saw. A 4 or 9 square foot CNC
router is not TERRIBLY prohibitively priced for specialty woodworking,
but a 32-36 square foot unit to handle a full 4X8 is a horse of a
totally different colour!!!.
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Computer Numeric Control

Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.

Reasonable:

https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU


And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
table saw.

Expensive:

https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html


And nor would that one!!.

We are talking about machines like this!!!
http://multicam.ca/wp-content/upload...er-908x648.jpg

or the RC8 shown here -:
http://www.shopsabre.com/cnc/router/rc-series/

Note the price is well north of 15 Gs.

Either of these can take the place of
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.1...FVu5wAodsmwNuQ
at $829, or
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware...=1,41080,72156
The fully loaded SawStop contactor saw for $Cdn 2837 - or the cadillac
- the loaded professional cabinet version for about $4475 Canadian
converted to 220 volt..

And just look at the difference in real estate eaten up by the
different options. I don't have 35 square feet of space to dedicate to
a tool that is not utilized full time!!! - even if I DID have the
spare "bread" to buy it.
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Keith Nuttle wrote:

I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.

Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.

As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.


Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:

http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo

I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.

I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
he
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/

He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)

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On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Computer Numeric Control

Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.

Reasonable:

https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU


And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
table saw.

Expensive:

https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html


And nor would that one!!.

We are talking about machines like this!!!


No, *you* are talking about machines like that.

I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover
a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that
the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search.

He said:

"These things are very expensive, and if this definition is
correct out of the budget of the average wood worker.

Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in
this thread?"

There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit
our budgets.

BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you
keyboard stutter?


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DerbyDad03 wrote in
:


Computer Numeric Control

Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.

Reasonable:

https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach...-Carving/dp/B0
1EYCQDFU

Expensive:

https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html


That "reasonable" isn't. You'll run out of space in that work area,
(5.1'' * 3.9'' * 1.6''), before you got done securing anything. Even model
railroad work in N-scale (1:160) needs more space!

Work area and rigidity are two of the most important parts of CNC machines.
IMO, anything smaller than a Taig is just going to be too small. That
still won't even come close to replacing your TS.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:50:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Computer Numeric Control

Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.

Reasonable:

https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Mach.../dp/B01EYCQDFU


And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
table saw.

Expensive:

https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html


And nor would that one!!.

We are talking about machines like this!!!


No, *you* are talking about machines like that.

I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover
a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that
the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search.

He said:

"These things are very expensive, and if this definition is
correct out of the budget of the average wood worker.

Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in
this thread?"

There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit
our budgets.

BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you
keyboard stutter?


Keith was wondering how CNC applied to the thread.
If I'm not mistaken the "thread" is about (or has morphed to) "cnc
machines" making "table saws" obsolete. None of the "toys" referenced
stand a chance of replacing a table saw for any meaningfull type of
work, if any at all.
An aquaintance has one we used to make a couple of crokinole boards a
couple years ago, and we were pretty well at the limit size wize for
his machine (which is largere than any of those shown). It also did a
good job of making the moldings around the openings (hatches) in a
lake kayak out of oak and teak.
None of these jobs would have been candidates for a table saw
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Spalted Walt wrote in
:


Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
6040:

http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo

I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.

I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
he
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/

He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)


G1 X3Y0
G1 X4
G1 X3Y2
G1 Y0

G-code? What's that? ;-)

Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
code.

I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
mathematically so the machine can handle it.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
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Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Spalted Walt wrote in
:


Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
6040:

http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo

I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.

I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
he
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/

He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)


G1 X3Y0
G1 X4
G1 X3Y2
G1 Y0

G-code? What's that? ;-)

Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
code.

I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
mathematically so the machine can handle it.

Puckdropper


There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum
memebers he

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...c,18345.0.html

The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several
G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC
without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in
the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can
be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc.

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On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:


I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is
about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC
that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen.


I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the
manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be
added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job.

I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first
came out.


No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think
that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes?
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On 21 Feb 2017 02:44:18 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:

On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose
the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones,
they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the
job.

I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they
first came out.


No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think
that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes?


CNC machines will supplement the table saw. They'll offer another way to
make the same cuts, a unique way to make different cuts, and won't be
able to make come of the other cuts a TS can do.


Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
home shop.
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One of the real problems - there are many versions of G-Code languages.
It allows for extensions and many just use them and change the code.

The company thought is to trap more business in training and keep you in
their machine. I think it did the opposite.

Martin

On 2/19/2017 8:45 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Spalted Walt wrote in
:


Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
6040:

http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo

I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.

I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
he
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/

He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)


G1 X3Y0
G1 X4
G1 X3Y2
G1 Y0

G-code? What's that? ;-)

Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
code.

I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
mathematically so the machine can handle it.

Puckdropper


There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum
memebers he

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...c,18345.0.html

The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several
G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC
without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in
the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can
be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc.

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On 21 Feb 2017 04:11:54 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:

Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
home shop.


Ok.

I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out
quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished
the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to
size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router
to do the end cuts.

I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the
important part was the finger joints.

Puckdropper

And with the right jig, you could have made the finger joints on the
table saw just as well. Would have taken a bit longer though - and
there are fancy box joints that would be almost impossible to do on
the table saw - and the CNC doing the job of the planer would have
been PAINFULLY slow!!
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Spalted Walt wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.

Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.

As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.


Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:

http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo

I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.

I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
he
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/

He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)

And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
dollar table saw can.
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