Started finishing a desk set.
Maple sanded to 220.
No pre=stain (ie seal coat)
Finish Barley Chestnut gel stain.

Blotchy... ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

fortunately its only the first piece of the set. Was hoping to avoid
doing all the pieces with seal coat. I was looking for a darker color
and sanding sealer means a longer buildup

Oh well, I'll start the sealing process.

I have only been lucky once or twice with gel and blotchy wood.
--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:52:41 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I have only been lucky once or twice with gel and blotchy wood.

And, IIRC gel stains, at least one brand, were advertised as non-
blotchy. I was the go-to finishing guy at the Woodcraft I worked at
several years ago. When the gels came out, I tried one without sealer so
I could respond to questions about it. Took the result in to the boss
and told him the non-blotchy claim was a lie.

But they're still nice for vertical surfaces.

--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

On 1/8/2017 12:49 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:52:41 -0500, woodchucker wrote:

I have only been lucky once or twice with gel and blotchy wood.

And, IIRC gel stains, at least one brand, were advertised as non-
blotchy. I was the go-to finishing guy at the Woodcraft I worked at
several years ago. When the gels came out, I tried one without sealer so
I could respond to questions about it. Took the result in to the boss
and told him the non-blotchy claim was a lie.

But they're still nice for vertical surfaces.



Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.


--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible. Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do. The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!

On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible. Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do. The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.




--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 11:52:49 AM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
Started finishing a desk set.
Maple sanded to 220.

It was my understanding that sanding prep for gel stain should be no finer
than 150 grit.

From https://generalfinishes.com/videos/h...t#.WHPJn1MrLmE

"When using oil stains on raw wood, prep sand with 120 grit sandpaper
followed by 150 grit. Don't go any finer with the sanding grit or else
the wood won't hold color."

I'm pretty sure the Zar gel stain I used said the same thing on the can.

No pre=stain (ie seal coat)
Finish Barley Chestnut gel stain.

Blotchy... ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

fortunately its only the first piece of the set. Was hoping to avoid
doing all the pieces with seal coat. I was looking for a darker color
and sanding sealer means a longer buildup

Oh well, I'll start the sealing process.

I have only been lucky once or twice with gel and blotchy wood.

I recently used Zar gel stain on a bunch of quarter-sawn Douglas fir.
The test pieces without sealer were terrible. The sealer evened it all out.
I used 2 coats of sealer on the end grain with a very light application of
stain to keep the end grain from becoming way too dark. A little contrast
is OK, but the extra coat of sealer kept the stain color within an
acceptable range.

While 99.9% was sanded to 150, I did burnish the end grain with 220 to
prevent absorption.

On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible. Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do. The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong. wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 1/9/17 7:15 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible. Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do. The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong. wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.


I love Leon's advice.
I love Zinsser.
I love shellac.

Those are three things which you can't go wrong.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/9/2017 7:15 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible. Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do. The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong. wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.




LOL... I HATE it when you have to read the fine print on the can. ;~)

On 1/9/2017 7:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/9/17 7:15 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times
since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a
swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible.
Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with
another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do.
The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and
the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong. wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.


I love Leon's advice.
I love Zinsser.
I love shellac.

Those are three things which you can't go wrong.




Except when I am wrong. It happens to all of us. :~)

On 1/10/17 9:49 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/9/2017 7:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/9/17 7:15 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was
referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with
Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times
since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued
to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a
swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short
period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible.
Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually
wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read
the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with
another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do.
The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight
buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and
the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong. wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.


I love Leon's advice.
I love Zinsser.
I love shellac.

Those are three things which you can't go wrong.




Except when I am wrong. It happens to all of us. :~)

I thought I was wrong once. But I was mistaken. :-D


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/10/2017 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/10/17 9:49 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/9/2017 7:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/9/17 7:15 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 11:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/8/2017 8:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/8/2017 7:07 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 13:37:31 -0600, Leon wrote:

Did you work for Woodcraft in 1989? I started using Bartley's gel
stains in 1989.

I think it was more like 2004 or 5. The gel stains I was
referring to
were General. I worked part-time for 3 years so it would have been
somewhere between 2003-2006.




Yes that period sounds correct. I was unimpressed by General Gel
finishes and especially the gel varnish.
Although I have used the General Finishes stains lately and had
better
luck, but it took me getting to my second quart to figure out how to
apply with out getting blotches even on easy woods like oak.

I started using gel stains and varnishes back in 1989 with
Bartleys. A
superior product back then. Bartley's has changed hands 2~3 times
since
then. When Bartley's furniture sold off the finishes line Lawrence
McFadden bought it. I'm not sure if Bartley's finishes continued
to be
as good but I immediately switched to Lawrence Mcfadden.

LMF, Lawrence McFadden did not have a good sample of a color for the
Bartley's line that they just bought. Long story shore, we made a
swap,
I sent them a pint of my stain color that they wanted, and it was
half
gone, in exchange for 2 quarts of their LMF products. That is
all it
took and I was hooked on LMF. Clearly better and easier to work with
than Bartley's and I thought Bartley's was very easy.

Both products could be wiped on and off in a relatively short
period of
time. Then LMF went out of business and sold their product lines to
Seabourn finishes. They did not want to deal with me directly so I
looked for a replacement.

I tried General finishes Java Gel 5 years ago and it was terrible.
Wipe
it on and when you get back around to your starting point on the
face frame it thinned out and became blotchy. The stain actually
wiped
off and almost disappeared.

From there I switched to Old Masters gel varnishes and finally read
the
instructions after about 4 quarts and have had great results since.
Unlike LMF and Bartelys products you wipe Old Masters varnish on and
IMMEDIATELY wipe it off and IMMEDIATELY lightly buff it out with
another
clean rag. I apply, wipe off, and buff out with the Blue Scotts shop
paper towels. If you feel any drag while wiping off you have either
covered too big of an area or waited too long past IMMEDIATELY to
wipe
it off.
My problem was the buffing which I originally was neglecting to do.
The
finish stayed tacky for 24+ hours. The simple IMMEDIATE slight
buffing
meant the possibility of 3 coats a day if you start early enough and
the
temp and humidity is not an extreme.

I finally learned with General Finishes gel stains to IMMEDIATELY
wipe
the stain off. The longer you wait the tackier and harder it is to
remove the excess. AND immediately wiping it down seems to set the
stain so that coming around the face frame to the beginning point did
not present adverse effects.

The lesson I have learned, you cannot get the product off of the wood
too fast. The faster you wipe it off the easier it comes off and the
less it removes the previous coated starting point.

Whew!



Interesting. I wonder if Bartley's will work the same. my history with
gel is leave it on longer because it doesn't seem to build. once it
seals. Seagraves is a well known finishing company. Maple is tough
because there's not a lot of tooth to hold onto stain.





So my finishing took a turn for the better.

A) I started using zinsser sanding sealer.. yesterday. Tonight, I
started staining the drawer fronts (rail and stile) NO BLOTCHING.

B) I read the can like Leon said, I was applying this all wrong.
wipe it
off immediately and buff, it says it will build. I had followed
instructions from another product, that I watched a u-tube on and that
was not good for Bartley's. Yes its light, and if it builds great. If
not... well ... if I get there I'll figure that out. But for now,
shellac saves the day like usual.. And thanks Leon.


I love Leon's advice.
I love Zinsser.
I love shellac.

Those are three things which you can't go wrong.




Except when I am wrong. It happens to all of us. :~)

I thought I was wrong once. But I was mistaken. :-D



Uh HUH.. me2 LOL

On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:19:37 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

I love Leon's advice.
I love Zinsser.
I love shellac.

Those are three things which you can't go wrong.

Yea, verily!


--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:03:26 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

I thought I was wrong once. But I was mistaken. :-D

DeMille reincarnated?

--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 09:48:04 -0600, Leon wrote:

LOL... I HATE it when you have to read the fine print on the can. ;~)

Especially as they keep making it smaller every year!

--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/10/2017 10:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I thought I was wrong once. But I was mistaken. :-D



Uh HUH.. me2 LOL

I thought so too, but it turns out that I was right and the universe was
wrong! (I can give examples. :-))

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 1/10/2017 12:30 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 09:48:04 -0600, Leon wrote:

LOL... I HATE it when you have to read the fine print on the can. ;~)

Especially as they keep making it smaller every year!


LOL You caught that.