On Tuesday, November 1, 2016 at 3:52:35 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

we will still have the same badly politically managed economy



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-r...172400359.html

From an article on the release of the Federal Reserve meeting minutes.

"The Feds cautious, yet generally positive, economic statement follows a slew of improving data,Â*including strong retail sales, solid ISM manufacturing gains and better-than-expected labor force participation. The unemployment rate has hovered around 5% for the past year€”a level many economists consider to be near full employment. Meanwhile output growth has gained momentum. Real GDP is estimated to have increased 2.9% in the third quarter.

Inflation, which has run below the Feds 2% target for years,"

Despite what people imagine and pretend to see, the US economy is doing pretty well. Not great, but good.

wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than $2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than $2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Here are the annual inflation rates since 2005.
2005 3.4
2006 3.2
2007 2.8
2008 3.8
2009 -0.4
2010 1.6
2011 3.2
2012 2.1
2013 1.5
2014 1.6
2015 0.1

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing, gasoline, etc. are included or not. Some of the inflation rates include or exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only. AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items? None of my friends do. My parents could buy the tickets if they ever, ever, ever went to the movies. They don't so its inapplicable to them.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not. Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 16:37:06 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not.

They are not. The problem is that the "basket" keeps changing,
depending on what the government wants to show. Several years ago,
steak was replaced by hamburger (both are meat, after all) to keep the
cost of food in the basket the same. Gasoline was included, until it
was approaching $5. Then not.

Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

On Thu, 03 Nov 2016 20:07:40 -0400, krw wrote:

On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 16:37:06 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not.

They are not. The problem is that the "basket" keeps changing,
depending on what the government wants to show. Several years ago,
steak was replaced by hamburger (both are meat, after all) to keep the
cost of food in the basket the same. Gasoline was included, until it
was approaching $5. Then not.

I meant to add that it's not one party that does it. Both sides have
a strong interest in keeping the official CPI (and interest rates)
down.

Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

In article , says...

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not. Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html


Personally I'm making about twice what I was making in 1985. In 1985 I
felt like I was struggling to make ends meet. Now I don't feel that
way. So no, I don't buy the argument that living expenses have doubled
over the past 20 years.


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On 11/5/2016 5:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says...

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not. Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html


Personally I'm making about twice what I was making in 1985. In 1985 I
felt like I was struggling to make ends meet. Now I don't feel that
way. So no, I don't buy the argument that living expenses have doubled
over the past 20 years.


Anecdotal evidence is sketchy. I just looked at what I made in 1985 and
I've more than doubled it, but in 1986 I had a $6000 increase. In 1985
I was just getting by, but in the interim, two teenagers moved out of
the house, the house has been paid for etc. I also have more money in
my savings account than ever in my life but got less than 50 cents in
interest last month. In 1985 I had enough to cover upcoming taxes but
got a couple of bucks for it.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 05:59:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , says...

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...

Inflation, which has run below the Fed's 2% target for years,

How many years? At 2% it would take about 36 years for prices to double.

My pocket book tells me that prices are about 2.5 times - or more - what
they were 20 years ago, nowhere near what the government claims. For
example, in 1996 I could buy a gallon of paint thinner for less than
$2.00;
now, it is $9.98. I could buy a senior ticket to a movie for $3.00; now
it
costs me $7.50.

However, inflation is great for debtors, the federal government being at
the
top of the heap. BTW, federal debt in 1996 was a bit less than 1/4 of
what
it is currently (5.2 billion vs 19+ billion).

IOW, the government's CPI doesn't reflect the real world.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1609.pdf

Go to page 87 of this PDF and you can see the annual percentage inflation
for the past 45 years. Couple pages above and you can see the annual
inflation for the prior 56 years before that.

Thank you buI know where to find such.

The CPI is comprised of normal everyday items people purchase. It shows the
change in prices for a basket of these goods. Not sure if housing,
gasoline, etc. are included or not. Some of the inflation rates include or
exclude these types of items. It is what the average person buys. The CPI
would not capture the cost of living for an over the road truck driver who
sleeps in his cab and eats at diners and never pays utilities or does
anything else except drive. And the CPI would not work for an 80 year old
wood worker who lives off the grid and eats day old bread and peanut butter
only and uses tung oil and hand planes and chisels and hand saws only.
AVERAGE American is the key here. CPI is applicable to most people. Paint
thinner? Senior movie tickets? Does the average American buy these items?

Probably not but the average American doesn't have college tuition & fees
(one of the items in the CPI) either; nor cigarettes; nor propane, kerosene
and firewood. Here's the whole list...
http://www.businessinsider.com/break...-basket-2014-1

Here's another link...income over a span of time. Pay attention to the
median. In 1995 it was $16,650. Last year - 20 years later - it was
$29.930. If you plug $16,650 into an "inflation calculator" for 1995 and
ask for the 2015 equivalent it will spit out $25,894. Do you really believe
that real median income has increased by more than $4,000? I don't.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html


Personally I'm making about twice what I was making in 1985. In 1985 I
felt like I was struggling to make ends meet. Now I don't feel that
way. So no, I don't buy the argument that living expenses have doubled
over the past 20 years.


---
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Likewize. My earnings have been pretty static over the last 20
years. My expenses have gone down since the kids have left home,
I'm not twice as bad off as I was then - for sure. Food prices have
gone crazy - I'm sure I could never afford to buy my house at today's
prices, but tools have come down in price, as has technology. New car
prices have hardly changed - etc etc etc.