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Framing Lumber
Why do studs cost more than 8 footers, and consist of crappier lumber.
Seriously. Kiln dried 2x4 8s in two different stores were cheaper and mostly straight. Their stud length was wet, moldy, twisted, splintering and split, and atleast 10% (maybe more) had signs of powder post beatle damage. I decided it wasn't worth the convenience of not having to cut a few inches off the end. I found the same thing with the 2X6s. I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. Framing is so much nicer with decent lumber. I hope nobody is actually building houses with that crap. |
Framing Lumber
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:46:03 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: Why do studs cost more than 8 footers, and consist of crappier lumber. Seriously. Kiln dried 2x4 8s in two different stores were cheaper and mostly straight. Their stud length was wet, moldy, twisted, splintering and split, and atleast 10% (maybe more) had signs of powder post beatle damage. I decided it wasn't worth the convenience of not having to cut a few inches off the end. I found the same thing with the 2X6s. I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. Framing is so much nicer with decent lumber. I hope nobody is actually building houses with that crap. Mabee not building, but renovating. Lot's of people will pay more for the crap so they don't need to cut. |
Framing Lumber
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:46:03 -0700
"Bob La Londe" wrote: Why do studs cost more than 8 footers, and consist of crappier lumber. usually studs are bought in large quantities and delivered to the job by truck and one always expects a certain amount that will be good for blocks etc Seriously. Kiln dried 2x4 8s in two different stores were cheaper that is interesting I hope nobody is actually building houses with that crap. they are used for walls so they get used but why worry if you have a choice you can use other wood i like select or #1 to minimize surprises |
Framing Lumber
Straight grain that can handle load end to end without splitting.
Martin On 7/15/2016 6:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: Why do studs cost more than 8 footers, and consist of crappier lumber. Seriously. Kiln dried 2x4 8s in two different stores were cheaper and mostly straight. Their stud length was wet, moldy, twisted, splintering and split, and atleast 10% (maybe more) had signs of powder post beatle damage. I decided it wasn't worth the convenience of not having to cut a few inches off the end. I found the same thing with the 2X6s. I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. Framing is so much nicer with decent lumber. I hope nobody is actually building houses with that crap. |
Framing Lumber
On 7/15/2016 7:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. There is the answer. On a jobsite that is $50 or so. |
Framing Lumber
On 7/15/2016 6:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Why do studs cost more than 8 footers, and consist of crappier lumber. Seriously. Kiln dried 2x4 8s in two different stores were cheaper and mostly straight. Their stud length was wet, moldy, twisted, splintering and split, and atleast 10% (maybe more) had signs of powder post beatle damage. I decided it wasn't worth the convenience of not having to cut a few inches off the end. I found the same thing with the 2X6s. That circumstance is always subject to change upon delivery of the next pallet off the boxcar to the lumber dealer ... might be the other way around on the next boxcar load. I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. Framing is so much nicer with decent lumber. I hope nobody is actually building houses with that crap. Trust me, someone is ... guaranteed. It doesn't happen often, mainly for the reasons below, but I have been known to refuse a load of material that was not up to my standards for the purpose for which it was purchased. Benefit of having a long standing _credit_ account with one of the biggest lumber yards in this area; and their/my sales rep, with whom I've been dealing for 15 years, is well aware that I make it a point to personally inspect and sign off on every delivery, before it is unloaded. Only took a time or two to get some personal involvement before it left the yard ... but they know I'm gonna exercise a bit of judgement/provide some wiggle room ... nothing is perfect, but it might be perfect enough, providing you know how to handle less than perfect material and and make it work without detriment to the project. ;) -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
Framing Lumber
On 7/16/2016 6:43 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/15/2016 7:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote: I just bought 8 footers and spent an hour lopping off the ends with the miter saw. There is the answer. On a jobsite that is $50 or so. Bingo ... or more in this day and age. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
Framing Lumber
"Martin Eastburn" wrote in message
... Straight grain that can handle load end to end without splitting. Yeah, not this stuff. A lot of it was already splitting, and it was worse in almost every respect than the regular dimensional lumber. Not just one or two bails either. |
Framing Lumber
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:48:22 -0700
"Bob La Londe" wrote: Yeah, not this stuff. A lot of it was already splitting, and it was worse in almost every respect than the regular dimensional lumber. Not just one or two bails either. did you say what kind of wood are you talking fir or something else was the wood indoors studs are meant to be used soon after harvesting but at a home supply they sit around and do what they do once cover with siding and drywall and blocked and nailed and screwed harder for them do what they do unconstrained |
Framing Lumber
On 7/16/16 3:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
studs are meant to be used soon after harvesting.... Cite, please? -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 13:15:15 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:48:22 -0700 "Bob La Londe" wrote: Yeah, not this stuff. A lot of it was already splitting, and it was worse in almost every respect than the regular dimensional lumber. Not just one or two bails either. did you say what kind of wood are you talking fir or something else was the wood indoors studs are meant to be used soon after harvesting but at a home supply they sit around and do what they do once cover with siding and drywall and blocked and nailed and screwed harder for them do what they do unconstrained Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - sometimes with some hemlock or Tamarak thrown in for good measure - any "white" softwood they can get their hands on. |
Framing Lumber
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 15:23:43 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote: On 7/16/16 3:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote: studs are meant to be used soon after harvesting.... Cite, please? The big thing is if they are not kiln dried you can NOT leave them sitting out in the sun and expect them to remain anything close to straight. Even kiln dried is not good to leave laying out in the open. Get them from the bale to installed as soon as possible for best results. |
Framing Lumber
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Framing Lumber
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:48:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/16/2016 9:50 PM, wrote: Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - All in the same board? Never used Monsanto lumber? |
Framing Lumber
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:48:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/16/2016 9:50 PM, wrote: Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - All in the same board? Nope - but you have no choice. It's "whatever was standing" when they cleaer cut. |
Framing Lumber
On 7/17/2016 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:48:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/16/2016 9:50 PM, wrote: Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - All in the same board? Never used Monsanto lumber? Yes, they grow the Azek brand. Paint built in right at the tree. |
Framing Lumber
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 18:23:26 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/17/2016 11:07 AM, wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:48:24 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/16/2016 9:50 PM, wrote: Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - All in the same board? Never used Monsanto lumber? Yes, they grow the Azek brand. Paint built in right at the tree. Nevermind... |
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Framing Lumber
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:37:26 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:50:38 -0400 wrote: Around here virtually all construction lumber is "SPF" - Spruce/Pine/Fir mixed - sometimes with some hemlock or Tamarak thrown in for good measure - any "white" softwood they can get their hands on. op never said which wood they were describing but there are always choices and one is not to buy the crap and sometimes you have to go somewhere else or choose a better grade The op said precut studs. Generally speeking they are lower quality than general dimensional lumber sold at the same yard |
Framing Lumber
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400
wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs |
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Electric Comet wrote in
: On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John |
Framing Lumber
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:19:54 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote: Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John The electric comet likely didn't see my post because he plonked me when he got "p"'d off at me for calling him out where he was wrong some-where in the past. |
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On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. |
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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote: Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. True. Around here (i.e. Fla), those are always seperate and are marked as Southern Yellow Pine. The normal run of the mill 2-bys are just marked SPF (if they're marked as anything at all). John |
Framing Lumber
On 7/21/2016 11:17 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote: Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. True. Around here (i.e. Fla), those are always seperate and are marked as Southern Yellow Pine. The normal run of the mill 2-bys are just marked SPF (if they're marked as anything at all). John Do you see much SYP in Florida? I was reading about a majority of homes built years ago in southern Louisiana that don't have a big issue with termites, apparently they are not interested in SYP. SPF was an entirely different story however. I was wondering if Florida may have witnessed the same. |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:10:45 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote: Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. It's quite a nice wood, actually. I've seen century old SYP floors that were still serviceable. |
Framing Lumber
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:10:45 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote: Electric Comet wrote in : On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:33:30 -0400 wrote: The op said precut studs. op still did not say what kind of wood they were talking about even though they clearly mentioned studs OP probably didn't say because OP didn't know because OP was not shopping at a specialty hardwood lumber dealer, and general lumberyards don't say what kind of wood they're selling. As clare said (and you apparently missed), construction lumber is just called "SPF". That's all the OP is likely to have known. John Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. Occaisionally we can by SYP dimensional lumber up here - sometimes in pressure treated. The precut studs up here are virtually all low end SPF |
Framing Lumber
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Framing Lumber
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in
web.com: wrote in : It's quite a nice wood, actually. I've seen century old SYP floors that were still serviceable. I've used SYP for ice rink boards, they seem to last about as long as PT, maybe a little less but are much cheaper. There's a big difference between old growth yellow pine and what you can get now. It's still a very strong wood, but it doesn't have the rot and insect resistance of the close grained old stuff. John |
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On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 4:25:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:10:45 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. It's quite a nice wood, actually. I've seen century old SYP floors that were still serviceable. At Monticello, two plus centuries. It's not clear whether the modern trees and their lumber are the same, though. The environs of Monticello, last I saw, were planted with other tree species. |
Framing Lumber
"John McCoy" wrote in message . .. There was a time when it was the norm. The old growth pine, especially the varietal called Dade County Pine, was too hard for termites to eat (or carpenters to drive nails into, in some cases), and resisted rot, too. Modern development has pretty much eliminated those old houses in south Fla, but they're still to be found upstate. Sounds just like my first 1929-built two-bedroom frame house [for Leon and Swing - a few blocks inside the North Loop on West 25th just a couple of houses off North Shepherd]; almost always had to pre-drill the existing 1X6 pine trim. I remember the wood as being old growth loblolly pine, dense account high in tar content and most often fractionally thicker than 3/4 inch. And the whole structure was [3-5/8 X 1-5/8] two-bys including the rafters though generously braced. I ripped many 1/8 inch strips when I started closing up a doorway in one location and reframing in another. Not a header in the house either. 1X10 shiplap interior walls still had cloth-backed wallpaper under the 1/4 inch drywall and 117 exterior siding without sheathing or felt. Door and window openings were hand hewn when it was necessary to size into a full width piece of 1X10 or the 117. Floors were pine, too, with no subflooring [jeez, did leak cold air!]. The carpenters that built that place had a trick for dealing with a bowed and twisted two by. When I started opening up walls I found several studs that appeared to have been sliced into lengthwise [with a coping saw of some sort?] in order to twist the stud into proper placement on the sole and top plates. Dave in Houston |
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"John McCoy" wrote in message . .. There's a big difference between old growth yellow pine and what you can get now. It's still a very strong wood, but it doesn't have the rot and insect resistance of the close grained old stuff. Hunted an East Texas lease for 12 or 13 years or so back in the 70s and 80s on lumber/paper company acreage, the lease un by a local whose entire working career was with Kirby Lumber. It was second growth having been logged in the early 1900s when the trees were moved from their location on rail trams "These trees have been developed for fast growth and to hold paint," Louie once told me. Growth cycle from planting to harvest being 30 years, give or take, Dave in Houston |
Framing Lumber
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:00:14 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 4:25:54 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:10:45 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir. Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood. It's quite a nice wood, actually. I've seen century old SYP floors that were still serviceable. At Monticello, two plus centuries. It's not clear whether the modern trees and their lumber are the same, though. The environs of Monticello, last I saw, were planted with other tree species. I think Monticello's construction is of longleaf pine, specifically for the exposed interior applications, and it's certainly not the same as today's fast-growing pine lumbers. Though most southern pines are lumped into the SYP category, the premium old lumber was/is the longleaf pine, specifically the heart wood. Grows much slower than other species of pine, hence there are very few LLP trees still around. Very tight grained lumber. Almost all new construction, with LLP, is salvaged lumber, and used for flooring, exposed beams and other exposed decor type applications. No one, in their right mind, would use this premium old lumber for rough framing and the like. From what I understand, for lots of long ago construction in the SE, the old growth LLP was the lumber of choice for exposed interior applications and old growth cypress was used for exterior siding and trim.... the red cypress specifically for doors & window sashes, framing & trim. Though I've never tried to verify, I'd like to think the 16 salvaged 1X12X21' boards, I have, is longleaf pine. Someday, I'll figure out what project(s) to make with them. Sonny |
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On 7/23/2016 8:49 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:
Sounds just like my first 1929-built two-bedroom frame house [for Leon and Swing - a few blocks inside the North Loop on West 25th just a couple of houses off North Shepherd]; almost always had to pre-drill the existing 1X6 pine trim. I remember the wood as being old growth loblolly pine, dense account high in tar content and most often fractionally thicker than 3/4 inch. And the whole structure was [3-5/8 X 1-5/8] two-bys including the rafters though generously braced. I ripped many 1/8 inch strips when I started closing up a doorway in one location and reframing in another. Not a header in the house either. 1X10 shiplap interior walls still had cloth-backed wallpaper under the 1/4 inch drywall and 117 exterior siding without sheathing or felt. Door and window openings were hand hewn when it was necessary to size into a full width piece of 1X10 or the 117. Floors were pine, too, with no subflooring [jeez, did leak cold air!]. The carpenters that built that place had a trick for dealing with a bowed and twisted two by. When I started opening up walls I found several studs that appeared to have been sliced into lengthwise [with a coping saw of some sort?] in order to twist the stud into proper placement on the sole and top plates. Dave in Houston Sounds like my house I owned just North of 20th on Columbia; and the one which I recently did some remodeling on Oxford, just around the corner from that one. Good thing is that Grogan Lumber on Yale still has much of that old trim (shoe, base, crown, door) still in stock ... saved my butt on many occasions. All the new trim on this added BR closet matched perfectly with the existing from the 30's, from their still in stock trim: https://goo.gl/photos/rhpJtfv7s2TGvnnR6 Love it when you can do that ... -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
Framing Lumber
"Dave in SoTex" wrote in
: And the whole structure was [3-5/8 X 1-5/8] two-bys including the rafters though generously braced. There, see, already undersized lumber. A trend that goes way back :-) (I recall helping tear down an old wall up in N Fla, which had actual 2x4 two-bys. Altho I suspect they had been locally sawn, rather than coming from a commercial mill). The carpenters that built that place had a trick for dealing with a bowed and twisted two by. When I started opening up walls I found several studs that appeared to have been sliced into lengthwise [with a coping saw of some sort?] in order to twist the stud into proper placement on the sole and top plates. Boatbuilders have a word for that, which is escaping me now. Of course, in their case they're trying to get a piece of lumber to twist, not to correct it. John |
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Sonny wrote in
: From what I understand, for lots of long ago construction in the SE, the old growth LLP was the lumber of choice for exposed interior applications and old growth cypress was used for exterior siding and trim.... the red cypress specifically for doors & window sashes, framing & trim. Cypress is a hell of a lot easier to work, so that makes sense. Especially if you're making sash and the like with a hand plane. John |
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"John McCoy" wrote in message . .. Boatbuilders have a word for that, which is escaping me now. Of course, in their case they're trying to get a piece of lumber to twist, not to correct it. Where's Lew Hodgett when you need him? Dave in SoTex |
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"John McCoy" wrote in message .. . Cypress is a hell of a lot easier to work, so that makes sense. Especially if you're making sash and the like with a hand plane. I worked in the Southern Pacific Building on Franklin at Travis in the north end of downtown Houston. The building was completed in 1912 and all the windows for all nine floors were double-hung cypress. In the late 70s or early 80 the company replaced them one and all with bronzed double-glazed aluminum. Tried my damndest to get my hands on a dozen or so of those thinking they'd make a bodacious greenhouse. To no avail; company policy did not allow employees to acquire company salvage. Dave in SoTex |
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