seems like a good deal for a complete setup

http://grizzly.com/products/Mini-Tra...per-Kit/T27444

i am not a big fan of their larger equipment but i saw a favorable
review of the larger tracksaw

it is designed in germany

On 2016-03-31, Electric Comet wrote:

it is designed in germany

But, where is it made?

My Bugera guitar amplifier is designed in Germany. It's built in
China. No big deal, as the amp is surprisingly well made. Still, I
get a bit suspicious whenever I see someone trying to capitalize on
the fact something may be "designed" in a location famous for its past
engineering prowess.

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

nb

On 3/31/2016 6:03 PM, notbob wrote:

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

A German product, the Festool TS75 and TS55 were the first "Plunge
Cut"/Track saws to gain a lot of traction in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Bvzhei_sE

DeWalt and Makita both came out with one later.

Both Leon and I are Festool junkies, and swear by the TS75-55 ... be
careful, it's a slippery slope.

Here's mine in action:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...6 52179616130

For the past six or seven years it has taken the place of a job site
table saw for me when remodeling kitchens and baths.

I also use it daily in the shop, particularly to rough cut stacks of
plywood that would be tough to handle in my small shop:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...44992606418418

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On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 7:47:29 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
On 3/31/2016 6:03 PM, notbob wrote:

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

A German product, the Festool TS75 and TS55 were the first "Plunge
Cut"/Track saws to gain a lot of traction in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Bvzhei_sE

DeWalt and Makita both came out with one later.

Both Leon and I are Festool junkies, and swear by the TS75-55 ... be
careful, it's a slippery slope.

Here's mine in action:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...6 52179616130

Are you cutting into the door used as your table...just a little?



For the past six or seven years it has taken the place of a job site
table saw for me when remodeling kitchens and baths.

I also use it daily in the shop, particularly to rough cut stacks of
plywood that would be tough to handle in my small shop:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...44992606418418

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/31/2016 6:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Are you cutting into the door used as your table...just a little?

You betcha.

I can lay my hands on more old doors, which would end up in the dumpster
on most remodel jobs, than I could ever use.

Most of the time we use those, and a couple of folding sawhorse, for
jobsite "work benches".

Flat, light, strong, and disposable ... in that same dumpster.

Think of it as my nod to liberal/progressive values ... gotta start
somewhere.

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On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:03:27 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
On 3/31/2016 6:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Are you cutting into the door used as your table...just a little?

You betcha.

Good Grief! All that extra wear and tear on those expensive Festool blades!


I can lay my hands on more old doors, which would end up in the dumpster
on most remodel jobs, than I could ever use.

I've got four hanging from my garage ceiling, 2 on each side of the GDO
track. The door just barely clears them while moving.


Most of the time we use those, and a couple of folding sawhorse, for
jobsite "work benches".

....and picnic tables!


Flat, light, strong, and disposable ... in that same dumpster.

Think of it as my nod to liberal/progressive values ... gotta start
somewhere.

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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On 31 Mar 2016 23:03:10 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-03-31, Electric Comet wrote:

it is designed in germany

But, where is it made?

My Bugera guitar amplifier is designed in Germany. It's built in
China. No big deal, as the amp is surprisingly well made. Still, I
get a bit suspicious whenever I see someone trying to capitalize on
the fact something may be "designed" in a location famous for its past
engineering prowess.

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

Someone should tell Festool about this idea. I bet they'd sell a
bunch!

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:03:21 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 3/31/2016 6:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Are you cutting into the door used as your table...just a little?

You betcha.

I can lay my hands on more old doors, which would end up in the dumpster
on most remodel jobs, than I could ever use.

I bought the door, so just put a piece of particle board on top. I
framed a lip on the edge of the board to keep it from sliding around.

Most of the time we use those, and a couple of folding sawhorse, for
jobsite "work benches".

Flat, light, strong, and disposable ... in that same dumpster.

Think of it as my nod to liberal/progressive values ... gotta start
somewhere.

Hmmm... the Grizz doesn't stack up all that well. If you want some real utility value out of a track saw, get one that can be used to dimension your work accurately. Otherwise, you can use this:

http://goo.gl/WAMAjK or some variant of this:

http://goo.gl/xzqQDL

Both can be used to rough dimension lumber for breakdown. I used to carry one in my truck, and the Johnson worked surprisingly well with some saws, as long as no one dropped it or bent it.

When I thought I was going to be building some simple shelves for a customer, I was looking at the different track saws. Two competitors, Makita and Dewalt had their pros and cons, each having their strong points, each coming equipped differently, making it hard to compare.

But the one that won in quality of cut every time was the Festool. Never saw DeWalt or Makita beat the Festool, except in price. But when comparing apples to apples, I think Festool is actually fairly competitive in their offering of this tool and after careful comparison there is only a couple of hundred or so dollars difference between the DeWalt and Festool.

The capper on that for me was that I saw the quality of cut that Karl was getting on year when visiting as he had been breaking down the sheet goods as needed for a cabinet order. I remember thinking then, wow... if I had this I wouldn't need to worry about a table saw on a jobsite. And at the end of the day, take it apart, unplug the saw and take the whole thing home with no fuss at all.

But the cut edges... really, really nice. At that time he had been using the saw for about 3 years (IIRC) and the original blade still left a perfect cut edge on the micro thin veneer of the birch cab ply. I think in this setup that the blade alone is probably worth $80 or more, a component OFTEN overlooked in regards to the quality and accuracy of cutting with one of these saws. If the Festool setup lasts that long and cuts that well with the original blade, no doubt, the Festool would be my choice if I am put in that position again.

Personally, I would take my Johnson guide and Makita sidewinder all day long over that Grizzly.

Robert

On 3/31/16 10:33 PM, wrote:
http://goo.gl/xzqQDL


I have an 8' version of that. Work very well.


--

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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/31/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
On 31 Mar 2016 23:03:10 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-03-31, Electric Comet wrote:

it is designed in germany

But, where is it made?

My Bugera guitar amplifier is designed in Germany. It's built in
China. No big deal, as the amp is surprisingly well made. Still, I
get a bit suspicious whenever I see someone trying to capitalize on
the fact something may be "designed" in a location famous for its past
engineering prowess.

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

Someone should tell Festool about this idea. I bet they'd sell a
bunch!



Actually they have one like this but I doubt it is inexpensive.

On 3/31/2016 6:03 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-31, Electric Comet wrote:

it is designed in germany

But, where is it made?

My Bugera guitar amplifier is designed in Germany. It's built in
China. No big deal, as the amp is surprisingly well made. Still, I
get a bit suspicious whenever I see someone trying to capitalize on
the fact something may be "designed" in a location famous for its past
engineering prowess.

That issue aside, WTF is a "tracksaw", besides yet another tool I've
never heard of. I think I get the general idea, though. Instead of a
piece of scrap clamped to a workpiece to act as a makeshift fence, use
extruded alum to make a precision track. Brilliant! Seriously, I can
see why it would be popular fer cutting panels and plywood.

nb



Swingman showed you his track saw, below is what I have done with mine.
I was commissioned by an airline company to build a display for their
convention displays of their aircraft. The lower airplane is 60" long
and has a 60" wing span. The posts that both are mounted on protrude
through the top and anchor with a large peg, on the bottom end, into an
inner lower shelf.
The trick was to cut the hole exact and at a 15 degree angle through the
top. The fit had to be very close to perfect to prevent wiggle. I use
the TS75 track saw to simply plunge to make the cuts, not totally unlike
the action of a drill press. I locked the saw so that it did not slide
on the track. The track also is your alignment tool, it places the saw
precisely where it needs to be. Anyway I covered the top with a Formica
like material after cutting the hole in the top. I also rough cut all
of the separate pieces of laminate with the track saw before adhering
and trimming.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Oddly the company that built the rest of this commercial display could
not build the one to display the star attractions. Like all of the
other display components this had to be broke down and reassembled 50+
times all over the world.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

That was 3 years ago. Six months ago I was invited to the company's
25th anniversary party. It display still looked great. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

On 3/31/2016 10:33 PM, wrote:
Hmmm... the Grizz doesn't stack up all that well. If you want some
real utility value out of a track saw, get one that can be used to
dimension your work accurately. Otherwise, you can use this:

http://goo.gl/WAMAjK or some variant of this:

http://goo.gl/xzqQDL

Both can be used to rough dimension lumber for breakdown. I used to
carry one in my truck, and the Johnson worked surprisingly well with
some saws, as long as no one dropped it or bent it.

When I thought I was going to be building some simple shelves for a
customer, I was looking at the different track saws. Two
competitors, Makita and Dewalt had their pros and cons, each having
their strong points, each coming equipped differently, making it hard
to compare.

But the one that won in quality of cut every time was the Festool.
Never saw DeWalt or Makita beat the Festool, except in price. But
when comparing apples to apples, I think Festool is actually fairly
competitive in their offering of this tool and after careful
comparison there is only a couple of hundred or so dollars difference
between the DeWalt and Festool.

The capper on that for me was that I saw the quality of cut that Karl
was getting on year when visiting as he had been breaking down the
sheet goods as needed for a cabinet order. I remember thinking then,
wow... if I had this I wouldn't need to worry about a table saw on a
jobsite. And at the end of the day, take it apart, unplug the saw
and take the whole thing home with no fuss at all.

But the cut edges... really, really nice. At that time he had been
using the saw for about 3 years (IIRC) and the original blade still
left a perfect cut edge on the micro thin veneer of the birch cab
ply. I think in this setup that the blade alone is probably worth
$80 or more, a component OFTEN overlooked in regards to the quality
and accuracy of cutting with one of these saws. If the Festool setup
lasts that long and cuts that well with the original blade, no doubt,
the Festool would be my choice if I am put in that position again.

Personally, I would take my Johnson guide and Makita sidewinder all
day long over that Grizzly.

Robert


IIRC Karl had the Johnson like guide and a Makita sidewinder when we
began working together on kitchens 10 or so years ago. IIRC the saw
carriage had roller bearings to guide the saw down the track.

I do recall having to clamp the track to the work, something that you do
not have to do with the Festool tracks and the clones. I never clamp
the track on thick material that stays relatively flat. I do use clamps
on 1/4" sheet goods.

On 3/31/2016 8:18 PM, krw wrote:

I bought the door, so just put a piece of particle board on top. I
framed a lip on the edge of the board to keep it from sliding around.

The doors I use for this purpose already have a problem, or we would
donate them to Habit for Humanity.

But, we still use them before doing so by using a sheet of 3/4"
insulation as a pad to protect them.

AAMOF, in one of the photos you can see that being done while cutting on
top of a stack of plywood.

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On 2016-04-01, Swingman wrote:

donate them to Habit for Humanity.

We have a HfH Re-Sale store. Been there a few times. Lotta doors!

nb

On 4/1/2016 8:52 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-04-01, Swingman wrote:

donate them to Habit for Humanity.

We have a HfH Re-Sale store. Been there a few times. Lotta doors!

And sinks ... got to the point where some ReStores won't even take them.

When building a house, and suddenly needing odd items, like a hard to
find Simpson product, I always check the local Habitat ReStore ... saved
my butt quite a few times, in more than one city.

I use a program/system called "Priority Matrix" for project management.
The last item on any matrix/list, when either building or remodeling,
is: "Call Habitat/schedule pickup".

Great organization, IME.

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On 4/1/16 8:48 AM, Swingman wrote:

The doors I use for this purpose already have a problem, or we would
donate them to Habit for Humanity.


Those door in the racks at Home Depot and Lowes already have a problem...
They were made and being sold as doors. :-)


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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
On 4/1/2016 8:52 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-04-01, Swingman wrote:

donate them to Habit for Humanity.

We have a HfH Re-Sale store. Been there a few times. Lotta doors!

And sinks ... got to the point where some ReStores won't even take them.


....snip...

ReStore doors.

My son lived in a basement room of a friend's house. The basement stairs
went down to a landing, then you turned left or right and down 2 steps
into a room on either side of the landing. There were no doors on either
room when he (and his girlfriend) moved in. The room to the left was the
laundry room, used by all the other housemates. He (and especially his
GF) really wanted a door on his side.

The wall for the stairs ended at the landing, so the only place to hang
the door was at the end of that wall, opening into the room. That meant
that the door had to be hung so that it closed over the step and against
the landing.

We went to a Re-Store, found a door for $20 and asked if they had a
jamb. The guy found a jamb and threw it in for free. Another $5 for
hinges and hardware and we were set.

We went back to the house, cut down the door and jamb - a lot - to fit
over the step and hung it. We actually hung it upside down so that the
knob was at a reasonable height when you stood on the landing. It sure
was funny looking. You had to reach down to open it from outside of the
room and up to open it from the inside. When it was open, it was something
like 8" off the floor because of the step.

It served its purpose - for the whole 3 months that he lived there. Kids!

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 11:15:24 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

Those door in the racks at Home Depot and Lowes already have a problem...
They were made and being sold as doors. :-)

Right there with you! Some of the doors they sell should be used as pallet skids to protect their concrete. Out of square, varying thickness across the length, etc. And to the big box guys, a "hollow" door means hollow. Last retrofit of a couple of colonial style panel doors I felt like I was buying a four sided frame with nothing in it.

I cut the door for length and found that to be true.

At lease their smooth hollow doors have a cardboard matrix in them. Nothing at all in the colonial style blanks I bought from Lowe's.

Robert

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 12:32:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 11:15:24 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

Those door in the racks at Home Depot and Lowes already have a problem....
They were made and being sold as doors. :-)

Right there with you! Some of the doors they sell should be used as pallet skids to protect their concrete. Out of square, varying thickness across the length, etc. And to the big box guys, a "hollow" door means hollow. Last retrofit of a couple of colonial style panel doors I felt like I was buying a four sided frame with nothing in it.

I cut the door for length and found that to be true.

At lease their smooth hollow doors have a cardboard matrix in them. Nothing at all in the colonial style blanks I bought from Lowe's.


My buddy had a tract house built a few years back. Not a bad looking
place. He told the builder that his wife wanted a cat door put in the
colonial style door going to the basement. He asked the builder what it
would cost to have him do it because he didn't want to void any warranties
by doing it himself (he's not a real handy guy). The builder told him to
try it himself first. He said he could replace the door for cheaper than
he would have to charge him in labor to put the cat door in. That should
tell you the quality of the doors they used.

I ended up helping him (read: doing it). The door did have a cardboard matrix
in some sections, but the whole door was basically cardboard.

It's been about 6 years. The house is still standing and the cat door hasn't
fallen out yet. Go figure.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:54:49 -0700
Electric Comet wrote:


seems like a good deal for a complete setup

the 6 inch model does not give much more cutting depth so this one looks
even better at 115

i notice they call it a rail and not a track so maybe some patent issue

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hmmm... the Grizz doesn't stack up all that well. If you want some real utility value out of a track saw, get one that can be used to dimension your work accurately. Otherwise, you can use this:

http://goo.gl/WAMAjK or some variant of this:

http://goo.gl/xzqQDL

Both can be used to rough dimension lumber for breakdown. I used to carry one in my truck, and the Johnson worked surprisingly well with some saws, as long as no one dropped it or bent it.

When I thought I was going to be building some simple shelves for a customer, I was looking at the different track saws. Two competitors, Makita and Dewalt had their pros and cons, each having their strong points, each coming equipped differently, making it hard to compare.

But the one that won in quality of cut every time was the Festool. Never saw DeWalt or Makita beat the Festool, except in price. But when comparing apples to apples, I think Festool is actually fairly competitive in their offering of this tool and after careful comparison there is only a couple of hundred or so dollars difference between the DeWalt and Festool.

I went though the same sort of decision process five years ago, or so.
I decided that the difference in price between the three was
insignificant and the Festool was more flexible with more accessories
available. I wish I'd bought the TS75, though. My TS-55 is a little
wimpy.

The capper on that for me was that I saw the quality of cut that Karl was getting on year when visiting as he had been breaking down the sheet goods as needed for a cabinet order. I remember thinking then, wow... if I had this I wouldn't need to worry about a table saw on a jobsite. And at the end of the day, take it apart, unplug the saw and take the whole thing home with no fuss at all.

But the cut edges... really, really nice. At that time he had been using the saw for about 3 years (IIRC) and the original blade still left a perfect cut edge on the micro thin veneer of the birch cab ply. I think in this setup that the blade alone is probably worth $80 or more, a component OFTEN overlooked in regards to the quality and accuracy of cutting with one of these saws. If the Festool setup lasts that long and cuts that well with the original blade, no doubt, the Festool would be my choice if I am put in that position again.

Personally, I would take my Johnson guide and Makita sidewinder all day long over that Grizzly.

Robert

Electric Comet wrote:


it is designed in germany

So is this, but it ain't cheap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuFejrI5mwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvwrUMHu2oc

http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools...PSS3100se.html

On 2016-04-04, Spalted Walt wrote:

So is this, but it ain't cheap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuFejrI5mwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvwrUMHu2oc

http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools...PSS3100se.html

Yikes!

Jes bring $$$$ and you can eventually sit in yer living room while yer
workshop does all the actuall woodworking. How long before Microsoft
gets wind of this and makes it an XBox pkg?

nb