How cheap can a cheap battery charger be?

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? This is it:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618 It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...HG%20EZ2%20002 It
says "How often should you charge your golf cart’s batteries? A good
rule of thumb is to plug them in after as little as 15 minutes of
driving. However, you also want to avoid overcharging your batteries,
which causes water loss and subsequent failure. With the Buggies
Unlimited 48-Volt Microprocessing Charger, you don’t need to keep tabs
on your golf cart while it’s charging – this smart charger
continuously monitors your battery voltage and charges it exactly as
much as it needs – no over- or undercharging.

[One of the chargers on Amazon for 310 dollars said the user had a
choice of 4 charging protocols. They were all similar, but there must
be some worthwhile diffence, or no? The one I just quoted just says
"Exactly as much as it needs"!!]

You’ll get more daily power and extended life from your batteries.

* Features “full float” charging capability, which holds your
batteries at an appropriate voltage, ensuring that they're fresh and
ready to go even after long periods of storage [If the cart is used
every day 9-5, M-F, and never has long periods of storage, does this
matter?]
....
* LED status lights show the charging progress from 0% to 100% [it
has 6 led's.]

On Aug 19, 1:33*am, mm wrote:
How cheap can a cheap battery charger be? *

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? *Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. * But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." *Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? * *This is it:http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618* It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. *Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". *Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? *Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...20EZ2%20002*It
says *"How often should you charge your golf cart’s batteries? A good
rule of thumb is to plug them in after as little as 15 minutes of
driving. However, you also want to avoid overcharging your batteries,
which causes water loss and subsequent failure. With the Buggies
Unlimited 48-Volt Microprocessing Charger, you don’t need to keep tabs
on your golf cart while it’s charging – this smart charger
continuously monitors your battery voltage and charges it exactly as
much as it needs – no over- or undercharging.

[One of the chargers on Amazon for 310 dollars said the user had a
choice of 4 charging protocols. *They were all similar, but there must
be some worthwhile diffence, or no? *The one I just quoted just says
"Exactly as much as it needs"!!]

You’ll get more daily power and extended life from your batteries.

* * * Features “full float” charging capability, which holds your
batteries at an appropriate voltage, ensuring that they're fresh and
ready to go even after long periods of storage *[If the cart is used
every day 9-5, M-F, and never has long periods of storage, does this
matter?]
* * *.... * *
* * * LED status lights show the charging progress from 0% to 100% [it
has 6 led's.]

Harbor Freight is selling a device that senses charge and supposedly
avoids overcharging, and they are running a special on it. Normally
about $9, special at about $5.

On Aug 19, 12:33*am, mm wrote:
How cheap can a cheap battery charger be? *

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? *Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. * But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." *Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? * *This is it:http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618* It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. *Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". *Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? *Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...20EZ2%20002*It
says *"How often should you charge your golf cart’s batteries? A good
rule of thumb is to plug them in after as little as 15 minutes of
driving. However, you also want to avoid overcharging your batteries,
which causes water loss and subsequent failure. With the Buggies
Unlimited 48-Volt Microprocessing Charger, you don’t need to keep tabs
on your golf cart while it’s charging – this smart charger
continuously monitors your battery voltage and charges it exactly as
much as it needs – no over- or undercharging.

[One of the chargers on Amazon for 310 dollars said the user had a
choice of 4 charging protocols. *They were all similar, but there must
be some worthwhile diffence, or no? *The one I just quoted just says
"Exactly as much as it needs"!!]

You’ll get more daily power and extended life from your batteries.

* * * Features “full float” charging capability, which holds your
batteries at an appropriate voltage, ensuring that they're fresh and
ready to go even after long periods of storage *[If the cart is used
every day 9-5, M-F, and never has long periods of storage, does this
matter?]
* * *.... * *
* * * LED status lights show the charging progress from 0% to 100% [it
has 6 led's.]

www.batteryuniversity.com will answer most questions you have on
battery care. I would just verify what it does with a good volt meter
and learn to check cell gravity with a accurate gravity gauge, one
that you put a drop of acid in the tool and look at it is accurate. If
you learn how to really care for batteries they will last longer

mm wrote:

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? This is it:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618 It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...HG%20EZ2%20002

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there
except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:14:42 -0700 (PDT), "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:



mm wrote:

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? This is it:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618 It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...HG%20EZ2%20002

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there

I coudl have take it apart when I had it, but I didn't. Too late
now.

except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

Thanks.

These are 36 Volt golf cart Chargers. The OP is correct that the more
expensive one, which is microprocessor controlled is what is commonly
called a "smart charger". It will charge the batteries faster, and
will not overcharge them if left connected for extended periods of
time.

With the price of golf cart batteries, buying the smart charger is
well worth the extra money.

Well, that's what I told her but I promised her a follow up email,
where I would have back tracked some if you hadn't confirmed this.

Thanks, and thanks all.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:50:39 -0700 (PDT), Michael B
wrote:

On Aug 19, 1:33*am, mm wrote:

You’ll get more daily power and extended life from your batteries.

* * * Features “full float” charging capability, which holds your
batteries at an appropriate voltage, ensuring that they're fresh and
ready to go even after long periods of storage *[If the cart is used
every day 9-5, M-F, and never has long periods of storage, does this
matter?]
* * *.... * *
* * * LED status lights show the charging progress from 0% to 100% [it
has 6 led's.]

Harbor Freight is selling a device that senses charge and supposedly
avoids overcharging, and they are running a special on it. Normally
about $9, special at about $5.

Thanks.

But I searched on overcharge prevent
and found solar charge controller for 75 dollars
http://www.harborfreight.com/30-amp-...ler-94790.html

on voltage sense found nothing
on voltage foudn 8 things, pliers and testers

Anyhow, I guess youre just saying that the circuit might be very
cheap. I'm out of this project now, and if she has to spend 100
dollars more for the better charger, even though it costs the maker
only an extra ten, she'll have to. That one charger is better than
the other is all I need to tell her.

Thanks.

On 8/19/2010 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:14:42 -0700 (PDT), "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:



mm wrote:

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? This is it:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618 It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...HG%20EZ2%20002

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there
except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

These are 36 Volt golf cart Chargers. The OP is correct that the more
expensive one, which is microprocessor controlled is what is commonly
called a "smart charger". It will charge the batteries faster, and
will not overcharge them if left connected for extended periods of
time.

With the price of golf cart batteries, buying the smart charger is
well worth the extra money.

That's my take also. It seems doubtful the existing charger will damage
the batteries, it's more likely it won't maintain them as well.

Buggies Unlimited certainly doesn't load you down with any "excess"
information to worry about.

Since you have the charger you can observe it and see if it shuts down
(which seems likely) and if it trickles back on (which seems unlikely).

I'd say the new charger is at least as good as the old. ;-)

Jeff

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:30:10 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:14:42 -0700 (PDT), "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:



mm wrote:

Do all chargers except the very cheapest turn off when the battery is
charged, or are there still some big expensive ones that don't do
that, as for a golf cart? Or is the difference more subtle than that,
and important?

That is, the people with the golf-cart (see follow-up post on that
adjacent to this one) bought a new charger, mail order, from a site on
the web that is about golf carts only.

The thing costs 360 dollars!, not what I would call cheap. But on
its label it says, "Check the charger periodically to avoid damaging
batteries. Initial charging rate should be [I forget, 15 maybe] and at
the end the rate should be 2 amps." Does this imply they should turn
off the charger when it's charging at 2 amps? Or it will damage the
batteries? This is it:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=3618 It doesn't say
much but it calls it an automatic charger. Doesn't that mean it turns
off? But is that still not good enough and the fancier one below is
needed to keep the batteries from being damaged?

The more expensive charger in the catalog they sent is about $455, and
the first words in its description in the paper catalog are "Avoid
over-charging batteries". Does that mean this one has auto-turn-off
and the one for 360 doesn't? Or are they just not mentioning it for
the cheap one to get people to buy the expensive one? Here's the
expensive one:
http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/prod...HG%20EZ2%20002

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there

I coudl have take it apart when I had it, but I didn't. Too late
now.

except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

Thanks.

These are 36 Volt golf cart Chargers. The OP is correct that the more
expensive one, which is microprocessor controlled is what is commonly
called a "smart charger". It will charge the batteries faster, and
will not overcharge them if left connected for extended periods of
time.

With the price of golf cart batteries, buying the smart charger is
well worth the extra money.

Well, that's what I told her but I promised her a follow up email,
where I would have back tracked some if you hadn't confirmed this.

Thanks, and thanks all.
My cheapest battery charger is a variac (surplus - no cost) and a
bridge rectifier with a cheap voltmeter. If you need to limit the
current just hook a heater in series with the output or a 100 watt
bulb in series with the input

wrote:

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there
except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

These are 36 Volt golf cart Chargers.

What in my reply doesn't apply to 36V golf cart chargers?

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Can you see all the components inside? If there's nothing there
except a transformer, some diodes, an ammeter, and a circuit breaker
or two, it's a manual charger and can overcharge batteries and damage
them. OTOH the simplest automatic chargers for lead-acid batteries
have voltage limiters calibrated to about 2.3V per cell, meaning at
full charge they'll put out less than about 1/2 amp and can be left
connected for at least a couple of days after full charge. These
voltage limiters usually consist of a regulator chip controlling an
SCR (about 1/2" square plastic thing with 3 leads on it). Better
chargers will shut off completely at full charge but will restart when
the voltage drops to roughly 2.1V per cell. Old style chargers are
heavy because they have a big 60 Hz transformer, but newer designs use
a much smaller transformer that works at high frequency, and these
always have elaborate control circuitry to completely shut off the
current at full charge.

These are 36 Volt golf cart Chargers.

What in my reply doesn't apply to 36V golf cart chargers?

Hey, MOE!

It applies.

He just can't apply it.

nyuk. nyuk.

Steve

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