well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

will they provide a teardown revealing all

will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not


will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known

On 9/19/2015 2:02 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

will they provide a teardown revealing all

will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not


will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known



Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier. I'm sure their tools have some
advantages, but they aren't the Holy Grail of the woodworking industry, IMO.

Meanie wrote:

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier. I'm sure their tools have some
advantages, but they aren't the Holy Grail of the woodworking
industry, IMO.

I don't know about that... Rumor has it that Noah attributed his sucess in
building the ark, to his collection of Festools. Of course he had two of
everything they make...

--

-Mike-

On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:


Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier. I'm sure their tools have some
advantages, but they aren't the Holy Grail of the woodworking industry,
IMO.


Does you shirt fit with that chip on your shoulder?

Yes, Festool is high priced. Is it worth the money? Subjective.

Cameras, golf clubs, stereo components, cars, tools, they have one thing
in common. As the price goes up, the value starts to slide. Twice the
price is not twice as good. Cars usually come it two or three levels of
trim. As the price goes up, the value goes up but not as much. My
choice is to buy the top level because I like all the goodies and I'm
willing to pay for it. Maybe you are not. We have choices.

Yes, most companies do make more profit, but you may be enjoying some of
it., If you own stock, have a 401k, Mutual fund or IRA chances are you
are part of the stock market and are benefiting from the company profit.

Unless you have actually used one and have done the comparison yourself,
it just sounds like sour grapes to knock it or the price of it.

On 9/19/2015 7:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:


Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier. I'm sure their tools have some
advantages, but they aren't the Holy Grail of the woodworking industry,
IMO.


Does you shirt fit with that chip on your shoulder?

Yes, Festool is high priced. Is it worth the money? Subjective.

Cameras, golf clubs, stereo components, cars, tools, they have one thing
in common. As the price goes up, the value starts to slide. Twice the
price is not twice as good. Cars usually come it two or three levels of
trim. As the price goes up, the value goes up but not as much. My
choice is to buy the top level because I like all the goodies and I'm
willing to pay for it. Maybe you are not. We have choices.

Yes, most companies do make more profit, but you may be enjoying some of
it., If you own stock, have a 401k, Mutual fund or IRA chances are you
are part of the stock market and are benefiting from the company profit.

Unless you have actually used one and have done the comparison yourself,
it just sounds like sour grapes to knock it or the price of it.

You knock me for stating a fact when you prove that fact by your
statement of "as the price goes up, the value starts to slide". SO
which is it, chip on my shoulder or, we'll call it, factual observation?

You are correct, you want to pay top dollar, that's your choice. I have
paid top dollar for many products throughout the years. Some have
impressed me, many have not. I have accomplished many tasks using a
lower cost item (Harbor Freight debate comes to mind) for both hobby and
profession with no complaints. You want to call it a chip even with your
contradiction, so be it. I call it reality, because that's really what
it is.

On 9/19/2015 9:18 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/19/2015 7:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:



As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier.



You knock me for stating a fact when you prove that fact by your
statement of "as the price goes up, the value starts to slide". SO
which is it, chip on my shoulder or, we'll call it, factual observation?

I didn't say it was overrated and a money grabbing device to make a CEO
wealthier. That is the chip.



You are correct, you want to pay top dollar, that's your choice. I have
paid top dollar for many products throughout the years. Some have
impressed me, many have not. I have accomplished many tasks using a
lower cost item (Harbor Freight debate comes to mind) for both hobby and
profession with no complaints. You want to call it a chip even with your
contradiction, so be it. I call it reality, because that's really what
it is.

No contradiction. My statement was the value/price equation, not the
negativity of a money grabbing overrated tool. It performs well, as
advertised. I buy if it has value to me and not a consideration of the
salary of the CEO

In article , lid
says...

well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

will they provide a teardown revealing all

will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not


will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known

I'm already on McFeely's mailing list--no skin off my butt to get more
junk mail from them the odd chance of getting swag.

Electric Comet wrote:
well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here

Me too, one less that will need to hear the reason why. :-)


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

Probably not, no tool manufacturer makes the best of everything.



will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

Maybe only if they join a discussion on why a particular tool is better


will they provide a teardown revealing all


Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion on
the mechanics wear and tear.



will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not

I will if I win, but then I would have to enter and I don't want even more
junk mail.



will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known

You probably hit the nail on the head with the new manually operated but
superior Festool hammer.

On 9/20/2015 9:49 AM, Leon wrote:


You probably hit the nail on the head with the new manually operated but
superior Festool hammer.


Can we get a review of that hammer? List price? Where does it get the
power from?

It takes a revolutionary manufacturer like Festool to come out with a
tool that can be operated with no electricity or compressed air.
Amazing technology.

On 9/20/2015 8:49 AM, Leon wrote:

You probably hit the nail on the head with the new manually operated but
superior Festool hammer.

Like that Festool tape measure, the classic solution looking for a
problem, that has never measured a board, after the first one.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/19/2015 4:13 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/19/2015 2:02 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

will they provide a teardown revealing all

will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not


will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really
really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known



Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

Absolutely, same can be said about those that do it with out Ryobi,
Porter Cable, Fein, Bosch, and or any other brand that might be priced
above their comfort level or need.

But the unique difference between a hobbyist and a pro is the ability to
make a profit. Business being, "managed properly", the better value
tools, often more expensive, are the better choices.

On 9/19/2015 4:29 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Meanie wrote:

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier. I'm sure their tools have some
advantages, but they aren't the Holy Grail of the woodworking
industry, IMO.

I don't know about that... Rumor has it that Noah attributed his sucess in
building the ark, to his collection of Festools. Of course he had two of
everything they make...


I would suggest that his success was because of a far greater thing than
his tools.
Knowledge that it was to happen.

I know you were kidding.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Me too, one less that will need to hear the reason why. :-)

i just want to know if the vac is quiet

my old vac makes my ears bleed

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

On 9/20/2015 10:03 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/20/2015 9:49 AM, Leon wrote:


You probably hit the nail on the head with the new manually operated but
superior Festool hammer.


Can we get a review of that hammer? List price? Where does it get the
power from?

It takes a revolutionary manufacturer like Festool to come out with a
tool that can be operated with no electricity or compressed air. Amazing
technology.


;~) I was hoping some one would catch that.

On 9/20/2015 1:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Me too, one less that will need to hear the reason why. :-)

i just want to know if the vac is quiet

my old vac makes my ears bleed


Quiet is relative.

It is the quietest vac I have ever heard except for maybe the Fein.

I seldom hear the vac when using along with the tool that I am using, be
that a corded drill with the Kreg pocket hold jig, track saw, or either
sander. The power tool, not the vac, is the dominating sound that you
hear. In fact I cannot tell by sound, when using with another tool with
it, if it is on low or high suction power. I have to look at the dial.
Just used alone to vacuum a surface you can tell by sound whether it
is on high or low suction.

For reference, a drill press might be quieter.

On 9/20/2015 1:19 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

It's not for every one, nor is every Festool tool for me.

Food for thought on the bearings, and I did not watch the video again or
much past him commenting on the quality of the armature bearing/bushing
on the outer case.

In the automotive industry, vehicles, certainly American vehicles, with
manual transmissions use a brass/bronze bushing called a pilot
bearing/bushing.

It pressed into the transmission end of the engine crankshaft. The input
shaft that comes out of the manual transmission protrudes through the
clutch pressure plate, clutch plate, and into that bushing/bearing.

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

Had an old Ranger, had the clutch replaced they did the pilot bushing
trice as the first two squealed like a stuck pig.

On 9/20/2015 3:04 PM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

Had an old Ranger, had the clutch replaced they did the pilot bushing
trice as the first two squealed like a stuck pig.

And one of the number one reason not to replace them if they ain't broke
because you have to completely undo/redo every step. I don't recall if
you have to remove the pressure plate to get to the pilot bushing. It is
back in there 2~4 inches and you are working through a hole that is the
diameter of the input shaft. ;~)

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:34:46 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/19/2015 4:13 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/19/2015 2:02 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
well are ya

http://www.mcfeelystv.com/festoolsweepstakes.html

i hope for the sake of some vigorous discussion here that a non-festool
owner wins and can report back here


will the winner convert completely over to festool if they win one

will they join the ranks of other festool owners and extol the virtues
of festool forevermore

will they provide a teardown revealing all

will they just remind us frequently that they won and we did not


will they chastise me for posting this because they secretly really
really
really want a festool and do not want the sweepstakes to be known



Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

Absolutely, same can be said about those that do it with out Ryobi,
Porter Cable, Fein, Bosch, and or any other brand that might be priced
above their comfort level or need.

But the unique difference between a hobbyist and a pro is the ability to
make a profit. Business being, "managed properly", the better value
tools, often more expensive, are the better choices.

That same difference works both ways. A hobbyist doesn't have to
justify his expense on profit. "I want" stands on its own. My
justification for buying the "best" is that it only hurts once. In
the past, I've upgraded the same tool a number of times. That's not
going to happen anymore.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 1:19 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

It's not for every one, nor is every Festool tool for me.

Food for thought on the bearings, and I did not watch the video again or
much past him commenting on the quality of the armature bearing/bushing
on the outer case.

In the automotive industry, vehicles, certainly American vehicles, with
manual transmissions use a brass/bronze bushing called a pilot
bearing/bushing.

It pressed into the transmission end of the engine crankshaft. The input
shaft that comes out of the manual transmission protrudes through the
clutch pressure plate, clutch plate, and into that bushing/bearing.

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

However, the pilot bearing never has any sideways torque on it. When
it's in use, there is no power being delivered to the wheels.

On 9/20/2015 5:29 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 1:19 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

It's not for every one, nor is every Festool tool for me.

Food for thought on the bearings, and I did not watch the video again or
much past him commenting on the quality of the armature bearing/bushing
on the outer case.

In the automotive industry, vehicles, certainly American vehicles, with
manual transmissions use a brass/bronze bushing called a pilot
bearing/bushing.

It pressed into the transmission end of the engine crankshaft. The input
shaft that comes out of the manual transmission protrudes through the
clutch pressure plate, clutch plate, and into that bushing/bearing.

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

However, the pilot bearing never has any sideways torque on it. When
it's in use, there is no power being delivered to the wheels.



It simply prevents the clutch plate from weighing down on the input
shaft and keeping it centered when the clutch is released. If the
input shaft were allowed to settle from the weight of the clutch plate
and the clutch plate went slightly off center there would be a heck of a
vibration when letting out on the clutch pedal. It has a slight load
then the transmission is disengaged by the clutch. The outer input
shaft bearing and the pilot bushing carry the weight of the clutch plate
and in put shaft when the clutch is released and the pilot bearing
continues to spin around the end of the input shaft.

On the saw 99.5 % of the load is carried by the bearings nearest the
gears. Those bearings have to be stout but the end cap bearing gets
very little load by comparison and why they are not over built. There
is not much leverage to apply much force on the end cap bearing.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:28:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:29 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 1:19 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

It's not for every one, nor is every Festool tool for me.

Food for thought on the bearings, and I did not watch the video again or
much past him commenting on the quality of the armature bearing/bushing
on the outer case.

In the automotive industry, vehicles, certainly American vehicles, with
manual transmissions use a brass/bronze bushing called a pilot
bearing/bushing.

It pressed into the transmission end of the engine crankshaft. The input
shaft that comes out of the manual transmission protrudes through the
clutch pressure plate, clutch plate, and into that bushing/bearing.

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

However, the pilot bearing never has any sideways torque on it. When
it's in use, there is no power being delivered to the wheels.



It simply prevents the clutch plate from weighing down on the input
shaft and keeping it centered when the clutch is released. If the
input shaft were allowed to settle from the weight of the clutch plate
and the clutch plate went slightly off center there would be a heck of a
vibration when letting out on the clutch pedal. It has a slight load
then the transmission is disengaged by the clutch. The outer input
shaft bearing and the pilot bushing carry the weight of the clutch plate
and in put shaft when the clutch is released and the pilot bearing
continues to spin around the end of the input shaft.

Sure, but the point being that it's not doing anything unless the
clutch is depressed and then there is no energy being transferred so
it's not doing much then either


On the saw 99.5 % of the load is carried by the bearings nearest the
gears. Those bearings have to be stout but the end cap bearing gets
very little load by comparison and why they are not over built. There
is not much leverage to apply much force on the end cap bearing.

Well, there is a force tangent to the shaft, tending to want to twist
the bearings, because the cutting isn't symmetrical. The rear bearing
has to take that force. I'm sure it's more than .5%. ;-)

On 9/20/2015 9:03 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:28:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:29 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:14:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 1:19 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:42 -0500
Leon wrote:

Hopefully not, as they probably are not qualified to offer an opinion
on the mechanics wear and tear.

well it is fun to see the innards of various equipment
as for the opinions no big deal everyone has one


i realize now that until i watched the tear-down of that track saw i had
never even heard of a track saw so sometimes there really is no such thing
as bad press

it is a good idea but not in my budget

It's not for every one, nor is every Festool tool for me.

Food for thought on the bearings, and I did not watch the video again or
much past him commenting on the quality of the armature bearing/bushing
on the outer case.

In the automotive industry, vehicles, certainly American vehicles, with
manual transmissions use a brass/bronze bushing called a pilot
bearing/bushing.

It pressed into the transmission end of the engine crankshaft. The input
shaft that comes out of the manual transmission protrudes through the
clutch pressure plate, clutch plate, and into that bushing/bearing.

When the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running the
bushing/bearing spins around the end of that transmission shaft. While
the majority of the time the vehicle is moving it often stops at stop
signs, traffic lights, and parking lots. In that instance the bearing/
bushing is spinning around the transmission shaft.
These bushings often last for tens of thousands of miles and are often
never replaced. Considering mileage and horse power of the average
vehicle compared to a Festool track saw and the fact that both the saw
and vehicle bearing are pretty much doing the same thing, positioning a
spinning shaft with out much of a load I think the Festool bearing will
be fine for another 40 years. ;~)

However, the pilot bearing never has any sideways torque on it. When
it's in use, there is no power being delivered to the wheels.



It simply prevents the clutch plate from weighing down on the input
shaft and keeping it centered when the clutch is released. If the
input shaft were allowed to settle from the weight of the clutch plate
and the clutch plate went slightly off center there would be a heck of a
vibration when letting out on the clutch pedal. It has a slight load
then the transmission is disengaged by the clutch. The outer input
shaft bearing and the pilot bushing carry the weight of the clutch plate
and in put shaft when the clutch is released and the pilot bearing
continues to spin around the end of the input shaft.

Sure, but the point being that it's not doing anything unless the
clutch is depressed and then there is no energy being transferred so
it's not doing much then either


And that was the point I was trying to make about the pilot bushing not
doing much work at all a majority of the time especially when the
vehicle is under way. But there is slight work being done by the
bushing when the engine is running and the clutch is disengaged, it is
keeping the input shaft and clutch plate properly aligned when the
pressure plate is not holding every thing in place. Remember, the crank
shaft and pilot bearing continue to spin whether the input shaft is
turning or not.

With the Portable circular saw there is a similar load but the real load
is so very close to the armature gear and gear bearing that the end cap
bearing basically only has to hold the armature in alignment. The
bearing on the other end of the armature is handling 99%
of the load.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 13:31:04 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Quiet is relative.

my relatives are not quiet

I seldom hear the vac when using along with the tool that I am using,
be that a corded drill with the Kreg pocket hold jig, track saw, or
either sander. The power tool, not the vac, is the dominating sound
that you hear. In fact I cannot tell by sound, when using with

the only tool i have that is louder is my planer

the other annoying thing about my shop vac is the exhaust comes out of
canister handles and is directed downward

i had a bucket of saw dust and the shop vac was next to the bucket
instant dust cloud

fwiw i use the saw dust in garden mulch

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 07:02:58 -0400
"J. Clarke" wrote:

more junk mail from them the odd chance of getting swag.

be careful calling it swag here

On 9/21/2015 10:52 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 13:31:04 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Quiet is relative.

my relatives are not quiet

I seldom hear the vac when using along with the tool that I am using,
be that a corded drill with the Kreg pocket hold jig, track saw, or
either sander. The power tool, not the vac, is the dominating sound
that you hear. In fact I cannot tell by sound, when using with

the only tool i have that is louder is my planer

the other annoying thing about my shop vac is the exhaust comes out of
canister handles and is directed downward

i had a bucket of saw dust and the shop vac was next to the bucket
instant dust cloud

fwiw i use the saw dust in garden mulch

Is that working for you, the mulch?

My sister was a gardener, kind'a serious at one time. She claimed that
the fresh saw dust used as mulch should compost for a while before use.
Apparently the fresh sawdust takes nutrients from the soil and other
plants if it goes on fresh and has not begun to decompose.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:28:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/21/2015 10:52 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 13:31:04 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Quiet is relative.

my relatives are not quiet

I seldom hear the vac when using along with the tool that I am using,
be that a corded drill with the Kreg pocket hold jig, track saw, or
either sander. The power tool, not the vac, is the dominating sound
that you hear. In fact I cannot tell by sound, when using with

the only tool i have that is louder is my planer

the other annoying thing about my shop vac is the exhaust comes out of
canister handles and is directed downward

i had a bucket of saw dust and the shop vac was next to the bucket
instant dust cloud

fwiw i use the saw dust in garden mulch

Is that working for you, the mulch?

My sister was a gardener, kind'a serious at one time. She claimed that
the fresh saw dust used as mulch should compost for a while before use.
Apparently the fresh sawdust takes nutrients from the soil and other
plants if it goes on fresh and has not begun to decompose.

It can raise the nitrogen levels of the soil, if you have ever burned
out a bit of lawn with to much fertilizer same idea. Composting with
extra green stuff lessens that problem.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:28:02 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Is that working for you, the mulch?

My sister was a gardener, kind'a serious at one time. She claimed
that the fresh saw dust used as mulch should compost for a while
before use. Apparently the fresh sawdust takes nutrients from the
soil and other plants if it goes on fresh and has not begun to
decompose.

it is worse than that
it can kill off plants if you apply it directly

she is right that it has to be mixed into compost and the compost let to
go thru the stages so that the ph normalizes and other things

but knowing this it can also be applied direct to paths to prevent growth

On 9/19/2015 9:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 9:18 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/19/2015 7:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:



As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier.



You knock me for stating a fact when you prove that fact by your
statement of "as the price goes up, the value starts to slide". SO
which is it, chip on my shoulder or, we'll call it, factual observation?

I didn't say it was overrated and a money grabbing device to make a CEO
wealthier. That is the chip.



You are correct, you want to pay top dollar, that's your choice. I have
paid top dollar for many products throughout the years. Some have
impressed me, many have not. I have accomplished many tasks using a
lower cost item (Harbor Freight debate comes to mind) for both hobby and
profession with no complaints. You want to call it a chip even with your
contradiction, so be it. I call it reality, because that's really what
it is.

No contradiction. My statement was the value/price equation, not the
negativity of a money grabbing overrated tool. It performs well, as
advertised. I buy if it has value to me and not a consideration of the
salary of the CEO


I don't base my buying decision on the overpaid salary of CEOs,
otherwise I'd do all my shopping at HF, it's just a fact to point out
when a tool brand is twice as much as it's competition which do the job
just as well, if not better.

Exactly. They rob nitrogen from the plants they are near.

Compost like leaves or with them and once the mold starts
to break it down it is ready.

One thing to know - Walnut shavings, sawdust is dangers to a hoofed
animal life. It dissolves the hoofs. Best in the trash or a home
made fire log.

Martin


On 9/21/2015 1:28 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/21/2015 10:52 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 13:31:04 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Quiet is relative.

my relatives are not quiet

I seldom hear the vac when using along with the tool that I am using,
be that a corded drill with the Kreg pocket hold jig, track saw, or
either sander. The power tool, not the vac, is the dominating sound
that you hear. In fact I cannot tell by sound, when using with

the only tool i have that is louder is my planer

the other annoying thing about my shop vac is the exhaust comes out of
canister handles and is directed downward

i had a bucket of saw dust and the shop vac was next to the bucket
instant dust cloud

fwiw i use the saw dust in garden mulch

Is that working for you, the mulch?

My sister was a gardener, kind'a serious at one time. She claimed that
the fresh saw dust used as mulch should compost for a while before use.
Apparently the fresh sawdust takes nutrients from the soil and other
plants if it goes on fresh and has not begun to decompose.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:56:16 -0400, Meanie
wrote:

On 9/19/2015 9:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 9:18 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 9/19/2015 7:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:



As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier.



You knock me for stating a fact when you prove that fact by your
statement of "as the price goes up, the value starts to slide". SO
which is it, chip on my shoulder or, we'll call it, factual observation?

I didn't say it was overrated and a money grabbing device to make a CEO
wealthier. That is the chip.



You are correct, you want to pay top dollar, that's your choice. I have
paid top dollar for many products throughout the years. Some have
impressed me, many have not. I have accomplished many tasks using a
lower cost item (Harbor Freight debate comes to mind) for both hobby and
profession with no complaints. You want to call it a chip even with your
contradiction, so be it. I call it reality, because that's really what
it is.

No contradiction. My statement was the value/price equation, not the
negativity of a money grabbing overrated tool. It performs well, as
advertised. I buy if it has value to me and not a consideration of the
salary of the CEO


I don't base my buying decision on the overpaid salary of CEOs,
otherwise I'd do all my shopping at HF, it's just a fact to point out
when a tool brand is twice as much as it's competition which do the job
just as well, if not better.

You obviously don't know the history of HF. ;-)

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:49:28 -0500
Martin Eastburn wrote:

One thing to know - Walnut shavings, sawdust is dangers to a hoofed
animal life. It dissolves the hoofs. Best in the trash or a home
made fire log.

did not know that about walnut

i would like to make fire logs from sawdust but i do not know how to
do that

On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 8:49:34 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Exactly. They rob nitrogen from the plants they are near.

Compost like leaves or with them and once the mold starts
to break it down it is ready.

One thing to know - Walnut shavings, sawdust is dangers to a hoofed
animal life. It dissolves the hoofs. Best in the trash or a home
made fire log.

Martin

After reading a lot about the trees that are members of the "juglans" family, I don't sand walnut without a mask, and toss ALL shavings in the garbage. To dangerous when in the form or sawdust or shavings.

For those not up on the subject, here's something to look at:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jugl...lans+poisonous

Robert

Electric Comet wrote in news:mtqel6$3c8$3
@dont-email.me:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:49:28 -0500
Martin Eastburn wrote:

One thing to know - Walnut shavings, sawdust is dangers to a hoofed
animal life. It dissolves the hoofs. Best in the trash or a home
made fire log.

did not know that about walnut

i would like to make fire logs from sawdust but i do not know how to
do that


I've venture a guess that it involves paraffin wax. Google will tell you
enough to get started, you can get the wax from a store like Hobby Lobby.
Look for a 40% off coupon before you pay. They can scan the smart phone
so there's no need to print it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 22 Sep 2015 06:16:56 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

I've venture a guess that it involves paraffin wax. Google will tell
you enough to get started, you can get the wax from a store like
Hobby Lobby. Look for a 40% off coupon before you pay. They can scan
the smart phone so there's no need to print it.

i was thinking along the lines of a hydraulic press

Electric Comet wrote:
On 22 Sep 2015 06:16:56 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

I've venture a guess that it involves paraffin wax. Google will tell
you enough to get started, you can get the wax from a store like
Hobby Lobby. Look for a 40% off coupon before you pay. They can scan
the smart phone so there's no need to print it.

i was thinking along the lines of a hydraulic press

That may be a part of the process, but I suspect Puckdropper is correct in
that you'll want parafin wax as a binder. Simply pressing it is probably
not going to give you the solid "log" you're looking for.

--

-Mike-

On 9/19/2015 5:13 PM, Meanie wrote:

Interesting enough, many many woodworkers have been creating and
performing within their hobbies and/or profession for many many years
prior to Festool. Somehow I believe they will still get along well if
they still don't have one.

blasphemy!!! Infidel!!! Also interesting is much of the greatest
woodworking was done not just before Festool, but before electricity.
I look at it like photography. You can have a $30,000 camera and gear
and take crap pictures, and a pocket camera and take great pictures.
Wood work is similar, in that it's the design more than the process. If
you have good design, building the thing matters not if it's festool, HF
or anything in between.

As with many other products, just another overrated money grabbing
device to help make the CEOs wealthier.

CEO's want money, nothing wrong with that, it's what keeps Festool,
Harbor Freight and everyone in between working.

I'm sure their tools have some advantages, but they aren't the Holy
Grail of the woodworking industry, IMO.

I agree 100% with this.

HF's stick is cheap, Festools stick is expensive. Normally, the best
bang for the buck is somewhere in between. Is there a difference
between a $100 ridged shop vac and a $700 Festool shop vac? I would
hope so, but do you really need those things?. If you are a contractor
with lots of people using your tools, you don't want to take out a loan
every time a drill or saw gets legs, or dropped 10 stories onto a side
walk. You also don't want something that breaks every few hours of
abuse, so you buy good quality at a reasonable price.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 9/21/2015 2:34 PM, Markem wrote:

My sister was a gardener, kind'a serious at one time. She claimed that
the fresh saw dust used as mulch should compost for a while before use.
Apparently the fresh sawdust takes nutrients from the soil and other
plants if it goes on fresh and has not begun to decompose.

It can raise the nitrogen levels of the soil, if you have ever burned
out a bit of lawn with to much fertilizer same idea. Composting with
extra green stuff lessens that problem.

I think it's the opposite. Fresh mulch uses up nitrogen as it
decomposes. I believe the reason you want greens included in mulch,
like green grass, is it's high in nitrogen. Sawdust, leaves and so on
has little nitrogen.

You shouldn't plant anything in compost until it is done decomposing.
You can use it as mulch around the top, but not in place of dirt in the
root area.

I use sawdust in my compost pile if I have too much. Takes a bit longer
to decompose than leaves, but the key is to mix it with green stuff.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 9/21/2015 11:52 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

the only tool i have that is louder is my planer

You have a cheap planer. You should get a spiral segmented job, then
your ears would only bleed from your shop vac. Then, spend $100 on a
Ridged Shop vac, and your ears will stop bleeding altogether. You
probably won't hear your cell phone ringing with both running, but that
I figure is a bonus...

You can get a spiral segmented job for under 2G's, up to 100's of G's.
If you want to impress the world, go for the 100G model, otherwise,
Grizzly sells one good enough, if not the best or most expensive ever made.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com