Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
I've been re-reading some of my old FWW magazines. An issue from 1994
told the readers about the existence of rec.woodworking. A quote from the article: "...things forbidden on rec.woodworking are off-topic messages (e.g. politics ..." --- ---- ----- Finished laughing yet? In the same issue was an article about building a gate-leg table. The author used a mortise and tenon jig which was just a piece of plywood about 6" x 12" with a 6" x 3" block across the 6" to serve as a fence. The jig was simply held on edge against the rip fence with the piece to be tenoned held in it vertically by the same hand. The other hand pushed the jig along the fence and past the blade. The only picture showing it in use showed a piece around a foot long being tenoned - reasonably safe as long as the worker doesn't slip, lose his grip, get vertigo, or even sneeze :-). But the author states that he used that jig for all the tenons in the table. The tenoned rails are 55" - almost 5 feet! Can you imagine standing one of those on end and shoving it past the blade with only one hand's pressure to keep it vertical and against the fence? My thought is that the author's nickname is either "Lucky" or "Stubby". But there were no comments about his technique in the next two issues. Am I missing something? |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 07/15/2015 01:45 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
.... snip But there were no comments about his technique in the next two issues. Am I missing something? If I'm envisioning this right, I'd expect he probably used a clamp to hold the leg in place rather than rely on his hand grip. Still kind of dicey, but probably safe enough if you took moderate bites... -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb "In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car." - Lawrence Summers |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 07/15/2015 4:45 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
.... author used a mortise and tenon jig which was just a piece of plywood about 6" x 12" with a 6" x 3" block across the 6" to serve as a fence. The jig was simply held on edge against the rip fence with the piece to be tenoned held in it vertically by the same hand. The other hand pushed the jig along the fence and past the blade. .... My thought is that the author's nickname is either "Lucky" or "Stubby". But there were no comments about his technique in the next two issues. Am I missing something? I've used very similar setups for 40+ yr w/ nary an accident. As another responder has said for the longer rails I'd almost certainly also use a clamp rather than just hold them there but I don't find the method risky at all--you're just cutting a fairly short (1" to 2" at most) straight cut thru a fairly small piece; a good saw and blade will hardly know it so there isn't any effort needed...an underpowered saw or dull blade is something else again, though. -- |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
Larry Blanchard wrote in
: I've been re-reading some of my old FWW magazines. An issue from 1994 told the readers about the existence of rec.woodworking. I've been re-reading American Woodworker from the 90's also. A ton of great stuff in those magazines, it's a shame they got sold and sold again, and lost quality each time. But the author states that he used that jig for all the tenons in the table. The tenoned rails are 55" - almost 5 feet! Can you imagine standing one of those on end and shoving it past the blade with only one hand's pressure to keep it vertical and against the fence? The idea of standing a 5 foot board on end, and working it across any power tool, boggles my mind. That's a cut to be made on the bandsaw, or with a hand saw. John |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 07/15/2015 6:32 PM, dpb wrote:
.... I've used very similar setups for 40+ yr w/ nary an accident. As another responder has said for the longer rails I'd almost certainly also use a clamp rather than just hold them there but I don't find the method risky at all--you're just cutting a fairly short (1" to 2" at most) straight cut thru a fairly small piece; a good saw and blade will hardly know it so there isn't any effort needed...an underpowered saw or dull blade is something else again, though. I will add that I modified the rig a little from that described by adding a hook so it actually slides over the fence, not just riding it against the fence... -- |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 8:54:51 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
I will add that I modified the rig a little from that described by adding a hook so it actually slides over the fence, not just riding it against the fence... Yep, fence-top guide, plus, I have a similar/wider ply jig that is also guided by a "runner" in the miter slot. ....*for short-lumber tenons. As John says, for long-lumber tenons, use a bandsaw or hand saw. Can never be too cautious, especially with "awkward" positioned pieces/cutting. Sonny |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 07/16/2015 8:56 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 8:54:51 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote: .... As John says, for long-lumber tenons, use a bandsaw or hand saw. Can never be too cautious, especially with "awkward" positioned pieces/cutting. But it _isn't_ awkward when in place, it's simply sticking up vertically for a single slice cut..."awkward" would be if it had the 'ell' of a secondary rail/stile attached to make a moment arm or the like but when it's all vertical, it's simple enough. I wouldn't with a 4x6 6-ft long (say) owing to weight but a simple rail/stile/leg/apron it's simple and quick and not unsafe. The alternatives are certainly ok and if you're uncomfortable with the setup then by all means use one of them instead... -- |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 20:54:49 -0500, dpb wrote:
I will add that I modified the rig a little from that described by adding a hook so it actually slides over the fence, not just riding it against the fence... That "little" makes it considerably safer. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 00:59:26 +0000, John McCoy wrote:
The idea of standing a 5 foot board on end, and working it across any power tool, boggles my mind. That's a cut to be made on the bandsaw, or with a hand saw. That was certainly my reaction. And I hope the article author had at least an 8' ceiling with nothing hanging down from it :-). |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 7/16/2015 12:29 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 00:59:26 +0000, John McCoy wrote: The idea of standing a 5 foot board on end, and working it across any power tool, boggles my mind. That's a cut to be made on the bandsaw, or with a hand saw. That was certainly my reaction. And I hope the article author had at least an 8' ceiling with nothing hanging down from it :-). In my inexpert opinion, we are sometimes seduced by the fact that even pretty stupid things usually result in no injury. "I know a guy who does that *all the time*". Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:53:59 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote: On 7/16/2015 12:29 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 00:59:26 +0000, John McCoy wrote: The idea of standing a 5 foot board on end, and working it across any power tool, boggles my mind. That's a cut to be made on the bandsaw, or with a hand saw. That was certainly my reaction. And I hope the article author had at least an 8' ceiling with nothing hanging down from it :-). In my inexpert opinion, we are sometimes seduced by the fact that even pretty stupid things usually result in no injury. "I know a guy who does that *all the time*". Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. Right but on the other hand, a 1 in 10M chance may be worth it over a 1 in 20M chance if your life is going to be made better (think cancer and drugs). The difference is a 50% increase in something bad happening but it's not a 50% chance of something bad happening, as is often implied by the MSM. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 07/16/2015 11:25 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 20:54:49 -0500, dpb wrote: I will add that I modified the rig a little from that described by adding a hook so it actually slides over the fence, not just riding it against the fence... That "little" makes it considerably safer. Granted. It's far more stable and since don't have to worry about keeping it against the fence much more reliably accurate. -- |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
Greg Guarino wrote in
: Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. John |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
|
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:44:04 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
There are safer ways to commute to work than on a motorcycle. Nonetheless many of us commute on motorcycles. Agreed. I did it for 20 years or more. But I stopped doing it for the 10 years I lived in the Los Angeles area :-). |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:19:59 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote: Greg Guarino wrote in : Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. Life is all about cost/benefit tradeoffs. The cost side doesn't tell the whole story. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:03:11 -0400, krw wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:19:59 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy wrote: Greg Guarino wrote in : Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. Life is all about cost/benefit tradeoffs. The cost side doesn't tell the whole story. On nice days I sometimes ride my bike to work It's only a couple kilometers. In the morning it's rush hour, so I use a trail half the way - at noon the traffic is light so I often use the road all the way. I see more car accidents than bike accidents - and if I get killed in a car accident I'm just as dead as on the bike - just die faster on the bike? Better chance of serious injury on the bike, but I accept the risk. Won't ride the bike in the rain or after dark - or on some of the more congested streets. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
|
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 06:10:50 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:03:11 -0400, krw wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:19:59 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy wrote: Greg Guarino wrote in : Human beings aren't always good at evaluating low probabilities. I try to remember that it's a bad idea to increase your chance of being hurt, even if the increase might be from 1 in 5000 to 1 in 100. This is especially important when the "1" is a lost finger. The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. Life is all about cost/benefit tradeoffs. The cost side doesn't tell the whole story. On nice days I sometimes ride my bike to work It's only a couple kilometers. In the morning it's rush hour, so I use a trail half the way - at noon the traffic is light so I often use the road all the way. I see more car accidents than bike accidents - and if I get killed in a car accident I'm just as dead as on the bike - just die faster on the bike? Better chance of serious injury on the bike, but I accept the risk. I see more cars than bicycles on the way to work, so it is not surprising that I see more "car accidents"--the "I see more car accidents" argument just falls flat. But I only go to work once a day, so it is not the accidents per person mile travelled or anything else that is relevant - only the chances of being involved in an accident on the way to or from work on the bike vs the truck. And while you're just as dead if you get killed, a car hitting a bicyclist doesn't even slow the car down, but if the bicyclist makes it to the emergency room he's lucky. All accidents do not result in fatalities you know. Which is why I stated " Better chance of serious injury on the bike". I gave up riding the Motorcycle because I demed the risk to be higher than my wife was willing to accept. Won't ride the bike in the rain or after dark - or on some of the more congested streets. |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
"J. Clarke" wrote in
: In article , says... The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. For certain values. There are safer ways to commute to work than on a motorcycle. Nonetheless many of us commute on motorcycles. That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The three ways listed to cut a tenon (table saw, bandsaw, hand saw) are essentially equivalent, the tenon comes out the same. Given that, it makes sense to pick the safer one. No-one who rides a motorcycle would say riding is equivalent to driving a car. John (rides a Yamaha R1) |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Blast from the Past
On 7/17/2015 3:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in : In article , says... The other thing to bear in mind is, if you know a safer way to do it, the probabilities are irrelevant. You do it the safer way. For certain values. There are safer ways to commute to work than on a motorcycle. Nonetheless many of us commute on motorcycles. That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The three ways listed to cut a tenon (table saw, bandsaw, hand saw) are essentially equivalent They aren't equivalent in terms of speed and precision. , the tenon comes out the same. Given that, it makes sense to pick the safer one. No-one who rides a motorcycle would say riding is equivalent to driving a car. John (rides a Yamaha R1) |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
A Blast From the Past | Woodworking | |||
A blast from the past! | Metalworking | |||
blast from the past | Woodworking Plans and Photos | |||
A blast from the past ! | Electronic Schematics | |||
A blast from the past - Ridgid 1975/76 Calendar | Woodworking |