https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I work
up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for someone
at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes before it's
built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a
sixteenth be adequate?

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which would also be used to
remove the cover.

As always, try to be gentle.

On 3/19/2015 2:35 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I work
up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for someone
at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes before it's
built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a
sixteenth be adequate?

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which would also be used to
remove the cover.

As always, try to be gentle.


Cool and I would not be too concerned with the lift out section, you are
using a dark wood to hide the loose fit shadow that would be created.
The wider that trim around the lid the less noticeable the gaps will be.

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:35:48 PM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out.

What might the 3 holes, along the center line, be for? Option: discard those 3 holes for... see below.

If it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a
sixteenth be adequate?

Another option? Why not make the center section a 4 piece unit, triangles converging at the center point, i.e., following the design of the perimeter? If this project is going to be an advancement of skills learned, why be so plain with the center section?

Another option? Since the center section is lined with a contrast trim, use a ply substrate and practice your veneer application.

If either option fails, you haven't lost much lumber, only time and/or learning from errors/mistakes.

Next, is this simply a stupid idea?

Never.

As always, try to be gentle.

You're in luck. Thursdays are the gentle days.

This is a good project proposal for making anyone think of different options.... but be careful with the Project Management: https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

Sonny

On 3/19/2015 4:44 PM, Sonny wrote:
What might the 3 holes, along the center line, be for?

Two functions: They are "finger-holes" to allow you to remove the cover.
And more importantly they are decoration.

Greg Guarino wrote in news:mef8d0$mg4$1@dont-
email.me:

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a
sixteenth be adequate?

You can find wood movement calculators on the web to give
you answers for pretty much any size and wood you want.

Off the top of my head, tho, I think oak shrinks about 1/8
per foot of width for a normal indoor humidity range. So
a 1/16 on either side should be ample for a 6" panel.

John

Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I
work up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for
someone at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes
before it's built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would
a sixteenth be adequate?

More than, IMO. In fact, if I were doing it, I'd make it gently snug; might
slightly bevel the insert edges, though, ala T&T flooring.

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which would also be used
to remove the cover.

If it starts flat and is well finished everywhere, it isn't likely to warp.
If yu wanted to be super safe, Sonny's veneer suggestion would be the way to
go.

As always, try to be gentle.

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a storage
area under it?


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 3/20/2015 6:01 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I
work up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for
someone at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes
before it's built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would
a sixteenth be adequate?

More than, IMO. In fact, if I were doing it, I'd make it gently snug; might
slightly bevel the insert edges, though, ala T&T flooring.

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which w'ould also be used
to remove the cover.

If it starts flat and is well finished everywhere, it isn't likely to warp.
If yu wanted to be super safe, Sonny's veneer suggestion would be the way to
go.

As always, try to be gentle.

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a storage
area under it?


Yes, For TV remotes, coasters, a few pens for the crossword puzzle etc.
It won't be the most practical way to accomplish that, and I haven't
definitely decided to do it, but I like that it would be a little odd.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 3/19/2015 2:35 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a
sixteenth be adequate?

Every woodworker interested in determining wood movement for planning
and design purposes needs to keep a copy of the following in the shop:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr190.pdf

As you will read, not only is the species of importance when selecting
woods based on their reaction to moisture/seasonal changes, but also the
cut off the log (quarter sawn, flat sawn, etc).

As a general rule, and for most species, if you want to reduce expansion
and contraction across your board's face, try to select quarter or rift
sawn stock for those areas/components which may be subject to
dimensional instability due to moisture/seasonal changes.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message ...

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a
storage
area under it?


Yes, For TV remotes, coasters, a few pens for the crossword puzzle etc. It
won't be the most practical way to accomplish that, and I haven't
definitely decided to do it, but I like that it would be a little odd.

Perhaps quarter sawn would be useful here... generally more stable. If done
carefully it could be sawn apart to make the holes and then glued back
together such that the glue lines disappear. This would require carefully
lining the growth rings up parallel with the long edges and then jointing
the edges to get the growth rings to line up like the saw cut was never
made. Not too difficult to pull off... just requires some thought and care.

On 3/20/2015 6:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/20/2015 6:01 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I
work up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for
someone at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes
before it's built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would
a sixteenth be adequate?

More than, IMO. In fact, if I were doing it, I'd make it gently snug;
might
slightly bevel the insert edges, though, ala T&T flooring.

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which w'ould also be used
to remove the cover.

If it starts flat and is well finished everywhere, it isn't likely to
warp.
If yu wanted to be super safe, Sonny's veneer suggestion would be the
way to
go.

As always, try to be gentle.

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a
storage
area under it?


Yes, For TV remotes, coasters, a few pens for the crossword puzzle etc.
It won't be the most practical way to accomplish that, and I haven't
definitely decided to do it, but I like that it would be a little odd.

Keep in mind what looks good on paper does not always work well in daily
use.
Things pile up on tables and you will have to clear the table to lift
the lid. You might want to consider a fancy top that dies not open and
add a drawer for the remotes.

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:09:20 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2015 6:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/20/2015 6:01 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I
work up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for
someone at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes
before it's built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If
it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to
allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would
a sixteenth be adequate?

More than, IMO. In fact, if I were doing it, I'd make it gently snug;
might
slightly bevel the insert edges, though, ala T&T flooring.

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece
likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for
this, as I like the decorative square holes, which w'ould also be used
to remove the cover.

If it starts flat and is well finished everywhere, it isn't likely to
warp.
If yu wanted to be super safe, Sonny's veneer suggestion would be the
way to
go.

As always, try to be gentle.

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a
storage
area under it?


Yes, For TV remotes, coasters, a few pens for the crossword puzzle etc.
It won't be the most practical way to accomplish that, and I haven't
definitely decided to do it, but I like that it would be a little odd.

Keep in mind what looks good on paper does not always work well in daily
use.
Things pile up on tables and you will have to clear the table to lift
the lid. You might want to consider a fancy top that dies not open and
add a drawer for the remotes.

I was going to say the same thing in a slightly different manner: Form does not follow function in this instance. In addition, things *will* fall through the holes, dust and crap will end up on top of that remote, etc. The picture shows pens inside, but it would be tough to use the top as a writing surface.

Pretty, but not necessarily practical. Of course, it really all depends on it's intended purpose.

On 3/20/2015 10:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Keep in mind what looks good on paper does not always work well in
daily
use. Things pile up on tables and you will have to clear the
table to lift the lid. You might want to consider a fancy top
that dies not open and add a drawer for the remotes.
I was going to say the same thing in a slightly different manner:
Form does not follow function in this instance. In addition,
things*will* fall through the holes, dust and crap will end up on
top of that remote, etc. The picture shows pens inside, but it would
be tough to use the top as a writing surface.

Yup, I've already thought of some of that stuff.

I'm not worried about things falling into the holes. They would be 1"
square. I have no pets or small children. Even a drinking glass would
span that hole without tilting, especially sitting on one of the
coasters that people will use under penalty of hanging by their thumbs
in the yard.

And these would be end tables that would sit a little lower than
the arms of the couch. They would not be for writing.

But yes, stuff would pile up on top. That much I'm certain of. Stuff
piles up on top of everything in my um, *compact* house. But
occasionally when people come over and we pretend that the house is
always as neat as it is on such evenings, people could ooh and aah at
the clever, pretty design.

Thanks for the advice. This is merely the tenth or so iteration of what
will doubtless become twenty or thirty before anything is built. Who
knows what shape it might take.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Pretty, but not necessarily practical. Of course, it really all
depends on it's intended purpose.

Yeah, let's not fault the guy for trying to be creative.
Sometimes you have to work thru the "didn't quite work
out like I intended" a few times to get a design that
both looks good and works good, and you have to try the
ideas that don't immediately look practical before you
see how to improve them.

For instance, if stuff falling thru the holes becomes
an issue, you might just close them off on the bottom
(add a thin layer of wood or something) - you'd keep
the decorative aspect, and they'd still work as a way
to grasp the lid.

Or perhaps instead of a closed box under the table top
it's an open shelf, which would make it easier to clean
(at the risk of stuff falling off, of course).

I think the aesthetics of the holes in the center matching
the 4 square tenons of the legs, and the square elements
in the lower stretchers, has a lot to be said for it.

John

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 11:41:24 AM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/20/2015 10:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Keep in mind what looks good on paper does not always work well in
daily
use. Things pile up on tables and you will have to clear the
table to lift the lid. You might want to consider a fancy top
that dies not open and add a drawer for the remotes.
I was going to say the same thing in a slightly different manner:
Form does not follow function in this instance. In addition,
things*will* fall through the holes, dust and crap will end up on
top of that remote, etc. The picture shows pens inside, but it would
be tough to use the top as a writing surface.

Yup, I've already thought of some of that stuff.

I'm not worried about things falling into the holes. They would be 1"
square. I have no pets or small children. Even a drinking glass would
span that hole without tilting, especially sitting on one of the
coasters that people will use under penalty of hanging by their thumbs
in the yard.

And these would be end tables that would sit a little lower than
the arms of the couch. They would not be for writing.

But yes, stuff would pile up on top. That much I'm certain of. Stuff
piles up on top of everything in my um, *compact* house. But
occasionally when people come over and we pretend that the house is
always as neat as it is on such evenings, people could ooh and aah at
the clever, pretty design.


Just keep in mind that what looks "neat" to you after a cleaning blitz is all relative. :-)

If you reduce the clutter by 90%, it looks great to you. However, your unknowing guests see the remaining 10% as 100%. No, showing them "before and after" pictures is not a good idea. ;-)

John McCoy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Pretty, but not necessarily practical. Of course, it really all
depends on it's intended purpose.

Yeah, let's not fault the guy for trying to be creative.
Sometimes you have to work thru the "didn't quite work
out like I intended" a few times to get a design that
both looks good and works good, and you have to try the
ideas that don't immediately look practical before you
see how to improve them.

For instance, if stuff falling thru the holes becomes
an issue, you might just close them off on the bottom
(add a thin layer of wood or something) - you'd keep
the decorative aspect, and they'd still work as a way
to grasp the lid.

Or perhaps instead of a closed box under the table top
it's an open shelf, which would make it easier to clean
(at the risk of stuff falling off, of course).

Good thought, no need to clear off the top to get at it. Especially if it
were a sliding shelf...not talkng about drawer slides, just a couple of
pieces on the inside along two sides to contain the shelf.

dadiOH