Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on the
wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws that
have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

On 3/19/2015 1:33 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on the
wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws that
have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

Ah. I see in the comments that he has clarified that he only glued the
breadboard ends in the middle. He seems to agree with another commenter
that the screws won't be a problem, as they are small and can bend. I'd
be curious to know what people here think about that.

On 3/19/2015 12:40 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/19/2015 1:33 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on the
wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws that
have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

Ah. I see in the comments that he has clarified that he only glued the
breadboard ends in the middle. He seems to agree with another commenter
that the screws won't be a problem, as they are small and can bend. I'd
be curious to know what people here think about that.


I don't do bread board ends because I think the exposed end grain looks
better than the ill fit between the ends of the bread board ends and the
front or back edge of the top during seasonal changes. The top is going
to expand or contract and the joint fit on the ends at the front are
going to be be off. It results in one of those appearances that you
tried to get the joint close, but missed.

Alternatively you can make a relief cut 1/8" and about the same depth so
that the mismatch is separated by that relief cut and not so noticeable
during seasonal changes.

As far as attaching, the top his way is simple but small screws may
break. I would laying the support pieces flat and pocket hole them into
the side apron. Drill 3/16" holes through to the bottom of the top and
use a washer head screw to attach. This give much more wiggle room for
expansion and contraction. I typically use my Domino to cut an expanded
slot rather than a 3/16" hole.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/19/2015 1:33 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on
the wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws
that have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

Ah. I see in the comments that he has clarified that he only glued the
breadboard ends in the middle. He seems to agree with another
commenter that the screws won't be a problem, as they are small and
can bend. I'd be curious to know what people here think about that.

The ends should be fine as he did it. I don't ever recall using one but
I've made LOTS of half laps which, of course, pit grain in one direction
against grain in another. Same for any other type of joint doing that,
including bridle and mortice/tenon. I've also inlaid smallish (2"x12")
pieces cross the grain of another. Never had a problem which doesn't mean
that the line along the joint stays chock-a-block, may crack slightly, may
not..

As far as the screws, I agree with Leon that sloppy holes and washers would
be better but as he did it should present no problems...at worst, the screws
would break which IMO is highly unlikely; more likely that the screw holes
get slightly enlrged.

dadiOH

Greg Guarino wrote in
:

Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on the
wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws
that have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

Considering the number of poor shop practices illustrated
in that video, I think poor design is the least of the
bad examples you could take from it.

Anyway, I think he said it was quartersawn oak, and it's
a small piece, so movement will be small. He'll probably
get away with it.

John

"John McCoy" wrote:

Considering the number of poor shop practices illustrated
in that video, I think poor design is the least of the
bad examples you could take from it.
-------------------------------------------
You said it first.

Must admit his sleds were creative, not necessarily functional.

Lew

On 3/19/2015 1:33 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on the
wrec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzBpeNR9CU

At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.
And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws that
have no provision to allow wood movement either.

I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?


I didn't view it, but just because you can does not make you an expert.
And there are lots teaching bad things out there.

There are some excellent videos though of some amazing craftsman.
If you are looking for a good source, look to Paul Sellers, as he would
probably fit with your limited space and equipment.
He really is a good teacher. Not the only way to do things, but he is
fundamentally sound.



--
Jeff

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:550b5972$0$41641
:


"John McCoy" wrote:

Considering the number of poor shop practices illustrated
in that video, I think poor design is the least of the
bad examples you could take from it.
-------------------------------------------
You said it first.

Must admit his sleds were creative, not necessarily functional.

Yeah, his time would have been better spent putting
a blade guard on the sled rather than a fancy fence.

John

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:33:58 -0400
Greg Guarino wrote:

Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on
the wrec.

i have seen bad advice on youtube so not a surprise

still need to look at the video

I like turning videos and one piece of advice that was good but
funny was that if you're turning at over 1,000 rpm the piece
will go vertical but under and it just falls to the floor
if it comes off the lathe

not bad avice but really better to say make sure it doesn't or can't
come off the lathe

knock on wood, not been hit yet with lathe projectiles

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:33:58 -0400
Greg Guarino wrote:

Seems like it, according to what I've read elsewhere, including on
the wrec.

i watched it now
it depends on who the piece is for doesn't it
it's not going in a museum soon so don't let pursuit of perfection
get in the way of plenty good enough


At 8:30 or so he glues his breadboard ends rigidly onto his tabletop.

I didn't like the breadboard ends and the tenon but I don't think
there's any rule written in stone about doing what he did

it's a design decision that he likes

And at about 9:30 he attaches his tabletop to the frame with screws
that have no provision to allow wood movement either.

no big deal, it's just an end table, you'll be the only one that ever
notices if there's a problem, ok your woodworking friends will notice


I have no personal experience with wood movement, but these are both
no-nos, right?

no idea if they are no-nos, not even sure what that means, maybe you
are thinking fine furniture and then they are no-nos

a nice table done simply and there're lots of other ways to do an
end table

I might have not done a tenon and just used a narrower end and glued
it on and had less overhang of the table top
then the rails could provide some stiffness for the ends

he made a nice table

On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 19:37:02 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

If you are looking for a good source, look to Paul Sellers, as he
would probably fit with your limited space and equipment.
He really is a good teacher. Not the only way to do things, but he is
fundamentally sound.

Interesting videos and techniques
I like the oiled rag in the tin can
simple and cheap and effective
in 1st wall clock video I also like his sketch book that contains
historic record with drawings and notes

and watching him work I wonder for that type of project how much
time would be saved if he used power tools

I'd guess no time would be save using power tools due to tool
setup
I think it'd be a wash and maybe advantage to hand tools

On 3/26/2015 1:12 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 19:37:02 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

If you are looking for a good source, look to Paul Sellers, as he
would probably fit with your limited space and equipment.
He really is a good teacher. Not the only way to do things, but he is
fundamentally sound.

Interesting videos and techniques
I like the oiled rag in the tin can
simple and cheap and effective
in 1st wall clock video I also like his sketch book that contains
historic record with drawings and notes

and watching him work I wonder for that type of project how much
time would be saved if he used power tools

I'd guess no time would be save using power tools due to tool
setup
I think it'd be a wash and maybe advantage to hand tools



There's a nice thing about using hand tools.
Learn to use them and you are not limited.
There are many things hand tools can do quicker than power.. (setup).

There are times when I work at night and the wife is asleep.
I'll use hand tools to avoid the noise.

It's kind of nice.

When dealing with very small parts I'll do it by hand.

Now if I can just get motivated...


--
Jeff

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 20:21:32 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

There's a nice thing about using hand tools.
Learn to use them and you are not limited.
There are many things hand tools can do quicker than power.. (setup).

Yup
watch his video at a fair cutting a dovetail joint in minutes flat

There are times when I work at night and the wife is asleep.
I'll use hand tools to avoid the noise.

Yes the thought of how quiet is good, many times when I'd like to
tinker quietly I am limited

but I have very few of those tools that he has
but will be getting some soon

Now if I can just get motivated...

forget about what's it for or where it's going just do it
because you enjoy it

this is what I remind myself