A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 and runnier
than the last one. I wrote Titebond and they said the color was due to a
different filler and the lower viscosity was probably due to it having
been frozen in transit.

They sent me another bottle so I could try one that hadn't been exposed
to cold weather. If there was a difference in the viscosity I couldn't
detect it. I guess the new stuff is just a little thinner - maybe due to
the new finer filler.

Still works fine - just have to be a little more aware of possible runs.

I have a habit of finishing first, dry clamping, applying paste wax along
the glue line, un-clamping, applying glue, and re-clamping. So runs are
not difficult to remove. But if you glue up before finishing, you might
want to use T2 instead of T3.

On 6/30/2014 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 and runnier
than the last one. I wrote Titebond and they said the color was due to a
different filler and the lower viscosity was probably due to it having
been frozen in transit.

They sent me another bottle so I could try one that hadn't been exposed
to cold weather. If there was a difference in the viscosity I couldn't
detect it. I guess the new stuff is just a little thinner - maybe due to
the new finer filler.

Still works fine - just have to be a little more aware of possible runs.

I have a habit of finishing first, dry clamping, applying paste wax along
the glue line, un-clamping, applying glue, and re-clamping. So runs are
not difficult to remove. But if you glue up before finishing, you might
want to use T2 instead of T3.



I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too. This is the poop
on all of the "extend" and TBIII glue.

I found that TB extend was real runny until I got to the part that was
not mixed. I advise you to do as instructed below to insure you are
getting the extended open time and that you can use the whole bottle.
Once you use the thin stuff and get into the thick stuff on bottom the
glue is worthless, like squeezing out frosting.

I don't really care for mixing before each use myself but below is what
is advised. My glue is non usable again from a bottle that is only 10
months old, that's 10 months from production date.


What he said,,

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.



No changes to the formulations for any of the Titebond Wood Glues have
been made. New labeling is to better identify difference between
product offerings. You mention three different products, Titebond III,
Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend. I will send a sample bottle of
one of these adhesives to make up for your loss of product mentioned
below, but I cannot change the fact that these products will settle over
time and mixing is necessary to allow for longer useful life of the
adhesive for the whole container.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.

On 7/1/2014 6:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.


Keep the bottle in the bathroom. Brush teeth, flip bottle.

On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.


I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed.
Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other.
Sorta like flipping ends with a rattle paint can, the ball moves from
one end to the other but does not mix the paint.

I will probably straighten a wire coat hanger and put a few slight bends
in it and put one end in my drill.

Unfortunately once you get to the blob and have poured/used all the thin
glue it is too late. You apparently should stir the first time you open
the bottle and every day you use it.

Ultimately I think TiteBond should mention this on the bottle label.

On 7/1/2014 5:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/1/2014 6:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it
right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know,
but seemingly less of
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.


Keep the bottle in the bathroom. Brush teeth, flip bottle.

But then, having somehow aged overnight, I have to work out some way of
keeping the toothbrush only for the toothpaste.
grumble,
jo4hn

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On 7/1/2014 6:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood
Glues all contain large particles to allow for longer open and
assembly times. These products can settle and it is
recommended to mix well before each use. Mixing must be done
mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or shaking the
bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles
will be lost and use of the un-extended versions may be better
for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help --
store it right side up this month, upside down next month, and
so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.


Keep the bottle in the bathroom. Brush teeth, flip bottle.

You brush your teeth only once a month? g

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:3smdnXoPg-
:

On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.

I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed.
Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other.

I think that depends on the rate at which the large particles settle, and the frequency with
which the bottle is inverted -- perhaps Titebond could be persuaded to conduct some
testing.

Certainly if you don't invert it often enough, you'll wind up just moving the blob from one end
to the other. There must be some inversion frequency, though, that prevents the blob from
forming in the first place. My guess is that daily is more often than necessary but monthly
might not be often enough. The only way to determine this is through experiment.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 13:41:06 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:3smdnXoPg-
:

On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.

I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed.
Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other.

I think that depends on the rate at which the large particles settle, and the frequency with
which the bottle is inverted -- perhaps Titebond could be persuaded to conduct some
testing.

Certainly if you don't invert it often enough, you'll wind up just moving the blob from one end
to the other. There must be some inversion frequency, though, that prevents the blob from
forming in the first place. My guess is that daily is more often than necessary but monthly
might not be often enough. The only way to determine this is through experiment.

I guess there is always gorilla glue.
--
Mr.E

On 7/1/2014 8:41 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:3smdnXoPg-
:

On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.

I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed.
Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other.

I think that depends on the rate at which the large particles settle, and the frequency with
which the bottle is inverted -- perhaps Titebond could be persuaded to conduct some
testing.

This might be true if you had the bottle shipped factory direct to you.
Most of the new stuff on the shelves already is 4~6 months old and the
blob is already there when you get it. This is evident by several of us
thinking that the extend glues seem runny to begin with.





Certainly if you don't invert it often enough, you'll wind up just moving the blob from one end
to the other. There must be some inversion frequency, though, that prevents the blob from
forming in the first place. My guess is that daily is more often than necessary but monthly
might not be often enough. The only way to determine this is through experiment.


Consider this, I used to buy TBII Extend by the gallon. I was
transferring this 16oz at a time to a smaller container. Using a spout
from a smaller bottle to direct flow from the larger bottle required
tipping the bottle almost upside down. That was not enough by a long
shot. I did this about every 6~10 weeks. I have about 30% of the last
gallon that is unusable now.

BUT monthly "might" work. However the rep specifically said that
shaking and the like was not going to be adequate, I would think that
flipping end for end might be similar to a less than desirable shake.
;~) And it was advised to mix "every time you use the product".

On 7/1/2014 9:25 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 13:41:06 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:3smdnXoPg-
:

On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month,
upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less
a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.

I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed.
Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other.

I think that depends on the rate at which the large particles settle, and the frequency with
which the bottle is inverted -- perhaps Titebond could be persuaded to conduct some
testing.

Certainly if you don't invert it often enough, you'll wind up just moving the blob from one end
to the other. There must be some inversion frequency, though, that prevents the blob from
forming in the first place. My guess is that daily is more often than necessary but monthly
might not be often enough. The only way to determine this is through experiment.

I guess there is always gorilla glue.



The problem with Gorilla glue, the similar white kind, is that it does
not have an extended open time like the TB Extend products. FWIW the
white Gorilla glue is excellent and compares favorably to TB, TBII, and
TB III products. Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:52:45 -0500, Leon wrote:

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use.

Strange that they didn't mention any such thing to me. And the bottle
says only "if thickened, shake vigorously ...". Nothing about it being
thin. And your contact didn't mention freezing.

Also, as I'm a hobby woodworker with other hobbies, a bottle of glue
sometimes lasts me for 2-3 years. I've never found any settling or
clumping at the bottom. And they told you there'd been no change where
my contact said they'd changed the filler.

I'm beginning to suspect they're pulling these responses out of a hat.

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 00:25:53 +0000, Larry Blanchard wrote:

A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 a

Oops - obviously the subject line should have said III, not II. Durn
keyboard!

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/1/2014 6:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too.

[...]

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before
each use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as
tapping or shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high
viscosity wood glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger
particles will be lost and use of the un-extended versions may be
better for your use.

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it
right side up this month, upside down next month, and so on.
Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of a nuisance than
mixing it with a stick.


Keep the bottle in the bathroom. Brush teeth, flip bottle.

But don't screw up...

--

-Mike-

On 7/1/2014 11:10 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 00:25:53 +0000, Larry Blanchard wrote:

A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 a

Oops - obviously the subject line should have said III, not II. Durn
keyboard!



Not a problem as TB3 had an extended open time too and shares the same
problems if you do not keep it thoroughly mixed.

On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to **** with stirring
a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.

If this is not the bull**** that it sounds like (vigorous shaking
before use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time
with TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this morning's
work will be the last.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/1/2014 11:08 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:52:45 -0500, Leon wrote:

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use.

Strange that they didn't mention any such thing to me. And the bottle
says only "if thickened, shake vigorously ...". Nothing about it being
thin. And your contact didn't mention freezing.

Also, as I'm a hobby woodworker with other hobbies, a bottle of glue
sometimes lasts me for 2-3 years. I've never found any settling or
clumping at the bottom. And they told you there'd been no change where
my contact said they'd changed the filler.

I'm beginning to suspect they're pulling these responses out of a hat.



I was not having issues with the extend and or TB3 until the last year
or so. I typically will go through 2~2 quarts in a 12 month period.
Swingman and I both noticed the extend being darn near milk like right
out of the bottle. The glue works but apparently had it been thicker,
read that as properly mixed, we would have had longer open times.

I don't think your glue being frozen is what caused it to be thin so
much as it sitting on the shelf and the particles used for extending the
open time settling to the bottom. I suspect that the glue in the bottom
of your bottle is very thick by comparison to that at the top.

Then again if there was no formula change perhaps the handling from
production to the store shelf is causing an issue, especially since it
was quite cold this winter.


Apparently that has no ill effect other than you will not have the
longer open time and will not be able to use the whole bottle as it
thickens.

Do you recall who you were getting this information from. My guy at TB
was Bob Behnke.

On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to **** with stirring
a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.

If this is not the bull**** that it sounds like (vigorous shaking before
use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time with
TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this morning's work
will be the last.

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.

For roughly half the price why not just the regular Extend?

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=d7c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95

--

On 7/1/2014 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.


TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in occasionally
wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks, and repeated
spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to use
materials in those type environments that make for a more robust end
product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no matter how
slight.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/1/2014 1:19 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/1/2014 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.


TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in occasionally
wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks, and repeated
spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to use
materials in those type environments that make for a more robust end
product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no matter how
slight.

Like Larry, that should be III

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/1/2014 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:
On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to **** with stirring
a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.

If this is not the bull**** that it sounds like (vigorous shaking before
use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time with
TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this morning's work
will be the last.

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.

For roughly half the price why not just the regular Extend?

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=d7c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95


--


You do have a point, half the price for the same issue. LOL

On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to **** with stirring
a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.

If this is not the bull**** that it sounds like (vigorous shaking before
use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time with
TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this morning's work
will be the last.

That is what I am thinking and really a new bottle of glue for each
project is not that big of a deal but hell you can't find any thing on
the shelf that is less that 4~6 months old to begin with. It needs to
be stirred right away.

dpb wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must
have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in
occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks,
and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to
use materials in those type environments that make for a more robust
end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no
matter how slight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Just one of the reasons epoxy exists.

It's waterproof and with a slow hardener has a 25 minute pot life at
77F (25C).


Lew

On 7/1/2014 1:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
dpb wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must
have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in
occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks,
and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to
use materials in those type environments that make for a more robust
end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no
matter how slight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Just one of the reasons epoxy exists.

It's waterproof and with a slow hardener has a 25 minute pot life at
77F (25C).


Lew


And unbelievable more expensive. And for that matter TB III has up to
a 25 minute assembly time and you have mix epoxt

AND if needed TB III and the like glues can be reversed.

No thank you.

On 7/1/2014 2:56 PM, Baxter wrote:
dpb wrote in :

On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not
exhibit this symptom.

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to **** with
stirring a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.

If this is not the bull**** that it sounds like (vigorous shaking
before use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time
with TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this
morning's work will be the last.

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must
have the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version
and that?) or the water resistance.

For roughly half the price why not just the regular Extend?

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx...00-99ed-79f8a7
5a2e95

If you need extended set-up times, why not go with Hide glue?

http://tinyurl.com/kew843y




Because I need no longer setup time than TB extend and or TB# offers.
That would be just one more glue to have to keep on hand. And FWIW I
have had hide glue go bad too, and it is kinda messy, and it dries
dark... ;~(

dpb wrote:


I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really
must
have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version
and
that?) or the water resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market.
Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in
occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where
leaks,
and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to
use materials in those type environments that make for a more
robust
end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no
matter how slight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Just one of the reasons epoxy exists.

It's waterproof and with a slow hardener has a 25 minute pot life
at
77F (25C).
--------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

And unbelievable more expensive. And for that matter TB III has up
to a 25 minute assembly time and you have mix epoxt

AND if needed TB III and the like glues can be reversed.

No thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------
Words from the bard of Festool, "And unbelievable more expensive".

Guess "expensive" is a relative term; however, it helps to know how to
buy.

Reverse a glue job?

Really?

Guess it takes all types.

BTW, it's possible to break an epoxy joint as long as it is still
"green".

Lew

On 6/30/2014 11:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/30/2014 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 and runnier
than the last one. I wrote Titebond and they said the color was due to a
different filler and the lower viscosity was probably due to it having
been frozen in transit.

They sent me another bottle so I could try one that hadn't been exposed
to cold weather. If there was a difference in the viscosity I couldn't
detect it. I guess the new stuff is just a little thinner - maybe due to
the new finer filler.

Still works fine - just have to be a little more aware of possible runs.

I have a habit of finishing first, dry clamping, applying paste wax along
the glue line, un-clamping, applying glue, and re-clamping. So runs are
not difficult to remove. But if you glue up before finishing, you might
want to use T2 instead of T3.



I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too. This is the poop
on all of the "extend" and TBIII glue.

I found that TB extend was real runny until I got to the part that was
not mixed. I advise you to do as instructed below to insure you are
getting the extended open time and that you can use the whole bottle.
Once you use the thin stuff and get into the thick stuff on bottom the
glue is worthless, like squeezing out frosting.

I don't really care for mixing before each use myself but below is what
is advised. My glue is non usable again from a bottle that is only 10
months old, that's 10 months from production date.


What he said,,

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.


This is eye opening to myself.

I used to use a lot of glue and bought the Elmers by the gallon. Never
any problems.

Elmers seemed a little gummy and soft when sanded so I switched to
Titebond. I now have dead tubes of various Titebond flavors and figured
that it was something I was doing wrong.

What, I had not a clue until now.

How you stir a small bottle I can not imagine doing without creating a
mess.

No changes to the formulations for any of the Titebond Wood Glues have
been made. New labeling is to better identify difference between
product offerings. You mention three different products, Titebond III,
Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend. I will send a sample bottle of
one of these adhesives to make up for your loss of product mentioned
below, but I cannot change the fact that these products will settle over
time and mixing is necessary to allow for longer useful life of the
adhesive for the whole container.




--
pentapus

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
dpb wrote:


I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really
must
have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version
and
that?) or the water resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market.
Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in
occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where
leaks,
and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to
use materials in those type environments that make for a more
robust
end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no
matter how slight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Just one of the reasons epoxy exists.

It's waterproof and with a slow hardener has a 25 minute pot life
at
77F (25C).
--------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

And unbelievable more expensive. And for that matter TB III has up
to a 25 minute assembly time and you have mix epoxt

AND if needed TB III and the like glues can be reversed.

No thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------
Words from the bard of Festool, "And unbelievable more expensive".

The big difference is that my Festool tools have paid for themselves time
and again in time savings. I see no advantage to spending more for a glue
that has no advantages for this type application.




Guess "expensive" is a relative term; however, it helps to know how to
buy.

Reverse a glue job?

Really?

Have you never repaired anything or had to make an adjustment 20 minutes
into a glue up that required partial disassembly?




Guess it takes all types.

BTW, it's possible to break an epoxy joint as long as it is still
"green".


Lew

On 7/1/2014 2:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
dpb wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must
have
the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and
that?) or the water resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated
glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in
occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks,
and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.

Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to
use materials in those type environments that make for a more robust
end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no
matter how slight.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Just one of the reasons epoxy exists.

It's waterproof and with a slow hardener has a 25 minute pot life at
77F (25C).


Lew



I've been switching back and forth to TB II and Elmers. Elmers for the
longer glue up time.

I figure if Frank Klauz was using it, it had to be good enough.

BTW don't throw out that more viscous TB, I have been thinning TB for
some applications, and it's great. Not as strong, but it's use is
intended when the less viscous won't do.

--
Jeff

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 12:40:35 -0500, Leon wrote:

Do you recall who you were getting this information from. My guy at TB
was Bob Behnke.

My contact was:

Brianna Orians
Technical Service Specialist
Franklin International

MY point is that your contact said no changes, mine said a different
filler. Your contact says thin from settling, mine says thin from
freezing.

And the bottle says *nothing* about thinning, only about thickening :-).

The inmates are running the asylum?

On 7/2/2014 4:32 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

The inmates are running the asylum?

Yep. Starting from the highest levels of government, all the way down to
the "manager" at your local grocery.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

pentapus wrote:
On 6/30/2014 11:52 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/30/2014 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 and runnier
than the last one. I wrote Titebond and they said the color was due to a
different filler and the lower viscosity was probably due to it having
been frozen in transit.

They sent me another bottle so I could try one that hadn't been exposed
to cold weather. If there was a difference in the viscosity I couldn't
detect it. I guess the new stuff is just a little thinner - maybe due to
the new finer filler.

Still works fine - just have to be a little more aware of possible runs.

I have a habit of finishing first, dry clamping, applying paste wax along
the glue line, un-clamping, applying glue, and re-clamping. So runs are
not difficult to remove. But if you glue up before finishing, you might
want to use T2 instead of T3.



I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too. This is the poop
on all of the "extend" and TBIII glue.

I found that TB extend was real runny until I got to the part that was
not mixed. I advise you to do as instructed below to insure you are
getting the extended open time and that you can use the whole bottle.
Once you use the thin stuff and get into the thick stuff on bottom the
glue is worthless, like squeezing out frosting.

I don't really care for mixing before each use myself but below is what
is advised. My glue is non usable again from a bottle that is only 10
months old, that's 10 months from production date.


What he said,,

Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all
contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times.
These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each
use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or
shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood
glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost
and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.


This is eye opening to myself.

I used to use a lot of glue and bought the Elmers by the gallon. Never any problems.

Keep in mind that we are only talking about TB products that feature an
extended open time. TB 3 and TB2 Extend are the only ones with this issue
that I have had problems with. TB advised that any of their blues are
iffy after 2 years from production date. If your regular TB and TB 2
glues thicken before their 2 year life try banging the bottle against a
solid object. Strangely enough this action will return the thick glob to a
liquid almost immediately. Remember this only works on the regular open
time glues.


Elmers seemed a little gummy and soft when sanded so I switched to
Titebond. I now have dead tubes of various Titebond flavors and figured
that it was something I was doing wrong.

What, I had not a clue until now.

How you stir a small bottle I can not imagine doing without creating a mess.

No changes to the formulations for any of the Titebond Wood Glues have
been made. New labeling is to better identify difference between
product offerings. You mention three different products, Titebond III,
Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend. I will send a sample bottle of
one of these adhesives to make up for your loss of product mentioned
below, but I cannot change the fact that these products will settle over
time and mixing is necessary to allow for longer useful life of the
adhesive for the whole container.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 12:40:35 -0500, Leon wrote:

Do you recall who you were getting this information from. My guy at TB
was Bob Behnke.

My contact was:

Brianna Orians
Technical Service Specialist
Franklin International

MY point is that your contact said no changes, mine said a different
filler. Your contact says thin from settling, mine says thin from
freezing.

And the bottle says *nothing* about thinning, only about thickening :-).

The inmates are running the asylum?

Yeah I suspected a story was sent to each of us to explain the reason for
the thinning, right or wrong.
Yesterday I received a quart bottle of TB3 from TB. It was packed in the
box upside down. I immediately noticed that the contents at the bottom go
the bottle was discolored in one location, lighter colored. I highly
suspect that the discolored spot was a glob of the stuff that needs to be
mixed back in, as recommended, before each use. The date code indicated
that the bottle was filled about 10 weeks ago. So even shipped direct from
the manufacturer one can expect to have to mix before use.

My conclusion is that TB glues with extended open times are good glues when
properly mixed with each use. These glues, after some time of sitting on a
shelf and no remixing of the contents, will most probably NOT perform,
during assembly, as expected. I suspect that the longer the bottle has sat
the less of an open time one can expect.

For me, is TB3 worth the extra expense and so much more trouble to observe
the benefits? NO
Same question for the less expensive extended open time products from TB?
Maybe

On 7/4/2014 8:16 AM, Leon wrote:


Keep in mind that we are only talking about TB products that feature an
extended open time. TB 3 and TB2 Extend are the only ones with this issue
that I have had problems with. TB advised that any of their blues are
iffy after 2 years from production date.

Your typo could inspire a song.

Buddy Guy singing "I Got The Glues Blues".

Howlin Wolf "Your Glues Give Me the Blues"

Muddy Waters "Titebond Blues"

Country Western twist "My horse is glue and I'm blue"

On 7/4/2014 9:50 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/4/2014 8:16 AM, Leon wrote:


Keep in mind that we are only talking about TB products that feature an
extended open time. TB 3 and TB2 Extend are the only ones with this
issue
that I have had problems with. TB advised that any of their blues are
iffy after 2 years from production date.

Your typo could inspire a song.

Buddy Guy singing "I Got The Glues Blues".

Howlin Wolf "Your Glues Give Me the Blues"

Muddy Waters "Titebond Blues"

Country Western twist "My horse is glue and I'm blue"


;~)