.... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

.... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?

And lastly: I think I've settled on a design for my next project. I plan
to build two of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57639547178715


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On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

First, you made it into a Group/Component, and were in Edit mode when
using the push/pull tool, right? Sorry, had to ask.

Just followed your steps and had no trouble pushing the square end to
the inside end point of the miter.

The only thing I can see causing this problem, other than a graphics
subsystem incompatibility, is if the "square end" was not square to the
axis, in the same plane?

Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?

Try holding the mouse down and sliding the arc tool cursor along either
of the edges until the "tangent to edge" dialogue appears.

Snapping to a point is essential in a 3d modeling environment and the
computer and its graphics subsystem must be compliant with the software
for it to work properly.

I'm not suggesting that yours is not compliant, just that these type
issues depend more upon the computer, the complexity of the model,
whether you are using more than one monitor (graphics card and whether
it is using on-board, cpu, or both) and whether the system is just
particularly busy at that point.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.


I'm mot totally sure what you are having a problem with. What specific
step are you having a problem with in creating what?

Assuming you have one piece that is correctly made copy it for all of
the other pieces. If they need to be different lengths, simply select
the 45'ed end, start the selection box in the upper left corner and drag
to the right bottom to capture only the 45'ed section and select "m" for
move and drag the end in which ever direction you need to move to
lengthen or shorten it.





Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?


Zoom in more, your resolution may be too small for the program/operation
to snap properly. And move slowly while forming the bulge.





And lastly: I think I've settled on a design for my next project. I plan
to build two of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57639547178715


A couple of things, the design looks fine but be sure to use plywood for
the shelves, and especially the top

Build both at the same time to save having to set up twice as many times.









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On 5/11/2014 10:28 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.


I'm mot totally sure what you are having a problem with. What specific
step are you having a problem with in creating what?

Assuming you have one piece that is correctly made copy it for all of
the other pieces. If they need to be different lengths, simply select
the 45'ed end, start the selection box in the upper left corner and drag
to the right bottom to capture only the 45'ed section and select "m" for
move and drag the end in which ever direction you need to move to
lengthen or shorten it.


Actually you only have to select only the 45'ed mitered face and move
it, pushing or pulling will make it move in the direction that it is facing.

On 5/11/2014 11:14 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

First, you made it into a Group/Component, and were in Edit mode when
using the push/pull tool, right? Sorry, had to ask.

Yup. Just tried it again.

Just followed your steps and had no trouble pushing the square end to
the inside end point of the miter.

The only thing I can see causing this problem, other than a graphics
subsystem incompatibility, is if the "square end" was not square to the
axis, in the same plane?

Here's what I did:

I made a 1x3 and rounded off one edge with a continuous arc to make it
simpler for the test.

I made a component out of that and went into edit mode. I added a "tag"
rectangle 1.5" from the corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644623502875

Then I rotated the rectangle 135 degrees about the edge that was
attached to the piece:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/

I used "intersect faces" and then erased the parts I didn't need:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/

Then I turned the piece around to the other end:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/

.... and attempted to "push" the end face. It would not allow me to do
it. I could however "pull" it out to make it longer.

More to the point, leaving aside this particular issue, is this really
the best way to make a mitered rounded-over corner?


Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?

Try holding the mouse down and sliding the arc tool cursor along either
of the edges until the "tangent to edge" dialogue appears.

Snapping to a point is essential in a 3d modeling environment and the
computer and its graphics subsystem must be compliant with the software
for it to work properly.

I'm not suggesting that yours is not compliant, just that these type
issues depend more upon the computer, the complexity of the model,
whether you are using more than one monitor (graphics card and whether
it is using on-board, cpu, or both) and whether the system is just
particularly busy at that point.



---
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On 5/11/2014 11:28 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.


I'm mot totally sure what you are having a problem with. What specific
step are you having a problem with in creating what?

Assuming you have one piece that is correctly made copy it for all of
the other pieces. If they need to be different lengths, simply select
the 45'ed end, start the selection box in the upper left corner and drag
to the right bottom to capture only the 45'ed section and select "m" for
move and drag the end in which ever direction you need to move to
lengthen or shorten it.

Now that did work. Thanks. It still seems cumbersome though.



Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?


Zoom in more, your resolution may be too small for the program/operation
to snap properly. And move slowly while forming the bulge.

I'll try that.


And lastly: I think I've settled on a design for my next project. I plan
to build two of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57639547178715



A couple of things, the design looks fine but be sure to use plywood for
the shelves, and especially the top

That's the plan.

Build both at the same time to save having to set up twice as many times.

Definitely. I've already built a long table/zero-clearance jig for the
miter saw, long enough to clamp a stop to it to cut the 16 uprights to
the same length, etc.


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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

philosophical rant/ramblings

So, we preach using components and groups of edges and faces, _modeled
to coincide precisely with ALL the parts in a woodworking project_ .

That is an absolutely imperative concept to initially get your mind
around using 3D modeling software both effectively, and efficiently.

IOW, build the project in the software, just as you would in the shop,
before you go into the shop.

However, there are some things that simply don't need to modeled
precisely as individual parts.

The idea behind modeling is to be able to quantify the "dimensions" of
the parts so you can transfer those dimensions to the material in the shop.

When it comes to doing "round over" profiles for trim and frames, as in
your above, I routinely use a simple profile "face", and the "Follow Me"
tool, to wrap the "trim" where I want it. (I might add some joint lines,
etc., but that would be for visual, and perhaps measuring purposes)

This is much easier and more efficient than trying to make four mitered
parts to frame something, and you can still take the appropriate
measurements in SketchUp to get the proper dimensions for your mitered
parts.

IOW, I don't have to make a perfectly realistic model of a "frame and
panel" to get the measurements to make it in the shop ... I already know
how to make a frame and panel, I just need the project measurements.

In short, often all that is needed is a single entity which is a
visually adequate representation of a frame and panel to take
measurements from, without the need to model it in precise detail.

Save yourself some time ... making sawdust is where the rubber meets the
road.

/philosophical rant/ramblings

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Here's what I did:

I made a 1x3 and rounded off one edge with a continuous arc to make it
simpler for the test.

I made a component out of that and went into edit mode. I added a "tag"
rectangle 1.5" from the corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644623502875


Then I rotated the rectangle 135 degrees about the edge that was
attached to the piece:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


I used "intersect faces" and then erased the parts I didn't need:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


Then I turned the piece around to the other end:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


... and attempted to "push" the end face. It would not allow me to do
it. I could however "pull" it out to make it longer.

Just did exactly what you outlined above and could not reproduce your
inability to push the square end toward the angled cut.

We all agree there is more than one way to skin a cat, but that does not
solve your issue, so let's focus this sub thread, not as another way to
accomplish this, but why your steps outlined above does not work on your
system?

If you don't mind, email me a model that doesn't work as you describe
and let me take a look at it.

Thanks ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/11/2014 11:14 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

First, you made it into a Group/Component, and were in Edit mode when
using the push/pull tool, right? Sorry, had to ask.

Yup. Just tried it again.

Just followed your steps and had no trouble pushing the square end to
the inside end point of the miter.

The only thing I can see causing this problem, other than a graphics
subsystem incompatibility, is if the "square end" was not square to the
axis, in the same plane?

Here's what I did:

I made a 1x3 and rounded off one edge with a continuous arc to make it
simpler for the test.

I made a component out of that and went into edit mode. I added a "tag"
rectangle 1.5" from the corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644623502875


Then I rotated the rectangle 135 degrees about the edge that was
attached to the piece:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


I used "intersect faces" and then erased the parts I didn't need:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


Then I turned the piece around to the other end:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


... and attempted to "push" the end face. It would not allow me to do
it. I could however "pull" it out to make it longer.

More to the point, leaving aside this particular issue, is this really
the best way to make a mitered rounded-over corner?


This works pretty easily for me. What I do a bit differently after the
slicing plane is in place, and I make it much larger than necessary, in
length and in height, is explode everything so that I know that I am not
trying to edit an element that is not actually in edit mode.

Select all, right click, intersect faces, with selection, and erase the
unwanted parts. Make it into a component again and
copy/lengthen/shorten as needed.








Question 2:

When I try to draw an arc inside a corner, sometimes Sketchup displays a
"snap point" when the arc is tangent to the lines that make up the
corner, but other times it does not. Does anyone know why?

Try holding the mouse down and sliding the arc tool cursor along either
of the edges until the "tangent to edge" dialogue appears.

Snapping to a point is essential in a 3d modeling environment and the
computer and its graphics subsystem must be compliant with the software
for it to work properly.

I'm not suggesting that yours is not compliant, just that these type
issues depend more upon the computer, the complexity of the model,
whether you are using more than one monitor (graphics card and whether
it is using on-board, cpu, or both) and whether the system is just
particularly busy at that point.



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On 5/11/2014 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote: On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg
Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

philosophical rant/ramblings

So, we preach using components and groups of edges and faces, _modeled
to coincide precisely with ALL the parts in a woodworking project_ .

That is an absolutely imperative concept to initially get your mind
around using 3D modeling software both effectively, and efficiently.

IOW, build the project in the software, just as you would in the shop,
before you go into the shop.

However, there are some things that simply don't need to modeled
precisely as individual parts.

I get that. I did it to help decide whether I wanted to do a visible
roundover or just ease the edges. I think I'm reasonably good at
visualizing things in my head, but I wanted to see this particular detail.

The idea behind modeling is to be able to quantify the "dimensions" of
the parts so you can transfer those dimensions to the material in the
shop.

When it comes to doing "round over" profiles for trim and frames, as in
your above, I routinely use a simple profile "face", and the "Follow Me"
tool, to wrap the "trim" where I want it. (I might add some joint lines,
etc., but that would be for visual, and perhaps measuring purposes)

I have tried that, and have run into a problem there as well. "Follow
me" works fine, until it gets to the fourth corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974687047/

Then it stops and won't wrap around:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/


This is much easier and more efficient than trying to make four mitered
parts to frame something, and you can still take the appropriate
measurements in SketchUp to get the proper dimensions for your mitered
parts.

IOW, I don't have to make a perfectly realistic model of a "frame and
panel" to get the measurements to make it in the shop ... I already know
how to make a frame and panel, I just need the project measurements.

You'll be happy to know then that I didn't draw in the dozens of hidden
dowels.

In short, often all that is needed is a single entity which is a
visually adequate representation of a frame and panel to take
measurements from, without the need to model it in precise detail.

Save yourself some time ... making sawdust is where the rubber meets the
road.

/philosophical rant/ramblings





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On 5/11/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/11/2014 11:14 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

First, you made it into a Group/Component, and were in Edit mode when
using the push/pull tool, right? Sorry, had to ask.

Yup. Just tried it again.

Just followed your steps and had no trouble pushing the square end to
the inside end point of the miter.

The only thing I can see causing this problem, other than a graphics
subsystem incompatibility, is if the "square end" was not square to the
axis, in the same plane?

Here's what I did:

I made a 1x3 and rounded off one edge with a continuous arc to make it
simpler for the test.

I made a component out of that and went into edit mode. I added a "tag"
rectangle 1.5" from the corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644623502875


Then I rotated the rectangle 135 degrees about the edge that was
attached to the piece:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


I used "intersect faces" and then erased the parts I didn't need:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


Then I turned the piece around to the other end:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644623502875/


Ok, here is what you can do, a few less steps. After making one end
correctly, select and copy the 45'ed face to the correct location on the
back edge. If the 45ed face is 2" in from the back corner copy it to
the opposite back corner 2" in from that corner then rotate that 45 copy
from the back edge 90 degrees to form the opposite 45ed corner. Select
all right click intersect with selection and erase unwanted parts.

On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/11/2014 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote: On 5/11/2014 8:55 AM, Greg
Guarino wrote:
... without having to move heaven and earth?

I just drew this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14157200902/

... with what seemed like more effort than routing and mitering the
actual wood. I drew a rectangular prism, drew arcs on the end and
pulled
the arcs into rounded-over edges. Then I drew a rectangle to use as a
"knife" and rotated it into position to slice off a miter on one end,
using "intersect faces".

I figured I could then copy that piece, mitered on one end only, and
use
"push" on the square end, pushing it until there was just a "triangle"
left. I'd copy that end wherever I needed it.

But no; Sketchup wouldn't allow me to push the square end for some
reason. So I had to repeat the whole process four times, once for each
end of each length of edging.

Surely someone has made an extension for this sort of thing?

philosophical rant/ramblings

So, we preach using components and groups of edges and faces, _modeled
to coincide precisely with ALL the parts in a woodworking project_ .

That is an absolutely imperative concept to initially get your mind
around using 3D modeling software both effectively, and efficiently.

IOW, build the project in the software, just as you would in the shop,
before you go into the shop.

However, there are some things that simply don't need to modeled
precisely as individual parts.

I get that. I did it to help decide whether I wanted to do a visible
roundover or just ease the edges. I think I'm reasonably good at
visualizing things in my head, but I wanted to see this particular detail.

The idea behind modeling is to be able to quantify the "dimensions" of
the parts so you can transfer those dimensions to the material in the
shop.

When it comes to doing "round over" profiles for trim and frames, as in
your above, I routinely use a simple profile "face", and the "Follow Me"
tool, to wrap the "trim" where I want it. (I might add some joint lines,
etc., but that would be for visual, and perhaps measuring purposes)

I have tried that, and have run into a problem there as well. "Follow
me" works fine, until it gets to the fourth corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974687047/

Then it stops and won't wrap around:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

You are almost doing it right. Again I like to do this in non=component
mode so that I know I am in total edit mode.

Draw your 3D rectangle piece, Draw your profile on one corner as usual
but before selecting the "follow me" command icon click/select the top
face that you want the profile to follow around. Then simply select the
follow me icon and click on the section of the profile that needs to be
removed and it should place the profile all the way around the surface
all at once.










This is much easier and more efficient than trying to make four mitered
parts to frame something, and you can still take the appropriate
measurements in SketchUp to get the proper dimensions for your mitered
parts.

IOW, I don't have to make a perfectly realistic model of a "frame and
panel" to get the measurements to make it in the shop ... I already know
how to make a frame and panel, I just need the project measurements.

You'll be happy to know then that I didn't draw in the dozens of hidden
dowels.

In short, often all that is needed is a single entity which is a
visually adequate representation of a frame and panel to take
measurements from, without the need to model it in precise detail.

Save yourself some time ... making sawdust is where the rubber meets the
road.

/philosophical rant/ramblings





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On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:


I have tried that, and have run into a problem there as well. "Follow
me" works fine, until it gets to the fourth corner:

There are two ways to use the Follow Me tool:

To drag your profile FACE along a path; or to have the FACE
automatically extrude along a path of preselected EDGES.

Which are you using?

My guess is you're using the first?

The second is the best way to use that particular tool.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/11/2014 11:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I have tried that, and have run into a problem there as well. "Follow
me" works fine, until it gets to the fourth corner:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/13974687047/

Then it stops and won't wrap around:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

Also, for the way you are using it, see if using the _top edge(s)_ as
your extrude path works.


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)