I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then
assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My
aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits,
then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty
haphazard in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down
the bookcase surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially
in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And
I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back
will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do
all those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and
live with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which
make up practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the
uprights will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can
be, that would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help
keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier
application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do
inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of
orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I
get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent
the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing
everything?

On 1/10/2013 4:13 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning:
prefinishing everything?

As long as you are using a final finish that you are familiar with and
have confidence that you can repair the inevitable scrape and ding from
assembly, that sounds like your best bet.

Keep in mind that pre-finished sheet goods are used by many professional
cabinet shops, so the problem of assembly after finishing may not be as
big an issue as you think.

Just realize that you need to be careful, plan your assembly process
with some thought, and things should work out well.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Greg Guarino wrote:
I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My
aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits,
then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty haphazard
in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down the bookcase
surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And
I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back
will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do all
those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and live
with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which make up
practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the uprights
will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can be, that
would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help
keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier
application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do
inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of
orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I
get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent
the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing everything?

My method is to perstain and finish parts that would be difficult to get
too after assembly. These include small spaces and tight corners. Flat
easy to get to exterior surfaces are finished after assembly.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:13:20 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote:

I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then
assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My
aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits,
then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty
haphazard in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down
the bookcase surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially
in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And
I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back
will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do
all those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and
live with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which
make up practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the
uprights will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can
be, that would be disappointing.

Sturdy, quick, and easy finishes like my fave (Waterlox) make it easy
to do and easy to repair if you mess up. But go ahead and rub it out
prior to assembly. It'll leave less to rub out later if repairs are
necessary.


[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help
keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier
application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do
inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of
orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I
get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent
the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing
everything?

Do it! Finish the wood (after taping joint areas), cut the dadoes,
glueup, touchup, rub it out, let it dry/cure/harden/destink, and then
go fill it with books!


--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

Greg Guarino wrote:
I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then
assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results.
My aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral
spirits, then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty
haphazard in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down
the bookcase surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled,
especially in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also.
And I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the
back will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have
to do all those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and
live with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which
make up practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the
uprights will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can
be, that would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to
help keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for
easier application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown
paper to do inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some
kind of orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell
for cars) Or might I get a smooth enough finish (at least for the
inside surfaces) if I tent the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing
everything?

It's a bookcase. There will be stuff on the shelves. That means - in my
case at least - I wouldn't *DREAM* of rubbing it down. The outside show
sides, yes; inside, not a chance. But if you just gotta, you could take the
back off. I couldn't because I glue them on.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 1/10/2013 6:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
As long as you are using a final finish that you are familiar with and
have confidence that you can repair ...

My "familiarity" and "confidence" with woodworking techniques are still
in their larval stages. That goes double for any sort of finishing. But
the fact that I got such good results with so little care makes me feel
pretty good about the method; it's evidently forgiving. I gave the test
pieces only the most cursory sanding and I applied the finish quickly,
and at close intervals (a few hours).

I'll be more careful with the actual project, which I'll probably find
was a mistake; the "secret" to the good results will turn out to have
been the slapdash work.

On 1/10/2013 11:38 PM, Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My
aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits,
then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty haphazard
in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down the bookcase
surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And
I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back
will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do all
those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and live
with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which make up
practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the uprights
will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can be, that
would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help
keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier
application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do
inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of
orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I
get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent
the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing everything?

My method is to perstain and finish parts that would be difficult to get
too after assembly. These include small spaces and tight corners. Flat
easy to get to exterior surfaces are finished after assembly.

My current thinking is to prefinish all of the interior surfaces. The
two outside uprights that will actually show I'll finish after assembly.
Those will be in contact with the work surface, the clamps and sundry
unintended objects during the process.

On 1/11/2013 5:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then
assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results.
My aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral
spirits, then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty
haphazard in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down
the bookcase surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled,
especially in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also.
And I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the
back will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have
to do all those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and
live with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which
make up practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the
uprights will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can
be, that would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to
help keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for
easier application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown
paper to do inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some
kind of orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell
for cars) Or might I get a smooth enough finish (at least for the
inside surfaces) if I tent the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing
everything?

It's a bookcase. There will be stuff on the shelves. That means - in my
case at least - I wouldn't *DREAM* of rubbing it down. The outside show
sides, yes; inside, not a chance.

I considered that, as I mentioned. But beyond that *I* would know that
the inside surfaces were rough(er), I think the rubbed surface will be
easier to clean and dust in use.

But if you just gotta, you could take the
back off. I couldn't because I glue them on.

That's why I was considering screwing the back on during the glue up of
the rest, and gluing it later. I now think I'll just prefinish
everything but the two outside ends that will show.

But that brings up another issue I've been wondering about. I'm making
all of my shelves fixed. As such, I could glue the back panel to the
backs of each of the shelves. But that would involve some pretty precise
masking.

I should back up for a second. I rabbeted the sides, tops and bottoms of
all of the units to inset the back panels. I intend to glue the back
into the rabbet all around the perimeter. I'll probably use a few screws
or maybe even nails to hold it while it sets.

But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be 28", made
of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/10/2013 11:38 PM, Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then assemble, then topcoat.

I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My
aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a
reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of
plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was
three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits,
then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper.

The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty haphazard
in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down the bookcase
surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially in the numerous corners.

So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before
assembly? I can think of two:

1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a
pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And
I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back
will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do all
those things for the stain step in any case.

2. I may damage the finish in assembly.

So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and live
with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which make up
practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the uprights
will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can be, that
would be disappointing.

[warning: high ignorance content]

Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help
keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier
application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do
inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of
orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I
get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent
the whole thing to keep the dust out?

Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing everything?

My method is to perstain and finish parts that would be difficult to get
too after assembly. These include small spaces and tight corners. Flat
easy to get to exterior surfaces are finished after assembly.

My current thinking is to prefinish all of the interior surfaces. The two
outside uprights that will actually show I'll finish after assembly.
Those will be in contact with the work surface, the clamps and sundry
unintended objects during the process.

Basically any part that would be easy to sand and finish after assembly
gets done after assembly.

Greg Guarino wrote:
But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of
the shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be
28", made of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

No downside. Not much not fastening it (to the shelves) at all.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 1/11/2013 8:09 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

On 1/10/2013 6:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
As long as you are using a final finish that you are familiar with and
have confidence that you can repair ...

My "familiarity" and "confidence" with woodworking techniques are still
in their larval stages. That goes double for any sort of finishing.

Were you applying NC lacquer as your topcoat, I would have definitely
recommended waiting.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/11/2013 8:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be 28", made
of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

That depends ...

How thick is the back? If it is 1/4" plywood (which is normally less
than 1/4", and has a tendency to bow slightly) you may find that you
will have a better fit by fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves.

1/2" back or more, and providing the back is flat, then not at all
necessary.

That said, and on longer spans, you will get much more sag protection by
fastening the back to any fixed shelving.

Note on fasteners for that job: if the back is not meant to be visible
and is 1/4" plywood, and instead of brads, I typically use 1/4" crown
staples for fastening the back to any fixed shelving ... much more
holding power than a brad or finish nail in that thickness plywood.

1/2" thicker or more, a finish nail or brad is sufficient.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/11/13 10:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
Note on fasteners for that job: if the back is not meant to be
visible and is 1/4" plywood, and instead of brads, I typically use
1/4" crown staples for fastening the back to any fixed shelving ...
much more holding power than a brad or finish nail in that thickness
plywood.


I just so happened to be doing that very thing, yesterday.
Do you happen to know if staples have more tendency to curve when shot?

I had a dozen or so take a hard left turn and blow out the sides of the
fixed plywood shelves and sides of this project. No big deal since I'm
painting but I'd be pretty ****ed if I was staining.

I know the 16gauge finish nails I shoot are more likely to bend in one
direction (can't describe which without looking at them)... I wonder if
staples are the same.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/11/2013 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

On 1/11/13 10:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
Note on fasteners for that job: if the back is not meant to be
visible and is 1/4" plywood, and instead of brads, I typically use
1/4" crown staples for fastening the back to any fixed shelving ...
much more holding power than a brad or finish nail in that thickness
plywood.


I just so happened to be doing that very thing, yesterday.
Do you happen to know if staples have more tendency to curve when shot?

That is always a concern, but my experience has been that if I use a
smaller staple than the thickness of the part receiving the "tines" it
is not usually a problem ... not to say that it hasn't happened on
occasion, but it is rare.

Don't know if it makes a big difference, but I specifically buy "Porter
Cable 1/4" Narrow Crown Galvanized Staples", in 1/2" length, for
installing cabinet backs of 1/4" plywood.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/11/2013 8:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be 28", made
of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

That depends ...

How thick is the back?

1/2", or whatever dimension "half-inch" ply is these days.

If it is 1/4" plywood (which is normally less
than 1/4", and has a tendency to bow slightly) you may find that you
will have a better fit by fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves.

1/2" back or more, and providing the back is flat, then not at all
necessary.

That said, and on longer spans, you will get much more sag protection by
fastening the back to any fixed shelving.

Which was why I asked. Screwing the back into the rear edges of the
shelves is OK for that purpose I assume.

Note on fasteners for that job: if the back is not meant to be visible
and is 1/4" plywood, and instead of brads, I typically use 1/4" crown
staples for fastening the back to any fixed shelving ... much more
holding power than a brad or finish nail in that thickness plywood.

1/2" thicker or more, a finish nail or brad is sufficient.

I was considering finish nails around the perimeter (in lieu of clamps)
to hold the back while the glue dried, and screws to fasten it to the
shelves.

On 1/11/2013 11:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/11/2013 8:09 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

On 1/10/2013 6:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
As long as you are using a final finish that you are familiar with and
have confidence that you can repair ...

My "familiarity" and "confidence" with woodworking techniques are still
in their larval stages. That goes double for any sort of finishing.

Were you applying NC lacquer as your topcoat, I would have definitely
recommended waiting.

I just bought some soup for lunch at the deli across the street. One of
the cashiers was in the middle of saying something (in Korean) to the
others that was apparently very funny. I'm sure your comment above was
also, but my knowledge of lacquer usage is on a par with my knowledge of
Korean, so I'm afraid both went over my head.

On 1/11/2013 11:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Swingman wrote:

1/2" back or more, and providing the back is flat, then not at all
necessary.

That said, and on longer spans, you will get much more sag protection by
fastening the back to any fixed shelving.

Which was why I asked. Screwing the back into the rear edges of the
shelves is OK for that purpose I assume.

Absolutely ...

I was considering finish nails around the perimeter (in lieu of clamps)
to hold the back while the glue dried, and screws to fasten it to the
shelves.

That will certainly work. And, if hand nailing finish nails, you will
want to consider pre-drilling your nail holes to insure that you do not
blow out any sides, simply because of all that pre-finishing work you
will have done.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/11/2013 11:50 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/11/2013 11:15 AM, Swingman wrote:

Were you applying NC lacquer as your topcoat, I would have definitely
recommended waiting.

I just bought some soup for lunch at the deli across the street. One of
the cashiers was in the middle of saying something (in Korean) to the
others that was apparently very funny. I'm sure your comment above was
also, but my knowledge of lacquer usage is on a par with my knowledge of
Korean, so I'm afraid both went over my head.

IOW, making invisible repairs in dings and scratches in some finishes
can be be harder than learning Korean.

How's that?

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/11/2013 1:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/11/2013 11:50 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/11/2013 11:15 AM, Swingman wrote:

Were you applying NC lacquer as your topcoat, I would have definitely
recommended waiting.

I just bought some soup for lunch at the deli across the street. One of
the cashiers was in the middle of saying something (in Korean) to the
others that was apparently very funny. I'm sure your comment above was
also, but my knowledge of lacquer usage is on a par with my knowledge of
Korean, so I'm afraid both went over my head.

IOW, making invisible repairs in dings and scratches in some finishes
can be be harder than learning Korean.

How's that?

Now I get it.

kam-sa-ham-ni-da (Thank you)

On Friday, January 11, 2013 6:29:31 AM UTC-8, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/11/2013 5:05 AM, dadiOH wrote: Greg Guarino wrote: I've received advice here to the effect that I should stain, then assemble, then topcoat. I've been making test pieces, as is my habit, and I like the results. My aim is to come up with a finishing regimen that I can complete in a reasonable amount of time on what is the better part of five sheets of plywood (to say nothing of the face frame). But the method I used was three coats of MinWax gloss poly cut (roughly) 50% with mineral spirits, then rub down with 0000 steel wool and brown paper. The finish looks and feels quite nice, even though I was pretty haphazard in the application. But I can't easily imagine rubbing down the bookcase surfaces effectively *after* they are assembled, especially in the numerous corners. So I'll ask again: what is the downside to finishing everything before assembly? I can think of two: 1. I have to mask the ends of each horizontal member, which will be a pain, and unless I'm real careful, the dadoes in the uprights also. And I'll have to mask "stripes" in the backs of the units, where the back will be glued to the backs of the shelves. Of course, I'll have to do all those things for the stain step in any case. 2. I may damage the finish in assembly. So what are my options? I could decide to forgo the rubbing down and live with a lesser degree of smoothness on the inside surfaces, which make up practically the whole project (only the outsides of two of the uprights will ever be seen). But having seen how good the results can be, that would be disappointing. [warning: high ignorance content] Could I screw the backs on temporarily while I glue up the rest (to help keep everything square), then remove the backs to allow for easier application? That still leaves the steel-wooling and brown paper to do inside shelf spaces that are as close as 11" apart. Would some kind of orbital buffer be of any use? (the kind they sell for cars) Or might I get a smooth enough finish (at least for the inside surfaces) if I tent the whole thing to keep the dust out? Or just perhaps, should I go the way I'm already leaning: prefinishing everything? It's a bookcase. There will be stuff on the shelves. That means - in my case at least - I wouldn't *DREAM* of rubbing it down. The outside show sides, yes; inside, not a chance. I considered that, as I mentioned. But beyond that *I* would know that the inside surfaces were rough(er), I think the rubbed surface will be easier to clean and dust in use. But if you just gotta, you could take the back off. I couldn't because I glue them on. That's why I was considering screwing the back on during the glue up of the rest, and gluing it later. I now think I'll just prefinish everything but the two outside ends that will show. But that brings up another issue I've been wondering about. I'm making all of my shelves fixed. As such, I could glue the back panel to the backs of each of the shelves. But that would involve some pretty precise masking. I should back up for a second. I rabbeted the sides, tops and bottoms of all of the units to inset the back panels. I intend to glue the back into the rabbet all around the perimeter. I'll probably use a few screws or maybe even nails to hold it while it sets. But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of the shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be 28", made of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

Can't see any advantage to gluing the back. Just use screws or nails where you need them then you always have the advantage of easy removal if you ever need it.

Poly is not easily repairable. Kind of just not repairable. Lacquer or shellac is totally repairable. Semms like a pretty high-tone finish for a book-case but if you are doing it as a fine piece of furniture, I didn't see any mention of wax. I would have applied wax with the steel wool and buffed that out as a final finish.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/11/2013 8:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

But is there any downside to fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves with screws only, no glue? The longest shelves will be 28", made
of 3/4" ply, and will have 1x2 face frames.

That depends ...

How thick is the back?

1/2", or whatever dimension "half-inch" ply is these days.

If it is 1/4" plywood (which is normally less
than 1/4", and has a tendency to bow slightly) you may find that you
will have a better fit by fastening the back to the rear edges of the
shelves.

1/2" back or more, and providing the back is flat, then not at all
necessary.

That said, and on longer spans, you will get much more sag protection by
fastening the back to any fixed shelving.

Which was why I asked. Screwing the back into the rear edges of the
shelves is OK for that purpose I assume.

Note on fasteners for that job: if the back is not meant to be visible
and is 1/4" plywood, and instead of brads, I typically use 1/4" crown
staples for fastening the back to any fixed shelving ... much more
holding power than a brad or finish nail in that thickness plywood.

1/2" thicker or more, a finish nail or brad is sufficient.

I was considering finish nails around the perimeter (in lieu of clamps)
to hold the back while the glue dried, and screws to fasten it to the shelves.

FWIW I almost always screw the backs on. Slower than stapling or nailing
but easily reversible and a touch better looking.