Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the best,
followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much wood
protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the stain,
that will do a good job?

Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is middling
in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with them? What is
regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it OK to
use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final coat? iyr, I
kluged together a paint sprayer/pressure pot deal, which worked great on a
T1-11 gate. I will be using this sprayer as much as possible. More on my
Sprayer Saga in another post.

I heard of something called "edge primer", for the ends, edges of wood.
Worthwhile? Good for non-edges?

For the plywood planters, I have some Frontier fibre roof coating, which is
like a paintable tar, close to the viscosity of paint. This was recommended
by some gardening sources.
Should I prime the planters with regular paint before applying this roof
coating?

Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.
--
EA

On 10/16/2012 10:11 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the best,
followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

The more gloss the longer it looks fresh, the duller the finish the
quicker it looks chalky. I would say that noen is better than the other
as far as protection.




I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

No! Unless you are painting in the rain. I have been using exterior
polyurethane based paint for years with great results.




Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much wood
protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the stain,
that will do a good job?

The above mention will not last as long as a good paint. The more
opaque the finish the better the protection.



Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is middling
in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with them? What is
regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

Not sure if you can mix but it will be a 1~3 year repeat.





For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it OK to
use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final coat? iyr, I
kluged together a paint sprayer/pressure pot deal, which worked great on a
T1-11 gate. I will be using this sprayer as much as possible. More on my
Sprayer Saga in another post.

What is your time worth? You are painting something that is going to be
in a harsh environment. No time to pinch pennies IMHO, buy new paint
and use the recommended primer.





I heard of something called "edge primer", for the ends, edges of wood.
Worthwhile? Good for non-edges?

You especially want to prime/paint the edges and in particular those
near the ground where water will splash or morning dew will collect.




For the plywood planters, I have some Frontier fibre roof coating, which is
like a paintable tar, close to the viscosity of paint. This was recommended
by some gardening sources.
Should I prime the planters with regular paint before applying this roof
coating?

Have you read the directions or asked those that recommended the product?

Existential Angst wrote:


As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is
the best, followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

Gloss (and the derivitives of it) are harder to get a good cover over, than
flats. I am not expert in this topic, but I am intuitively suspicious of
this scheme.


I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside,
which never made sense to me. Is this true?

I've never seen poly to be very UV resistant, so I wouldn't advocate poly -
but... remember - I'm not expert in this.


Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing
much wood protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put
over the stain, that will do a good job?

No idea.


Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is
middling in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in
with them? What is regarded as a better seal, that is generally
available?

No idea except that I have never heard any good results from Thompson's
except from their marketing department.


For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it
OK to use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final
coat? iyr, I kluged together a paint sprayer/pressure pot deal,
which worked great on a T1-11 gate. I will be using this sprayer as
much as possible. More on my Sprayer Saga in another post.

Old paint as a primer is just fine - as long as it's the same kind of paint.
Remember this fundamental - you want your paint to adhere to what is below
it - not just simply cover what is below it. You can mix and match all
kinds of crap and cover what is underneath, but it's adheasion that is your
friend.


For the plywood planters, I have some Frontier fibre roof coating,
which is like a paintable tar, close to the viscosity of paint. This
was recommended by some gardening sources.
Should I prime the planters with regular paint before applying this
roof coating?

See above.


Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.

War stories abound - they don't add to the knowledge base though. Go to a
real paint store - not Home Depot or Lowes or Menards, and ask a genuinely
qualified specialist.

--

-Mike-

In article , Mike Marlow
wrote:

Existential Angst wrote:


As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is
the best, followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

Gloss (and the derivitives of it) are harder to get a good cover over, than
flats. I am not expert in this topic, but I am intuitively suspicious of
this scheme.

Gloss shows flaws more than a semi-gloss, and a LOT more than satin.
Personally, I dislike gloss very much.

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. *
John Gierach

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...

Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the
best, followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

This topic is explored by Consumers' Reports every two years or so,
when it usually provides encyclopaedic data. Factors include:
-- local weather
-- horizontal or vertical surfaces (floors and table tops vs. walls)
-- finish (smoothness, visible metal fasteners etc.)
-- paint or stain?

Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much
wood protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the
stain, that will do a good job?

Anomaly: most stains are not designed to accept a clear topcoat. (This is
usual only indoors or with auto paints.)

Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is
middling in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with
them? What is regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

Timber waterproofing products are secondary to drainage, i.e. design so
that water runs off rather than puddles, and availability of drying winds.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On 10/16/2012 10:11 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the best,
followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

Yep.

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

Water based? Outside? There is sometimes water outside, you know?

Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much wood
protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the stain,
that will do a good job?

Stains are just a thin color layer.
They don't protect the wood from anything.

What do you want to protect it from?
Any nicks or hard wear will eventually grind through the stain.


Instead of stain use the wood you want it to look like.
Now you are protecting wood.


Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is middling
in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with them? What is
regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

ehh. pass


For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it OK to
use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final coat?

no

Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.

You first?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:11:53 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').


Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.

I already forgot about exterior paint. Here's my tip on that.
Let any exterior wood rot away and replace with new wood to rot away.
Use cedar if you can. Lasts longer and looks good natural.
Or plastic that doesn't rot.
For expensive-to-replace and must-look-painted stuff on the house,
have it clad with aluminum or plastic.
Exterior painting - except for bridges - is stone-age.

Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the
best, followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much
wood protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the
stain, that will do a good job?

Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is
middling in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with
them? What is regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it OK
to use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final coat?
iyr, I kluged together a paint sprayer/pressure pot deal, which worked
great on a T1-11 gate. I will be using this sprayer as much as possible.
More on my Sprayer Saga in another post.

I heard of something called "edge primer", for the ends, edges of wood.
Worthwhile? Good for non-edges?

For the plywood planters, I have some Frontier fibre roof coating, which
is like a paintable tar, close to the viscosity of paint. This was
recommended by some gardening sources.
Should I prime the planters with regular paint before applying this roof
coating?

Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.


*I have personally found that for exterior painting of new wood, it is best
to start with an oil based primer. After that you can put whatever color
latex finish on that you want after letting the oil primer dry for a few
days.

On 10/16/2012 3:31 PM, Richard wrote:
On 10/16/2012 10:11 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all
the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x
1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the
best,
followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

Yep.

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside,
which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

Water based? Outside? There is sometimes water outside, you know?

You realize that once water based paints cure that it is no longer as
susceptible to moisture? And or that most homes exteriors are painted
with water base.

On 10/16/2012 3:36 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:11:53 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').


Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.

I already forgot about exterior paint. Here's my tip on that.
Let any exterior wood rot away and replace with new wood to rot away.
Use cedar if you can. Lasts longer and looks good natural.
Or plastic that doesn't rot.
For expensive-to-replace and must-look-painted stuff on the house,
have it clad with aluminum or plastic.
Exterior painting - except for bridges - is stone-age.



Do you live in Arkansas?

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...


Before it gets too cold I would like to get at least some paint on all the
exterior wood I've put up:
pressure treated fencing, T1-11 gates, plywood planters (approx 1.5 x 1 x
3').

As far as paint (water based) goes, I heard that exterior gloss is the best,
followed by semi-gloss, then flat. Still true?

I read that polyurethane (water based) was not suitable for outside, which
never made sense to me. Is this true?

Recently here, someone made reference to wood stains not providing much wood
protection. If I use stain, what clear coating can I put over the stain,
that will do a good job?

Are "water seals" (the proverbial Thompsons, which I understand is middling
in effectiveness) generally clear? Can one mix stain in with them? What is
regarded as a better seal, that is generally available?

For non-staining apps, I have tons of exta paint lying around. Is it OK to
use any ole paint as a primer, without compromising the final coat? iyr, I
kluged together a paint sprayer/pressure pot deal, which worked great on a
T1-11 gate. I will be using this sprayer as much as possible. More on my
Sprayer Saga in another post.

I heard of something called "edge primer", for the ends, edges of wood.
Worthwhile? Good for non-edges?

For the plywood planters, I have some Frontier fibre roof coating, which is
like a paintable tar, close to the viscosity of paint. This was recommended
by some gardening sources.
Should I prime the planters with regular paint before applying this roof
coating?

Any advice, tips, experiences, war stories would be helpful.
--
EA


My over 10 year old shed with T-1-11 siding and pine trim, with shutters and
windows made from pine still looks good after using oil based primer and two
coats of latex based exterior paint. Located in upstate NY, where you can
only purchase oil based products in quarts due to the amount of VOC's.

I used an egg shell (almost flat) paint on the siding and a satin (light
gloss) for the trim with a gloss for the shutters to give the place a bit of
snap.

Not my advice but I got it from a retired painter that did this for a living
for many years and it turns out he was absolutely correct.

T-1-11 siding is a tough siding to cover so the primer and paint can provide
protection. I used a wire brush to flake off any loose wood particles
(brush with the grain) and then sprayed the primer on thinned to the specs
for the sprayer I was using. I made sure the primer coverage was adequate
and that it soaked in.

Two coats of the exterior grade paint were applied with a roller and a brush
and it was worked in to all the crevices and cracks. Thick paint may cover
but it may not get into all the crevices that prevents moisture from getting
under the paint and flaking it off after a few years. Two coats, lightly
thinned and worked into the wood did it for me.

My only problem after about 5 years was some bleed thru of knots on the trim
boards on the soffit. Some light sanding and quart of primer and another top
coat of the satin trim paint has lasted another 5 years.

BobS.

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:47:29 PM UTC-5, BobS wrote:
*Referencing T1-11

In 1990, I rebuilt my attached garage, using T1-11 on the east and south sides. Primed with Zinsser oil primer and painted with *Sears Weatherbeater house paint. I repainted these areas about 7 yrs ago, then a hurricane came through and blown-off tree limbs hit the east side, had to repaint that east side. Still looks good.

My shop has T1-11 siding, primed & painted as my garage. I used a 3/4" roller for priming & painting shop and garage. The thick nap allowed getting into the T1-11 grooves, first primer coat thinned for penetration. Once rolled on, I used a 4" brush as "dressing", smoothening. The shop remodel is ongoing, when I have time & help, and here are a few pics dating back to the beginning, in 2006.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4383614...57630986052728

*Our local Sears doesn't have a paint department anymore, so the garage part of the shop has Valspar (semi-gloss), rather than Sears Weatherbeater.

I'm in south Louisiana, if that makes any difference.
Sonny

On 10/18/2012 3:11 PM, Sonny wrote:
In 1990, I rebuilt my attached garage, using T1-11 on the east and south sides.

I'm in south Louisiana, if that makes any difference.


A bit of heaven, in heaven ... you done good, cher!


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2012 3:11 PM, Sonny wrote:
In 1990, I rebuilt my attached garage, using T1-11 on the east and south
sides.

I'm in south Louisiana, if that makes any difference.


A bit of heaven, in heaven ... you done good, cher!

I agree. Not only did he do good, but he recycled and old house in
disrepair and turned it into a first class shop. And I assume that it cost
a lot less than new construction. Recycling taken to a whole new level.

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:40:07 PM UTC-5, Lee Michaels wrote:
"Swingman" A bit of heaven, in heaven ... you done good, cher!
Recycling taken to a whole new level.

I've enjoyed remodeling this old house. And speaking of recycling, somewhat more on that story: After my mild stroke in 2002, insurance paid for my rehab, which included my going back to school in upholstery.... something to further help me get my strength & coordination and speech back, rather than a formal physical therapy program.

During my free time, I would drive to River Ranch, a high end subdivision being build, and dumpster dive for framing lumber, ply products, anything for the shop remodel. Lots of supplies to be had during 3-5 months of collecting.

Several of the contractors were aware of my shop project and assisted with my collecting of supplies. Rather than tossing stuff into the dumpster, they would put it along side the dumpster, for my easier collecting; placing non-scrap items there; at times, even helping me load stuff. One contrator told me he'd be working at such & such location, next week, so come by there, also.

The shop roof has a "new" layer of decking over the old. All the new or added framing came from framing stock collected. Several rolls/partial rolls of Tyvek were collected & used. Electrical boxes, wire nuts, and other assortment small items, as such, was collected. Almost all of the shop cabinets, seen in the pics, are build with the salvaged ply products and such. A new/in package 12" saw blade for my RAS. New, in package, pre-primed, several sets of interior door and window casings someone decided were not to be used. Rolls of that rubberized stickum door and window sealant tape (I don't know the proper name of that stuff). That large 4' X 9' garage window was salvaged. All sorts of supplies were collected.

I had lots of free time for my salvaging efforts, back then. The more I did, the more efficient I became, at it. It was profitable and the salvage work furthered my physical rehab, as well. And, notably, I enjoyed visiting with all those construction folks, also.

Sonny

Sonny wrote:


Several of the contractors were aware of my shop project and assisted
with my collecting of supplies. Rather than tossing stuff into the
dumpster, they would put it along side the dumpster, for my easier
collecting; placing non-scrap items there; at times, even helping me
load stuff. One contrator told me he'd be working at such & such
location, next week, so come by there, also.

The shop roof has a "new" layer of decking over the old. All the new
or added framing came from framing stock collected. Several
rolls/partial rolls of Tyvek were collected & used. Electrical boxes,
wire nuts, and other assortment small items, as such, was collected.
Almost all of the shop cabinets, seen in the pics, are build with the
salvaged ply products and such. A new/in package 12" saw blade for
my RAS. New, in package, pre-primed, several sets of interior door
and window casings someone decided were not to be used. Rolls of
that rubberized stickum door and window sealant tape (I don't know
the proper name of that stuff). That large 4' X 9' garage window was
salvaged. All sorts of supplies were collected.

I had lots of free time for my salvaging efforts, back then. The
more I did, the more efficient I became, at it. It was profitable
and the salvage work furthered my physical rehab, as well. And,
notably, I enjoyed visiting with all those construction folks, also.


I know a few people who like you, became expert at salvaging. I never
seemed to put the time/effort together for it. It is amazing the things
these people found and salvaged from the side of the road. One of my son's
friends heats his house all winter long (in Central NY where winters are
long and cold...), with free wood he picks up throughout the year. Like
you, others have outfitted garages with cabinets, etc. I'm not sure any of
them won over the hearts and minds of contractors on job sites as you have,
but they still seem to do very well just by watching the roadsides.

A guy that plays in my golf league plays with a set of clubs (a fairly good
set by the way...), a bag, and what seems like an endless supply of golf
balls - none of which he has paid for, or he has paid stupid cheap amounts
of money for. By that I mean a set of clubs that he paid $20 for.
Meanwhile, other players have paid over $100 for a single club - often times
the very same, or comparable club. Just goes to show - as you have
experienced - those roadside deals are there to be had, if one is focused on
them.

God bless you guys that have the initiative and the willingness to go find
those deals.

--

-Mike-

Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:40:07 PM UTC-5, Lee Michaels wrote:
"Swingman" A bit of heaven, in heaven ... you done good, cher!
Recycling taken to a whole new level.

I've enjoyed remodeling this old house. And speaking of recycling,
somewhat more on that story: After my mild stroke in 2002, insurance
paid for my rehab, which included my going back to school in
upholstery.... something to further help me get my strength &
coordination and speech back, rather than a formal physical therapy program.

During my free time, I would drive to River Ranch, a high end subdivision
being build, and dumpster dive for framing lumber, ply products, anything
for the shop remodel. Lots of supplies to be had during 3-5 months of collecting.

Several of the contractors were aware of my shop project and assisted
with my collecting of supplies. Rather than tossing stuff into the
dumpster, they would put it along side the dumpster, for my easier
collecting; placing non-scrap items there; at times, even helping me load
stuff. One contrator told me he'd be working at such & such location,
next week, so come by there, also.

The shop roof has a "new" layer of decking over the old. All the new or
added framing came from framing stock collected. Several rolls/partial
rolls of Tyvek were collected & used. Electrical boxes, wire nuts, and
other assortment small items, as such, was collected. Almost all of the
shop cabinets, seen in the pics, are build with the salvaged ply products
and such. A new/in package 12" saw blade for my RAS. New, in package,
pre-primed, several sets of interior door and window casings someone
decided were not to be used. Rolls of that rubberized stickum door and
window sealant tape (I don't know the proper name of that stuff). That
large 4' X 9' garage window was salvaged. All sorts of supplies were collected.

I had lots of free time for my salvaging efforts, back then. The more I
did, the more efficient I became, at it. It was profitable and the
salvage work furthered my physical rehab, as well. And, notably, I
enjoyed visiting with all those construction folks, also.

Most contractors around these parts hate to see stuff going into the
dumpster and would rather give excess away. I'm pretty good at estimating
material but sometimes I get fooled. I have a siding crew working on back
to back jobs right now and I swear they can cover two squares of house with
one square of siding ... I stop by, the house is almost covered, and the
pile of siding seems bigger than when I left earlier. Even though I'm going
to have to eat the surplus, I try to make it count for the good instead of
going into a dumpster and much prefer to see someone get some use out of it
.... can't even add up what we give to Habitat for Humanity on a yearly
basis.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 10/19/2012 10:49 PM, Swingman wrote:

Most contractors around these parts hate to see stuff going into the
dumpster and would rather give excess away. I'm pretty good at estimating
material but sometimes I get fooled. I have a siding crew working on back
to back jobs right now and I swear they can cover two squares of house with
one square of siding ... I stop by, the house is almost covered, and the
pile of siding seems bigger than when I left earlier. Even though I'm going
to have to eat the surplus, I try to make it count for the good instead of
going into a dumpster and much prefer to see someone get some use out of it
... can't even add up what we give to Habitat for Humanity on a yearly
basis.


Are you using the "colored" siding again or the regular primed siding?

On 10/20/2012 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:
Are you using the "colored" siding again or the regular primed siding?

James Hardie ColorPlus, both homeower's used the same color. You will
probably understand the dynamics of that more than I.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 10/20/2012 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/20/2012 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:
Are you using the "colored" siding again or the regular primed siding?

James Hardie ColorPlus, both homeower's used the same color. You will
probably understand the dynamics of that more than I.



Well for one, Bob/Susan are not to be out done by Jim/Diane.

Did you go inside to see my kitchen, at Bob/Susan's house?

On 10/20/2012 2:07 PM, Leon wrote: On 10/20/2012 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/20/2012 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:
Are you using the "colored" siding again or the regular primed siding?

James Hardie ColorPlus, both homeower's used the same color. You will
probably understand the dynamics of that more than I.



Well for one, Bob/Susan are not to be out done by Jim/Diane.

Did you go inside to see my kitchen, at Bob/Susan's house?

Hell yeah ... I was going to mention it, but they offered first.

Beautiful work, as usual!!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 10/20/2012 2:10 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/20/2012 2:07 PM, Leon wrote: On 10/20/2012 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/20/2012 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:
Are you using the "colored" siding again or the regular primed siding?

James Hardie ColorPlus, both homeower's used the same color. You will
probably understand the dynamics of that more than I.



Well for one, Bob/Susan are not to be out done by Jim/Diane.

Did you go inside to see my kitchen, at Bob/Susan's house?

Hell yeah ... I was going to mention it, but they offered first.

Beautiful work, as usual!!





Thank you

Can you believe this is all that I charged!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/