SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the
mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal
barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8
large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four of
these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated room
about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

The building is pole construction, well, actually 6x6 posts with 2x6 or 2x8
stringers on the outside about 2 feet apart. The metal siding is fastened to
the stringers. There are X braces between the posts fastened to the stringers.

I don't know anything about metal buildings except that the shed in the back
yard severely rusted after 12-15 years. I am concerned insulation might create
a dead pocket against the metal that would eventually cause rust damage to the
siding. I do not know if there is a moisture barrier under the slab.

I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not decided
how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one bay
(13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be there
until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???

I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the
existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway.
Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the
winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) . This new shop is the first time I've owned
anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker. Couple
of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Thanks for any help. Roy

I can't answer your insulating question, but an unobstructed south
facing wall might be a source for radiant heat, during the winter, if
uninsulated, there.... if you can't get it insulated before winter.

Sonny

Subject

Talk to the metal bld'g people.

Lew

Sonny writes:
I can't answer your insulating question, but an unobstructed south
facing wall might be a source for radiant heat, during the winter, if
uninsulated, there.... if you can't get it insulated before winter.


Where is Morris Dovey when you need him?

s

On 8/13/2012 3:52 PM, Roy wrote:
....

So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam?...

+1

--

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:52:03 -0500, Roy
wrote:




So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???


Unless the manufacturer says different, that would be my first choice.

In article ,
Roy wrote:

SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the
mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal
barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8
large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four
of
these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated
room
about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

The building is pole construction, well, actually 6x6 posts with 2x6 or 2x8
stringers on the outside about 2 feet apart. The metal siding is fastened to
the stringers. There are X braces between the posts fastened to the
stringers.

I don't know anything about metal buildings except that the shed in the back
yard severely rusted after 12-15 years. I am concerned insulation might
create
a dead pocket against the metal that would eventually cause rust damage to
the
siding. I do not know if there is a moisture barrier under the slab.

I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not
decided
how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one
bay
(13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be
there
until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust?
Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???

I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the
existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway.
Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the
winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) . This new shop is the first time I've
owned
anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker.
Couple
of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Thanks for any help. Roy

My pole barn is 17 years old. I was told by Wick (since bankrupt) that I
needed to roll on 2 good coats of rustoleum on the inside of the barn
and then insulate like I would any wall. I used auto primer (thick,
heavy paint) and put too good coats on with a medium knap roller.

I then set a pressure treated baseplate and nailed it into the slab, and
covered that with a second backplate to keep the mice and rats out of
the wall. I poured a thin cement mix between the edge of the slap and
the baseplates to create a vermin proof seal.

Then I ran 2x6s vertically between the posts creating an 6 inch pocket
to put fiberglass insulation into. I covered this will T-111 that got
two coats of exterior paint on all faces (including cut edges). I
screwed the T-111 in place.

A year ago I wanted to run a couple of new circuits, so I removed a
sheet of T-111. I had zero rust in the cavity and the fiberglass was in
good shape.

I live in Michigan, so my weather is hot and humid in the summer and
cold and wet in the winter. Only the shop area is heated and that only
when I am working (weekends).

I hope this helps

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:52:03 -0500, Roy
wrote:



SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the
mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal
barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8
large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four of
these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated room
about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

Unblock them and add opaque filters (white corr. fiberglass?) under
the skylights. It will give you the light without the heat. Be sure
to match up the position in the inner building's roof to let the light
into your environmentally controlled space.


The building is pole construction, well, actually 6x6 posts with 2x6 or 2x8
stringers on the outside about 2 feet apart. The metal siding is fastened to
the stringers. There are X braces between the posts fastened to the stringers.

I don't know anything about metal buildings except that the shed in the back
yard severely rusted after 12-15 years. I am concerned insulation might create
a dead pocket against the metal that would eventually cause rust damage to the
siding. I do not know if there is a moisture barrier under the slab.

Have you talked with any of the steel building manufacturers about it
yet? The guys at FutureSteel were great to talk to, giving me all the
info I asked for, and then some. I decided against buying a building,
though. (no cashish)


I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not decided
how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one bay
(13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be there
until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

Or maybe go with an inexpensive heat pump setup? Set the condenser
unit outside both buildings with a lean-to over it for added lifetime.


So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???

False wall/inside building would be my choice (wood's cheap here) with
2x8 or 2x10 ceiling & wall thicknesses. Use the top, under the metal
shell, for storage of your extra "stuff."


I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the
existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway.
Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the
winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) .

Why limit yourself? With thick walls in the insulated space (say,
half the shop and 10' tall?), enviro costs will be minimal.


This new shop is the first time I've owned
anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker. Couple
of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Metal roofs and buildings are said to have 50 year lifetimes. YMMV.

--
The business of America is not business. Neither is it war. The business
of America is justice and securing the blessings of liberty.
-- George F. Will

Thanks for all who offered suggestions. I will contact the builder for his
recommendations. Doug, thanks for sharing your procedure. I suspect that is a
detailed version of what the builder will recommend since closed cell spray will
probably be too expensive.

I liked the idea of dropping the ceiling. Two bays have 12 foot garage doors
but I could still drop it 4-5 feet except for where the doors run. With a
couple of sets of posts and beams I could use the space above for wood storage
or as a passive solar kiln. ;^)

BTW, I looked up Morris last night and he is still using his old website.
Unfortunatelty, very few of the links there still work. An overview of his
passive solar work is still there.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:28:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:52:03 -0500, Roy
wrote:

Hi Larry. I was hoping you'd stick your oar in the water over this..

SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the
mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal
barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8
large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four of
these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated room
about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

Unblock them and add opaque filters (white corr. fiberglass?) under
the skylights. It will give you the light without the heat. Be sure
to match up the position in the inner building's roof to let the light
into your environmentally controlled space.

I've been pondering how best to get the light down to the working space. I will
take a good look at what this entails when I get up to the new place. I would
love to have all the natural light I can get.

Have you talked with any of the steel building manufacturers about it
yet? The guys at FutureSteel were great to talk to, giving me all the
info I asked for, and then some. I decided against buying a building,
though. (no cashish)

I have not contacted the builder yet as I don't know who it is. All the
documents and drawings were left at the house and I have not been there since
the previous owners moved. I'll get up there in another few weeks though and
contact the builders.



I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not decided
how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one bay
(13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be there
until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

Or maybe go with an inexpensive heat pump setup? Set the condenser
unit outside both buildings with a lean-to over it for added lifetime.

I'll have to work the numbers and see which is going to be cheaper. My Mom, who
lives about 8 minutes from the new place has this setup.


So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???

False wall/inside building would be my choice (wood's cheap here) with
2x8 or 2x10 ceiling & wall thicknesses. Use the top, under the metal
shell, for storage of your extra "stuff."


I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the
existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway.
Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the
winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) .

Why limit yourself? With thick walls in the insulated space (say,
half the shop and 10' tall?), enviro costs will be minimal.


This new shop is the first time I've owned
anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker. Couple
of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Metal roofs and buildings are said to have 50 year lifetimes. YMMV.

Thanks to everybody who piped in on this thread. Lots of things for me to think
about while I'm packing stuff.

Roy

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:34:09 -0500, Roy
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:28:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:52:03 -0500, Roy
wrote:

Hi Larry. I was hoping you'd stick your oar in the water over this..

Huh? We're building docks now? I thought it was shop buildings.


SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the
mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal
barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8
large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four of
these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated room
about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

Unblock them and add opaque filters (white corr. fiberglass?) under
the skylights. It will give you the light without the heat. Be sure
to match up the position in the inner building's roof to let the light
into your environmentally controlled space.

I've been pondering how best to get the light down to the working space. I will
take a good look at what this entails when I get up to the new place. I would
love to have all the natural light I can get.

Have you talked with any of the steel building manufacturers about it
yet? The guys at FutureSteel were great to talk to, giving me all the
info I asked for, and then some. I decided against buying a building,
though. (no cashish)

I have not contacted the builder yet as I don't know who it is. All the
documents and drawings were left at the house and I have not been there since
the previous owners moved. I'll get up there in another few weeks though and
contact the builders.



I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not decided
how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one bay
(13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be there
until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

Or maybe go with an inexpensive heat pump setup? Set the condenser
unit outside both buildings with a lean-to over it for added lifetime.

I'll have to work the numbers and see which is going to be cheaper. My Mom, who
lives about 8 minutes from the new place has this setup.

Find a place who will wholesale a system to you and then use one of
their guys (off the clock) to do the connection/evac/fill of freon for
you. It's easy enough to do the rest yourself. I saved a few hundred
by running the 240v to the disconnect and installing attic lighting
for my VERY short attic where the HVAC unit went, but I had them
install the thing.


So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed
cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the
metal siding? Other???

False wall/inside building would be my choice (wood's cheap here) with
2x8 or 2x10 ceiling & wall thicknesses. Use the top, under the metal
shell, for storage of your extra "stuff."


I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the
existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway.
Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the
winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) .

Why limit yourself? With thick walls in the insulated space (say,
half the shop and 10' tall?), enviro costs will be minimal.


This new shop is the first time I've owned
anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker. Couple
of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Metal roofs and buildings are said to have 50 year lifetimes. YMMV.

Thanks to everybody who piped in on this thread. Lots of things for me to think
about while I'm packing stuff.

Let us know what you decide on once you actually see the new place. I
have friends in D.C. who are retiring to their folks' place in
Tennessee when they retire. He's been with the gov't for 29.5 years
and was retiring in November. In May, the personnel office called him
and said "Oops. We made several tiny mistakes about 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, you don't -have-a retirement plan." I'm hoping to hear
that he got it straightened out, but he hasn't emailed that to me yet.
sigh This ought to be high on the list of "Reasons to go Postal",
huh?

--
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.

Let us know what you decide on once you actually see the new place. I
have friends in D.C. who are retiring to their folks' place in
Tennessee when they retire. He's been with the gov't for 29.5 years
and was retiring in November. In May, the personnel office called him
and said "Oops. We made several tiny mistakes about 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, you don't -have-a retirement plan." I'm hoping to hear
that he got it straightened out, but he hasn't emailed that to me yet.
sigh This ought to be high on the list of "Reasons to go Postal",
huh?

Being staked out over an anthill covered in honey while somebody carefully
places burning coals all over their body and pulls out their hair and
fingernails is too good for them. Maybe the Feds pull that crap hoping people
will die of apoplexy when they hear it. Saves on paying retirement. I'm
surprised my former employer hasn't tried something like.