I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=

I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=


I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/8/2012 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=


I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

As Mike said, everyone has a different approach that is comfortable for
them. I prefer cutting crown in a shop made jig, thusly:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...01962496036914

Note that for this to work, the crown is cut upside down:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...02068916500178

Rockler also has a reasonable priced jig that works the same way, which
also has some suggestions for uses which may help your understanding:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10565

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=



I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Thanks,
Bill

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:11:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=



I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Don't be hung up on the DeWalt. There are other fish out there. Play with
them so see which one you think is best. The lack of a hold-down would be a
black mark but you'll probably want to add your own anyway.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:13:25 -0400, Bill wrote:


I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=

I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.

I get by with a HF 12" slider. If you want precision, go with the
Bosch or a Festool. Prices are $180, an arm and a leg, and both legs +
your firstborn, respectively.


In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It is resting on both flats, top and back, so it's stable. No worries.


It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Huh? Look at the pics more closely. The flats on the back of the
crown moulding give it a pretty good stability to cut against. If
you're careful, there is relatively little pressure by the saw blade,
which has super sharp teeth spinning really fast, on the piece.

--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:11:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=



I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Don't be hung up on the DeWalt. There are other fish out there. Play with
them so see which one you think is best.

On my path of learning about these things, I have learned that bigger
does not necessarily mean better (especially regarding accuracy). One
thing I like about the 10" one I linked to (DW713) is that it's vertical
height enables it to cut 4by4s, whereas Hitachi's less expensive unit
for intance, does not.

Which one or two do you think are best? I'm the guy who bought a
DeWalt 10-Amp drill, when he should have bought an impact driver! %-)

I think the right answer is that ya need a couple of these things to
have ones bases covered, but I'm not going there yet!

Cheers,
Bill


The lack of a hold-down would be a
black mark but you'll probably want to add your own anyway.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 18:42:08 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:11:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=



I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Don't be hung up on the DeWalt. There are other fish out there. Play with
them so see which one you think is best.

On my path of learning about these things, I have learned that bigger
does not necessarily mean better (especially regarding accuracy). One
thing I like about the 10" one I linked to (DW713) is that it's vertical
height enables it to cut 4by4s, whereas Hitachi's less expensive unit
for intance, does not.

I don't know what you're looking to spend but I too was almost set on a 10",
until I started really thinking about the cuts I wanted to make. I needed to
cut a bunch of pieces of 2x to match a 15:12 pitch hip roof. The 12" saw came
in quite handy. ;-)

Which one or two do you think are best?

Dunno, I bought a Bosch. I like it a lot but the dust collection could be a
*lot* better. Basically, it doesn't pick up anywhere nearly close enough to
the blade, so most of the chips blow right on by the dust pick-up. Putting a
dust collector on it is almost useless. I bought a "tent" sorta thingy to go
around it to at least try to keep the dust local. I'd sure be leery about
this if I were to replace it.

I'm the guy who bought a
DeWalt 10-Amp drill, when he should have bought an impact driver! %-)

I bought three DeWalt drills; gave two of them to the kid. They were too
heavy for the power. I kept the third, largest one. It has the second handle
for big jobs (but that's what I have the hammer drill for). It doesn't get
much use. ;-)

I think the right answer is that ya need a couple of these things to
have ones bases covered, but I'm not going there yet!

Drills/drivers? You betcha! I lost count of them. ;-) ...but my favorites
are the Bosch 12V. They're light and powerful enough for anything short of a
10x4" screw (and the driver will set a couple of dozen of those).

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:59:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 16:13:25 -0400, Bill wrote:


I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=

I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.

I get by with a HF 12" slider. If you want precision, go with the
Bosch or a Festool. Prices are $180, an arm and a leg, and both legs +
your firstborn, respectively.

Good description. ;-) I also have the HF 10" slider ($100). It really isn't
a horrible tool, though I don't think I would use it for woodworking. It's
great for construction jobs, though. If it rains on it, I haven't lost a lot.
;-)

In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It is resting on both flats, top and back, so it's stable. No worries.


It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Huh? Look at the pics more closely. The flats on the back of the
crown moulding give it a pretty good stability to cut against. If
you're careful, there is relatively little pressure by the saw blade,
which has super sharp teeth spinning really fast, on the piece.

....and a simple jig will give it all that much more stability.

On 7/8/12 4:11 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=




I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very
portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Thanks,
Bill

IME, miter saw hold down clamps are only beneficial to one-armed users.
:-)
BTW, if you're just doing one job with a bunch of the same crown
molding, five minutes with some scrap and super glue and you could have
a great jig. These adjustable ones are worth the extra money if you're
doing lots of different sized crown.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:


Which one or two do you think are best? I'm the guy who bought a
DeWalt 10-Amp drill, when he should have bought an impact driver! %-)


Don't say that Bill. A drill motor is a drill motor and an impact is an
impact. You did not do anything wrong in buying that drill motor.
Different tools for different jobs.

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:00:34 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 7/8/12 4:11 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=




I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very
portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Thanks,
Bill

IME, miter saw hold down clamps are only beneficial to one-armed users.
:-)
BTW, if you're just doing one job with a bunch of the same crown
molding, five minutes with some scrap and super glue and you could have
a great jig. These adjustable ones are worth the extra money if you're
doing lots of different sized crown.

Or your walls aren't square (are any?).

On 7/8/2012 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=


I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Thank you,
Bill



Compound miter saws are a fairly recent development. Crown molding has
been cut for years by setting it upside down in a miter box (hand or
power) set at the "spring angle" of the molding and then cutting an
inside coping angle or an outside miter.

Any good miter box, even a homemade wooden saw guide allows laying the
molding up on the back edge or down on the bottom. It is the whole
reason for having the tool. I guess I do not understand your dilemma.
--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

DanG wrote:
On 7/8/2012 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=



I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill



Compound miter saws are a fairly recent development. Crown molding has
been cut for years by setting it upside down in a miter box (hand or
power) set at the "spring angle" of the molding and then cutting an
inside coping angle or an outside miter.

Any good miter box, even a homemade wooden saw guide allows laying the
molding up on the back edge or down on the bottom. It is the whole
reason for having the tool.

I guess I do not understand your dilemma.

Thank you Dan. I was just trying to understand how to use the tool
properly. Two previous posters got me passed the "bumps" I was stuck on
earlier. Thank you for your offer of assistance!

I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?

Bill

Bill wrote:


I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?


That depends on how well your saw is set up Bill. Did you make any test
cuts to verfiy the setup of the saw? Your owner's manual will tell you how
to tweak it if it is not correct. Youtube to the rescue again - there are
some videos that will show you how to make the test cuts, and align the
boards to check the squareness of your saw's cuts.

If all is well with the squareness of your custs, then it does not matter
which direction you cut in. Whatever feels better for you.

--

-Mike-

On 7/9/2012 4:35 AM, Bill wrote:

I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?

NO ...

It is a simple process, put the 3" baseboard standing up against the
back fence, and cut it at the appropriate angle, usually ~45.

~ Baseboard goes flat against a vertical wall, so cut it flat against
the vertical fence.

~ Single piece crown molding generally installs at an angle against a
wall and the ceiling ... it is this angle the complicates things, if you
let it.

Fastest and easiest way to cut crown molding is upside down, at the same
angle it will interface with the wall and ceiling, using both the
vertical fence, and saw table.

That is all there is to it.

This is not rocket science, but it turns into it when you start doing
the calculations, or using the formulas, to cut molding using the
compound feature.

It is a good bet that less than 1% of those who buy a "compound" miter
saw ever use the "compound" feature.

AAMOF, it is rare that a professional trim carpenter will ever use the
compound feature. In years of building houses, I've never seen one used
on a job site, even for the most complicated, ornate, two part crown, never.

Throw your money at something else more useful.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 7/9/2012 4:35 AM, Bill wrote:
DanG wrote:
On 7/8/2012 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=




I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill



Compound miter saws are a fairly recent development. Crown molding has
been cut for years by setting it upside down in a miter box (hand or
power) set at the "spring angle" of the molding and then cutting an
inside coping angle or an outside miter.

Any good miter box, even a homemade wooden saw guide allows laying the
molding up on the back edge or down on the bottom. It is the whole
reason for having the tool.

I guess I do not understand your dilemma.

Thank you Dan. I was just trying to understand how to use the tool
properly. Two previous posters got me passed the "bumps" I was stuck on
earlier. Thank you for your offer of assistance!

I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?

Bill

Base board molding tends to be non symmetrical and because it appears
that your CMS only tilts in one direction you are pretty much locked in
to cutting the molding in the standing up position. You will be
switching the angle from one 45 degree setting to the other 45 degree
setting to do the other end for near 45 degree corners.

If you lay the molding on its back and make a 45 degree bevel cut for
one end you will have to turn the molding over to the face to cut the
other end and if the molding is not symmetrical this will not work. So
your best bet is to have the bottom of the molding setting on the saw table.

With all that said you will find that probably no corner in your house
will have a perfect 45 degree corner and they all will be different. If
you are painting the moldings get close and calk or cope the ends to fit
better. If staining use stainable or like colored putty or cope for a
better fit.

On 7/9/2012 7:45 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/9/2012 4:35 AM, Bill wrote:
DanG wrote:
On 7/8/2012 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=





I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3"
molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against
the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill



Compound miter saws are a fairly recent development. Crown molding has
been cut for years by setting it upside down in a miter box (hand or
power) set at the "spring angle" of the molding and then cutting an
inside coping angle or an outside miter.

Any good miter box, even a homemade wooden saw guide allows laying the
molding up on the back edge or down on the bottom. It is the whole
reason for having the tool.

I guess I do not understand your dilemma.

Thank you Dan. I was just trying to understand how to use the tool
properly. Two previous posters got me passed the "bumps" I was stuck on
earlier. Thank you for your offer of assistance!

I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?

Bill

Base board molding tends to be non symmetrical and because it appears
that your CMS only tilts in one direction you are pretty much locked in
to cutting the molding in the standing up position. You will be
switching the angle from one 45 degree setting to the other 45 degree
setting to do the other end for near 45 degree corners.

If you lay the molding on its back and make a 45 degree bevel cut for
one end you will have to turn the molding over to the face to cut the
other end and if the molding is not symmetrical this will not work. So
your best bet is to have the bottom of the molding setting on the saw
table.

With all that said you will find that probably no corner in your house
will have a perfect 45 degree corner and they all will be different. If
you are painting the moldings get close and calk or cope the ends to fit
better. If staining use stainable or like colored putty or cope for a
better fit.

I should have also mentioned in the second paragraph that if you lay the
molding with the back on the CMS table you can keep it laying on its
back and cutting the other end by flipping ends however again if the
molding is not symmetrical and the top is tapered, which most are, it
cold slip under the fence.

Basically less problematic with the base board standing and making angle
cuts.

On 7/8/12 11:25 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:00:34 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 7/8/12 4:11 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=




I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very
portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Thanks,
Bill

IME, miter saw hold down clamps are only beneficial to one-armed users.
:-)
BTW, if you're just doing one job with a bunch of the same crown
molding, five minutes with some scrap and super glue and you could have
a great jig. These adjustable ones are worth the extra money if you're
doing lots of different sized crown.

Or your walls aren't square (are any?).


Do out-of-square walls affect the angle at which the trim is held
against the fence when cut?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/9/12 4:35 AM, Bill wrote:
I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?

Bill

Baseboard is best cut with the top and front towards you, so it is the
first part to be cut by the blade. This is so any tear-out will be
avoided on the front of the trim. The top/narrow section of baseboard is
very easy to tear out, even with a very sharp blade.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/9/2012 9:35 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
....

Do out-of-square walls affect the angle at which the trim is held
against the fence when cut?

Better to adjust the angle of the dangle of the cutting arm/head rather
than try to fiddle w/ the work.

W/o a solid stop for it it's much more likely to grab and move thus
ruining a sizable chunk of material (and if that was the second-end cut,
your day just got a whole lot less pleasant... )

Not to say I haven't and don't do it on occasion ( )--but it's not
the better way, no...

--

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 09:35:49 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 7/8/12 11:25 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:00:34 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 7/8/12 4:11 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 7/8/12 3:13 PM, Bill wrote:

I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=




I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the
saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Most people figure out a way to cut crown molding that works best for
them and stick with it. There are many ways and you have to find what
you like, because another guy may hate that approach. Some use blocks on
the fence and table. Some use a jig. Some lay it flat and use the angles
conversion table that comes with most high end miter saws.

I've tried many ways and I settled on the Bench Dog Crown Cut jig. I
like it because it's not "attached" to the saw, it's very visual with
diagrams showing you exactly how to position the piece of molding for
the proper cut. It works very well, works for *me* and it's very
portable.

BTW, the way the crown is positioned on the saw in that picture works
fine as long as your trim is good quality. That 1/2" or less on each
edge is plenty enough surface for the trim to sit at the proper angle,
securely, when you're holding it. Sometimes you get trim with a really
sloppy factory primer job that leave glops and drops and bubbles on the
edges that can make it hard to "sit.' But a little sand paper or card
scraper can take care of that.


Mike, Thank you for your reply. I downloaded a copy of the Crown Cut jig
manual and it is furthering the explanation. It doesn't not take long to
see the value a jig like that! In the DeWalt reviews, many complain
that a DeWalt hold down clamp is $50, is not at all easy to track down,
and that it should come with the saw!

Thanks,
Bill

IME, miter saw hold down clamps are only beneficial to one-armed users.
:-)
BTW, if you're just doing one job with a bunch of the same crown
molding, five minutes with some scrap and super glue and you could have
a great jig. These adjustable ones are worth the extra money if you're
doing lots of different sized crown.

Or your walls aren't square (are any?).


Do out-of-square walls affect the angle at which the trim is held
against the fence when cut?

Sure. If the walls aren't plum it's going to have an affect, no?

On 7/9/2012 12:58 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
....


Sure. If the walls aren't plum it's going to have an affect, no?

Yeah, and an off-white wall is _much_ than a shade of violet, indeed...



--

On 7/9/12 12:58 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 09:35:49 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

BTW, if you're just doing one job with a bunch of the same crown
molding, five minutes with some scrap and super glue and you could have
a great jig. These adjustable ones are worth the extra money if you're
doing lots of different sized crown.

Or your walls aren't square (are any?).


Do out-of-square walls affect the angle at which the trim is held
against the fence when cut?

Sure. If the walls aren't plum it's going to have an affect, no?


That can all be compensated for in the angle of the cut. Why move two
objects instead of just one? Of course, when fine tuning a cut, I've
been know to pull the end out just a tad..... which can be done with a
portable jig.

In any case, whenever possible, I mark the cut, not measure the angle.
Meaning, with the trim on the wall, I mark the entry and exit points of
the cut and use those to set my miter angle.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I actually have more (3") baseboard molding I might replace, than
anything. Do you think that the saw doing a better job cutting it
standing up, lying down, or doesn't it make any difference?


That depends on how well your saw is set up Bill. Did you make any test
cuts to verfiy the setup of the saw?

I don't have a saw yet. Looking up owners manuals sounds like
a good way to find answers though. I mentioned I was looking at DW-713.

Bill


Your owner's manual will tell you how
to tweak it if it is not correct. Youtube to the rescue again - there are
some videos that will show you how to make the test cuts, and align the
boards to check the squareness of your saw's cuts.

If all is well with the squareness of your custs, then it does not matter
which direction you cut in. Whatever feels better for you.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Bill wrote:


Which one or two do you think are best? I'm the guy who bought a
DeWalt 10-Amp drill, when he should have bought an impact driver! %-)


Don't say that Bill. A drill motor is a drill motor and an impact is
an impact. You did not do anything wrong in buying that drill motor.
Different tools for different jobs.


You're replicating some functionality, but not all. It's worth having
both tools, even if the tailed drill doesn't get used all that often.

DAGS for Tom Watson's (I believe) "Ode to a corded drill".

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread, it was very insightful!

The "(3 layer) crown molding" in my house is not put up on a
diagonal--so that was a source of confusion for me when I started the
thread. It's great when people share with you what you need to know,
rather than just what you ask!

Thank you,
Bill

On 7/9/12 2:38 PM, Bill wrote:

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread, it was very insightful!

The "(3 layer) crown molding" in my house is not put up on a
diagonal--so that was a source of confusion for me when I started the
thread. It's great when people share with you what you need to know,
rather than just what you ask!

Thank you,
Bill

I'm sorry.... what!?
Are you telling us the put up crown molding flat against the wall....
parallel to the wall?
Please take a picture... I have to see this. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:


I don't have a saw yet. Looking up owners manuals sounds like
a good way to find answers though. I mentioned I was looking at
DW-713.

Expect that with any saw you purchase you will have to make this
check/adjustment.

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 15:33:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/9/12 2:38 PM, Bill wrote:

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread, it was very insightful!

The "(3 layer) crown molding" in my house is not put up on a
diagonal--so that was a source of confusion for me when I started the
thread. It's great when people share with you what you need to know,
rather than just what you ask!

Thank you,
Bill

I'm sorry.... what!?
Are you telling us the put up crown molding flat against the wall....
parallel to the wall?
Please take a picture... I have to see this. :-)

I'm guessing he means flat material, not crown. 3 pieces "stacked"

1. Flat 1x8
2. 6" base flipped upside down
3. 3" base flipped upside down

I've done this before and it looks darn good. It stands out as it's
stacked. Three times the work though....

: back to lurking mode :-\

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 15:33:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/9/12 2:38 PM, Bill wrote:

Thank you to everyone who posted to this thread, it was very insightful!

The "(3 layer) crown molding" in my house is not put up on a
diagonal--so that was a source of confusion for me when I started the
thread. It's great when people share with you what you need to know,
rather than just what you ask!

Thank you,
Bill

I'm sorry.... what!?
Are you telling us the put up crown molding flat against the wall....
parallel to the wall?
Please take a picture... I have to see this. :-)

I'm guessing he means flat material, not crown. 3 pieces "stacked"

1. Flat 1x8
2. 6" base flipped upside down
3. 3" base flipped upside down

Yes, for 1: Flat 1x8
Then the piece on top of that looks like it was routed out a
piece with cross section 3"h x 2"w. I suppose that could be a more
traditional looking strip of crown molding, but, if so I cannot tell
from looking at the end. Yes, it's all painted white.



I've done this before and it looks darn good. It stands out as it's
stacked. Three times the work though....

: back to lurking mode :-\

Puckdropper wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Bill wrote:


Which one or two do you think are best? I'm the guy who bought a
DeWalt 10-Amp drill, when he should have bought an impact driver! %-)


Don't say that Bill. A drill motor is a drill motor and an impact is
an impact. You did not do anything wrong in buying that drill motor.
Different tools for different jobs.


You're replicating some functionality, but not all. It's worth having
both tools, even if the tailed drill doesn't get used all that often.

DAGS for Tom Watson's (I believe) "Ode to a corded drill".

It popped right up. It was Very Heatwarming! : )




Puckdropper

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 19:08:08 -0400, Bill wrote:

I'm sorry.... what!?
Are you telling us the put up crown molding flat against the wall....
parallel to the wall?
Please take a picture... I have to see this. :-)

I'm guessing he means flat material, not crown. 3 pieces "stacked"

1. Flat 1x8
2. 6" base flipped upside down
3. 3" base flipped upside down

Yes, for 1: Flat 1x8
Then the piece on top of that looks like it was routed out a
piece with cross section 3"h x 2"w. I suppose that could be a more
traditional looking strip of crown molding, but, if so I cannot tell
from looking at the end. Yes, it's all painted white.


When stacked the three pieces, using the 6" & 3" base flipped upside
down the profile (appearance) matched the base profile on the floor
base trim. No routing.

This was on 14' ceilings. I really should pursue a picture of the
finished job.

On Jul 8, 4:13*pm, Bill wrote:
I was looking at pictures of
DEWALT DW713 10-Inch Compound Miter Saw
at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...duct_details?i....

I don't have a miter saw, but I've been looking for a while.
In the 3rd picture they show crown molding being cut
with it lying diagonally. That doesn't seem very "supportive"
to me, compared to the horizontal base or the vertical fence.
The picture preceding that one is interesting too (it shows a 3" molding
being cut resting on it's 1/2" edge--in that one I'm assuming
the the molding is being supported by the side of the fence
that you can't see (as well as the base).

It appears that the base is really the superior cutting surface of the
saw, so I'm not sure if one would make a mostly-vertical cut against the
fence. *An explanation for the first picture I mentioned would be
helpful. *I hope the answer is not "just to make the piece fit in the saw"!

Thank you,
Bill

Faster setup, one less angle to calculate. Mitering
crown molding isn't terribly hard if you're fitting it
to a perfectly square corner. Unfortunately, walls
*never* meet at a dead perfect 90 degrees. I do
agree about the poor support, even a cleat clamped
to the saw bed to hold the molding firmly would be
a big help.