Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and father-in-law had
an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both a woodworking and a
functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my brother-in-law to decide what
to do with the thing. I've read that restoring an antique piano can definitely
be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a
decent price if properly restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of
the restoration, and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he thinks it
needs to be re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to
scrap it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to get WAY
in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the brass soundboard
for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are in it, which I'm not
sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Steve Turner wrote:
Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and
father-in-law had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from
both a woodworking and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen
to my brother-in-law to decide what to do with the thing. I've read
that restoring an antique piano can definitely be worth the
investment, and Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a decent
price if properly restored. I could handle the woodworking portion
of the restoration, and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he
thinks it needs to be re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and
he is inclined to scrap it. He's tried advertising it locally, but
nobody seems to want the thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of
restoring it, but I don't want to get WAY in over my head either. If
he scraps it he'll try to sell the brass soundboard for scrap metal,
and I can keep whatever wood parts are in it, which I'm not sure is
worth the trouble. Thoughts?

Antique uprights are found for free on my local Craigslist at least one a
month. There is virtually no demand for these things, especially considering
electronic pianos that weigh in at 25 pounds.

What you CAN do with the thing - if the exterior is decent and restorable -
is turn the whole enchilada into a liquor cabinet.

On 6/21/12 2:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and
father-in-law had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both
a woodworking and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my
brother-in-law to decide what to do with the thing. I've read that
restoring an antique piano can definitely be worth the investment, and
Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a decent price if properly
restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and
possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be
re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap
it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to
get WAY in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the
brass soundboard for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are
in it, which I'm not sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?


Steve, get in touch with me via email or facebook.
I worked under a master carpenter between years at college... he
ironically was also my first drum teacher. I'm a better drummer, but he
is a far superior craftsman. :-) Anyway, years ago he got into piano
restoration and that's all he does now. His work is simply amazing.
I'll give you him contact info.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote:

Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and father-in-law had
an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both a woodworking and a
functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my brother-in-law to decide what
to do with the thing. I've read that restoring an antique piano can definitely
be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a
decent price if properly restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of
the restoration, and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he thinks it
needs to be re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to
scrap it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to get WAY
in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the brass soundboard
for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are in it, which I'm not
sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?
Generally not worth the trouble.

I've done it. A lot of work to get all the mechanism lined up and
adjusted - only needed a few strings and a few ahjusters so my
investment wasn't very high - but old upright grands are a dime a
dozen around here. The kids used it for their piano lessons, and I
think I got out of it what I put into it, less my labour, when we sold
it ten years later.

As for the "brass soundboard" - my bet is it is not. The soundboard is
generally wood, and the HARP is cast iron, painted a brass colour.
Have not seen a brass harp on ANY piano I've worked on or looked at.
If that sucker was brass, old pianos would be worth a fortune!!!!!!

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and father-in-law
had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both a woodworking
and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my brother-in-law to
decide what to do with the thing. I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. I could handle
the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of the
internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which evidently
can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it. He's tried advertising it
locally, but nobody seems to want the thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of
restoring it, but I don't want to get WAY in over my head either. If he
scraps it he'll try to sell the brass soundboard for scrap metal, and I
can keep whatever wood parts are in it, which I'm not sure is worth the
trouble. Thoughts?

Find out what one that is 100% restored is worth. Find out how much it is
going to cost you to restore yours, including your own labor at whatever
hourly rate you charge others. Then just do the math. Perhaps this is of
sentimental value to you, and you just want to fix it and keep it. There's
that, too. Don't know the current market value for pianos, but I'd guess it
is soft.

Steve

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner wrote:

I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. I could
handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of
the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which
evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it.

I doubt it's worth it from a monetary standpoint, but it might be fun to
do.

I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself? Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

Measure the diameters of any string to be replaced and look up the wire
size. You can get wire either precut with ends looped, or you can buy
coils and do it yourself.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:25:43 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner wrote:

I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. I could
handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of
the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which
evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it.

I doubt it's worth it from a monetary standpoint, but it might be fun to
do.

I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself?

An electronically tuned piano, tuned 100% accurately by instrument,
does not necessarily SOUND properly tuned. That's where a good tuner
comes in - but yes, you can get it acceptable after a few tries. You
will need a good set of Mutes as well to do the job.

Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

Correction - ALL pianos do for at least some notes.

As for "can't be tuned", they either CAN be tuned or are broken.
Whether they will HOLD a tune is a different story. You will need an
assortment of spare tuning pins of different oversizes to replace
those that do not hold. Occaisionally you can get away with replacing
a pin and not break the string - but you can pretty well count on
replacing the string on any pin that "slips". The strings from about
an octave below middle "C" on down are copper wrapped steel strings
instead of single piano-wire strings. If too many pins slip, the whole
pinblock needs to be replaced.

Measure the diameters of any string to be replaced and look up the wire
size. You can get wire either precut with ends looped, or you can buy
coils and do it yourself.
The more difficult part of setting up a restored piano is getting the
"action" adjusted properly. There are over 9000 parts in a typical
piano action that require precise adjustment. Then there ia all the
trapwork and the dampers. These three systems are all part of
"regulating" a piano. There are approxemately 24 or 25 adjustments for
every note.

I did ONE. Pretty much from scratch. An old Sherlock Manning upright
which at some time in it's life had been dropped, throwing the whole
mechanism off square. Not about to spend the time to do another one in
this lifetime. It's like rebuilding 15 V12 4 valve engines of
different displacements and then setting them up to idle in synch, and
accellerate smoothly and evenly, with none trying to overtake any
other.

When I had it done and got the tuner (who is also a piano rebuilder)
in to do the final tune, she asked who had done the regulating, as it
was obvious there had been a lot of adjusting done. I told her what I
had done - every last key removed, grooved felts sanded, loose felts
reglued and the main support parts rebent back to shape, then all
assembled, lined up, and adjusted - and said she had never seen a
non-professional pull off such a job, and so well.

The voicing was pretty good on it too. Voicing adjusts the TONE where
tuning adjusts the PITCH. Tone is affected by grooved hammers and
dampers and all that kind of stuff. Even the finish you use on the
exterior can affect the voicing of the piano. And if the sound board
is cracked you will never get it right. (the sound board is the heavy
wooden back - the frame, plate, or Harp is the (usually) cast iron
part that takes the tension of the springs.)

Steve Turner wrote:

Steve, know a guy who used to restore player grand pianos as a hobby. Drop
me an e-mail and I will try to get you in touch with him.

Deb

Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and father-in-law
had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both a woodworking
and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my brother-in-law to
decide what
to do with the thing. I've read that restoring an antique piano can
definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent brand that
can fetch a
decent price if properly restored. I could handle the woodworking portion
of the restoration, and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he
thinks it needs to be re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is
inclined to
scrap it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to get
WAY
in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the brass
soundboard for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are in it,
which I'm not
sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?

Steve Turner wrote in
:

Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and
father-in-law had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from
both a woodworking and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen
to my brother-in-law to decide what to do with the thing. I've read
that restoring an antique piano can definitely be worth the
investment, and Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a decent
price if properly restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of
the restoration, and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he
thinks it needs to be re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and
he is inclined to scrap it. He's tried advertising it locally, but
nobody seems to want the thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of
restoring it, but I don't want to get WAY in over my head either. If
he scraps it he'll try to sell the brass soundboard for scrap metal,
and I can keep whatever wood parts are in it, which I'm not sure is
worth the trouble. Thoughts?

Depends on what else is wrong with it. Some friends had a Steinway built
in the late 1800's, that was fully strung, and basically playable except
for one issue. Moths had gotten into it and eaten all the felt. It would
have cost more than a new Steinway to fix. The Steinway dealer took it
as a trade-in, possbly for parts.

Doug White

On 6/21/2012 2:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and
father-in-law had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both
a woodworking and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my
brother-in-law to decide what to do with the thing. I've read that
restoring an antique piano can definitely be worth the investment, and
Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a decent price if properly
restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of the restoration,
and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be
re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap
it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to
get WAY in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the
brass soundboard for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are
in it, which I'm not sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?

You may have seen this, but if not, here's some pictures of an 1895
Ellington upright being restrung:

http://www.pianofinders.com/educatio...ings/index.htm

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

As others have essentially said, unless you are absolutely dedicated
to the whole restoration, for the piano, itself, and/or for
sentimental values, that project can be an albatross for not only your
time, but also your money.

On a different note, about 5 yrs ago, I bought an upright at the state
auction, for $10, for my brother's 11 yr old, who is studious enough
to play several instruments really well. She had often said she
wanted a piano. One string was broken and that particular string cost
only $12. That turned out to be a pretty good deal and she still
enjoys the piano. At the auction, several other pianos, all teaching
instruments, so not antique, went for a tad more money and a baby
grand went for $600. A few months ago, at the state auction, 2
impulse-buyer idiots got into a bidding war over similar upright
school surplus pianos. The winning bidder bid $1500 on the first
piano and had the option of taking the other 3, each for the same
amount. He took all 4 pianos, probaby thinking he could resell them
for a profit. Both those bidders, obviously, didn't know the product
market. I'll bet the "winner" is still kicking himself for that
mistake.

Sonny

On 6/21/2012 2:16 PM, HeyBub wrote:
What you CAN do with the thing - if the exterior is decent and restorable -
is turn the whole enchilada into a liquor cabinet.

My wife actually suggested that at one point (something they used to do back in
the days of prohibition, apparently). We don't really have the room for it though.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 6/21/2012 2:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Steve, get in touch with me via email or facebook.
I worked under a master carpenter between years at college... he
ironically was also my first drum teacher. I'm a better drummer, but he
is a far superior craftsman. :-) Anyway, years ago he got into piano
restoration and that's all he does now. His work is simply amazing.
I'll give you him contact info.

Interesting that a person could make a living at that. I sent you a FB note.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 6/21/2012 8:10 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:25:43 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner wrote:

I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. I could
handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of
the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which
evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it.

I doubt it's worth it from a monetary standpoint, but it might be fun to
do.

I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself?

An electronically tuned piano, tuned 100% accurately by instrument,
does not necessarily SOUND properly tuned. That's where a good tuner
comes in - but yes, you can get it acceptable after a few tries. You
will need a good set of Mutes as well to do the job.

Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

Correction - ALL pianos do for at least some notes.

As for "can't be tuned", they either CAN be tuned or are broken.
Whether they will HOLD a tune is a different story. You will need an
assortment of spare tuning pins of different oversizes to replace
those that do not hold. Occaisionally you can get away with replacing
a pin and not break the string - but you can pretty well count on
replacing the string on any pin that "slips". The strings from about
an octave below middle "C" on down are copper wrapped steel strings
instead of single piano-wire strings. If too many pins slip, the whole
pinblock needs to be replaced.

Measure the diameters of any string to be replaced and look up the wire
size. You can get wire either precut with ends looped, or you can buy
coils and do it yourself.
The more difficult part of setting up a restored piano is getting the
"action" adjusted properly. There are over 9000 parts in a typical
piano action that require precise adjustment. Then there ia all the
trapwork and the dampers. These three systems are all part of
"regulating" a piano. There are approxemately 24 or 25 adjustments for
every note.

I did ONE. Pretty much from scratch. An old Sherlock Manning upright
which at some time in it's life had been dropped, throwing the whole
mechanism off square. Not about to spend the time to do another one in
this lifetime. It's like rebuilding 15 V12 4 valve engines of
different displacements and then setting them up to idle in synch, and
accellerate smoothly and evenly, with none trying to overtake any
other.

When I had it done and got the tuner (who is also a piano rebuilder)
in to do the final tune, she asked who had done the regulating, as it
was obvious there had been a lot of adjusting done. I told her what I
had done - every last key removed, grooved felts sanded, loose felts
reglued and the main support parts rebent back to shape, then all
assembled, lined up, and adjusted - and said she had never seen a
non-professional pull off such a job, and so well.

The voicing was pretty good on it too. Voicing adjusts the TONE where
tuning adjusts the PITCH. Tone is affected by grooved hammers and
dampers and all that kind of stuff. Even the finish you use on the
exterior can affect the voicing of the piano. And if the sound board
is cracked you will never get it right. (the sound board is the heavy
wooden back - the frame, plate, or Harp is the (usually) cast iron
part that takes the tension of the springs.)

Thank you, that's very good information. I think you've convinced me that I
have better things to do than to attempt the restoration myself. I'd still
hate to see this particular piano get scrapped, since I think (from what I've
read) an Ellington is one of the better brands to have been produced during
that era. Maybe we (my brother-in-law and I) can try some channels other than
just Craigslist to find the right buyer for the thing and see it down the road
to restoration. We'll see.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 6/22/2012 6:59 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/21/2012 2:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Has anybody here ever attempted such a feat? My mother- and
father-in-law had an antique Ellington upright that needs help from both
a woodworking and a functional perspective, and it's now fallen to my
brother-in-law to decide what to do with the thing. I've read that
restoring an antique piano can definitely be worth the investment, and
Ellington is a decent brand that can fetch a decent price if properly
restored. I could handle the woodworking portion of the restoration,
and possibly some of the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be
re-strung, which evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap
it. He's tried advertising it locally, but nobody seems to want the
thing. I'm intrigued by the idea of restoring it, but I don't want to
get WAY in over my head either. If he scraps it he'll try to sell the
brass soundboard for scrap metal, and I can keep whatever wood parts are
in it, which I'm not sure is worth the trouble. Thoughts?

You may have seen this, but if not, here's some pictures of an 1895 Ellington
upright being restrung:

http://www.pianofinders.com/educatio...ings/index.htm

Wow. No, I had not seen that. I don't really understand most of what I'm
looking at in those pictures, but it does give me a great appreciation for the
craft of piano design and restoration. It also makes me with I had about a
dozen other lifetimes to explore this and various other fields of artistic
endeavor. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Larry Blanchard wrote:


I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself? Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

There is much, much more then simply using an electronic tuner to tune a
piano. Pianos, with the possible exception of one tuned for specific use in
a concert composition in a specific key, are tuned using a method known as
"tempered" tuning.

Simply put, the strings of a piano must be deliberately mistuned in order
to be able to play that piano in ALL keys. While you can indeed use a tuner
to do that, you will not be successful without a through musical and
technological understanding of "tempered tuning", along with an excellent
ear.

A good piano tuner is a must, and earns every dollar he is paid.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On Jun 21, 7:25*pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner wrote:
I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. *I could
handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of
the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which
evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it.

I doubt it's worth it from a monetary standpoint, but it might be fun to
do.

I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself? *Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. *It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

Measure the diameters of any string to be replaced and look up the wire
size. *You can get wire either precut with ends looped, or you can buy
coils and do it yourself.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

HUGE undertaking. I have been around people that used to do that sort
of thing. The two I knew best are out of it as it was just not worth
it.
New strings can play havoc with the sound of the rest of the piano.

On Jun 22, 11:12*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
On 6/21/2012 8:10 PM, wrote:









On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:25:43 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:08:02 -0500, Steve Turner wrote:

I've read that restoring an antique
piano can definitely be worth the investment, and Ellington is a decent
brand that can fetch a decent price if properly restored. *I could
handle the woodworking portion of the restoration, and possibly some of
the internal rebuild, but he thinks it needs to be re-strung, which
evidently can cost $1000, and he is inclined to scrap it.

I doubt it's worth it from a monetary standpoint, but it might be fun to
do.

I do wonder though, with todays electronic tuners how hard would it be to
replace strings yourself?

An electronically tuned piano, tuned 100% accurately by instrument,
does not necessarily SOUND properly tuned. That's where a good tuner
comes in - but yes, you can get it acceptable after a few tries. *You
will need a good set of Mutes as well to do the job.

Try tuning first and only replace any strings
that can't be tuned. *It may well have more than one string per note, a
lot of pianos do.

Correction - ALL pianos do for at least *some notes.

As for "can't be tuned", they either CAN be tuned or are broken.
Whether they will HOLD a tune is a different story. You will need an
assortment of spare tuning pins of different oversizes to replace
those that do not hold. *Occaisionally you can get away with replacing
a pin and not break the string - but you can pretty well count on
replacing the string on any pin that "slips". The strings from about
an octave below middle "C" on down are copper *wrapped steel strings
instead of single piano-wire strings. If too many pins slip, the whole
pinblock needs to be replaced.

Measure the diameters of any string to be replaced and look up the wire
size. *You can get wire either precut with ends looped, or you can buy
coils and do it yourself.
* The more difficult part of setting up a restored piano is getting the
"action" adjusted properly. There are over 9000 parts in a typical
piano action that require precise adjustment. Then there ia all the
trapwork and the dampers. *These three systems are all part of
"regulating" a piano. There are approxemately 24 or 25 adjustments for
every note.

I did ONE. Pretty much from scratch. An old Sherlock Manning upright
which at some time in it's life had been dropped, throwing the whole
mechanism off square. Not about to spend the time to do another one in
this lifetime. It's like rebuilding 15 V12 4 valve engines of
different displacements and then setting them up to idle in synch, and
accellerate smoothly and evenly, with none trying to overtake any
other.

When I had it done and got the tuner (who is also a piano rebuilder)
in to do the final tune, she asked who had done the regulating, as it
was obvious there had been a lot of adjusting done. I told her what I
had done - every last key removed, grooved felts sanded, loose felts
reglued and the main support parts rebent back to shape, then all
assembled, lined up, and adjusted - and said she had never seen a
non-professional pull off such a job, and so well.

The voicing was pretty good on it too. Voicing adjusts the TONE where
tuning adjusts the PITCH. Tone is affected by grooved hammers and
dampers and all that kind of stuff. Even the finish you use on the
exterior can affect the voicing of the piano. And if the sound board
is cracked you will never get it right. (the sound board is the heavy
wooden back - the frame, plate, or Harp is the (usually) cast iron
part that takes the tension of the springs.)

Thank you, that's very good information. *I think you've convinced me that I
have better things to do than to attempt the restoration myself. *I'd still
hate to see this particular piano get scrapped, since I think (from what I've
read) an Ellington is one of the better brands to have been produced during
that era. *Maybe we (my brother-in-law and I) can try some channels other than
just Craigslist to find the right buyer for the thing and see it down the road
to restoration. *We'll see.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

*applause* Sometimes it is just so damn hard to walk away from an
interesting challenge. Smart to be able to walk away.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:06:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Simply put, the strings of a piano must be deliberately mistuned in
order to be able to play that piano in ALL keys. While you can indeed
use a tuner to do that, you will not be successful without a through
musical and technological understanding of "tempered tuning", along with
an excellent ear.

Interesting. I'll have to find my copy of "Design of Musical
Instruments" and see if it talks about that. Thanks.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 6/23/2012 11:56 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:06:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Simply put, the strings of a piano must be deliberately mistuned in
order to be able to play that piano in ALL keys. While you can indeed
use a tuner to do that, you will not be successful without a through
musical and technological understanding of "tempered tuning", along with
an excellent ear.

Interesting. I'll have to find my copy of "Design of Musical
Instruments" and see if it talks about that. Thanks.

The mathematics/physics are cut and dried, but the human ear injects a
subjectiveness to it all, and that, in nutshell, is where a good piano
tuner (human) comes in with his/her ability to know when to "stretch"
the tuning in certain octaves of the piano to please the artist.

The very first section (Pythagoras & Music) of the first link below, and
in particular the third and fourth short paragraphs in that section,
illustrates the mathematical problem, and need for "temperament" when
tuning an instrument that covers as many octaves as a piano, clavier,
harpsichord, etc:

http://www.jimloy.com/physics/scale.htm

http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html

http://www.kylegann.com/histune.html

J.S. Bach's, "The Well Tempered Clavier", illustrates all the above
nicely, and meaningfully, once you understand why it was written.

Had to deal with this constantly in my recording studio days, as many
record company recording artist's, and their contracts, were very
specific about tuning, temperament, and intonation of the studio piano
before and during sessions ... AAMOF, I was occasionally required to
keep a piano tuner on call during an entire session just in case.

There is nothing more picky, and anal, than a classically trained
musician ... from the weight of the music stand pencil lead (#1), to a
perceived shadow on the music stand; and a piano not tuned to perfect
satisfaction is grounds for capital punishment in their mind, no matter
how liberal their politics.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:23:24 -0500, Swingman wrote:

The very first section (Pythagoras & Music) of the first link below, and
in particular the third and fourth short paragraphs in that section,
illustrates the mathematical problem, and need for "temperament" when
tuning an instrument that covers as many octaves as a piano, clavier,
harpsichord, etc:

http://www.jimloy.com/physics/scale.htm

Excellent! Thanks. I may learn some musical basics yet :-). I took
piano lessons for at least 8 years as a child and got to be quite good
(now I'm one step above awful). But my teacher felt no need to teach
theory - probably didn't know it herself.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw