sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/12/2012 8:43 AM, Dave wrote:

I can still remember. 1964 in my father's Rambler station wagon, I was
10 years old at the time. He hit the brakes and my head crashed into
the dashboard.

.....Ahhhhso, now it starts to make sense:-)


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:

And yet SawStop sells well and is priced similar to the new Unisaw...


Define well, and provide some evidence thereof...

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 4/11/2012 10:44 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:53:54 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Well said!
(Hitting the 'send now' button a little fast aren't you Leon? :) )

LOL.... Intentionally blank.

I have to say, it was one of your more cogent postings :-)

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 4/11/2012 8:18 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 4/11/2012 4:18 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


The cost of seatbelts or gas is extremely small compared to the cost
of the car. The added safety was felt to be worth it by both the
gov't and most of the people, so it was instituted.

How do you figure, go to a dealership and order a seat belt and tell
me if you think a seat belt is small in price...

AND besides what does cost have to do with your way of thinking. I
have the idea that you will reject the SawStop if it were required
and was only $50 more expensive.


I missed Larry's comment above when he first posted it, so I'll tag on to
Leon's reply. I disagree that most people felt seat belts were worth it
when they were mandated. So much so that hardly anybody used them. Look
at
the backlash when their use became mandated. It was almost universal.
The
fact that they were not at all accepted by the public changes the context
of
the discussion.


LOL, I do recall all the complaints. The chest harness section of the
belt was a separate piece had had to be rehung above the drivers door or
it would get close up in the door when you exited. And then there was
the pressure against one's "breasts" that was uncomfortable.

And there was the "I don't want the government telling me that I have to
wear seat belts." I am a safe driver and not foolish like the other
drivers. Seat belts are going to cause more accidents because drivers
will have a false sense of security.
================================================== =================
Then there was my FILs excuse. "I never wear seatbelts. In an accident, I'd
rather be thrown clear". The man had the IQ of a turnip.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/12/2012 11:07 PM, CW wrote:


And there was the "I don't want the government telling me that I have to
wear seat belts." I am a safe driver and not foolish like the other
drivers. Seat belts are going to cause more accidents because drivers
will have a false sense of security.
================================================== =================
Then there was my FILs excuse. "I never wear seatbelts. In an accident,
I'd rather be thrown clear". The man had the IQ of a turnip.


RTFLMAO,


And I just knew you were going to say that he would simply brace himself
against the steering wheel in the event he crashed into something going
70 mph. ;~)

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/12/2012 10:13 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/11/2012 7:52 PM, Leon wrote:

Jack says:
Well, that's an industrial vac with a stainless steel tank, not
something someone not driving a Lincoln Pickup would buy for his shop.
More like something an MBAthinker might buy for his company for tax
purposes, or a gov't manager to insure spending all his budget to avoid
any cuts.

You always have an out or excuse.

You show me a shop vac that, while expensive, is still less than a
Festool and I called you on it, sorry. Then a giant stainless steel
industrial vac that few to no home or even small shop owners would buy,
and I called you on it. Not excuses, just how it is.

I actually was surprised you didn't come up with something like this:

http://www.americanvacuum.com/vacuum...central-vacuum

AAMOF you can buy the same brand vac
with stainless steel for less than $250.

$250 is way less than a festool, although still pricy when you can buy
one for under $100 that sucks just fine.

And what is your fetish with a lincoln PU???? Did one blow you off the
road???

A Lincoln pick up is purchased by the same guy that buys a caddy
convertible, mounts some Texan longhorns for the hood ornament, installs
some god awful musical air horns, and rides around town waving his 10
gallon hat, annoying, or attracting all the wimmin.

I'm reasonably certain the Lincoln pu was a great truck, I doubt Ford
lowered the quality just to fill the gaudy market.

You seem to have a hard on against a lot of products.

Wrong partner, you try to say I think Festools are junk, never said
that, just as I never said Lincoln pick ups were junk. My pick up will
probably haul as much, tow as much, plow just as much snow, and last
just as long as a Lincoln pick up will, at a lot less money. My 30 some
year old $80 shop vac will vacuum all the dust out of your $500 festool
sander, just as it does my $100 sander. That doesn't mean festool is
junk, it means cheaper can be good enough.

If anything, it's you that seem to think only Festool owners know or
value quality tools, and if it ain't Festool, or Laguna, it's not worth
owning. When Larry said he likes his Makita, you told him he only THINKS
he likes it... Wow, major issues you have there.


You are some what of a stereo typical prick huh Jack?

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/12/2012 12:14 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 4/11/2012 10:44 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:53:54 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Well said!
(Hitting the 'send now' button a little fast aren't you Leon? :) )

LOL.... Intentionally blank.

I have to say, it was one of your more cogent postings :-)

Easier for you to understand, was it Scott? ;~)

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 4/12/2012 11:07 PM, CW wrote:


And there was the "I don't want the government telling me that I have to
wear seat belts." I am a safe driver and not foolish like the other
drivers. Seat belts are going to cause more accidents because drivers
will have a false sense of security.
================================================== =================
Then there was my FILs excuse. "I never wear seatbelts. In an accident,
I'd rather be thrown clear". The man had the IQ of a turnip.


RTFLMAO,


And I just knew you were going to say that he would simply brace himself
against the steering wheel in the event he crashed into something going
70 mph. ;~)
================================================== =============
I guess that was the plan. He never did get to test his theory though. Died
of old age first.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:09:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 7:44 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:46:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 4:18 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Snip



IMHO on one wanted to start "the change" Yes cost would have been more
but absolutely not prohibitively expensive... Saw Stop is not having an
issue with actually going from an idea to a start up company and selling
thousands.

Compared to the other selling hundreds of thousands annually, that's a
small number. And the price of the saws SS sells is waaay up there.

You have data to back that up??? I know for a fact that Delta is only
in the hundreds of Unisaws in the last couple of years.

Had you read any of the info on the case, you would have seen it
listed numerous times. Delta, one look at the bloody price they
ask and you'll be able to guess why the sales numbers are slim.
I don't recall which document I read that gave those numbers, but it
was one of the legal papers. Looking online, I see that recalls give
you some interesting numbers.

And yet SawStop sells well and is priced similar to the new Unisaw...

That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Ryobo 21.5k, Ridgid 3k, DeWalt 13k, and those are only recalls of
individual models, not the total sales. The numbers are BIG.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml11/11066.html
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09311.html
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08259.html

Here ya go: Skil 120,000 http://tinyurl.com/89elgk2

Yeah that shows a lot of problems with saws sold recently.
But does not show comparative sales.

Hard to find. Go look yourself. I'm done doing your research.


No, that is just common sense. Had the manufacturers thought it would
have sold they would have been making them today. They chose not to let
us have the opportunity.

PROVE IT! Don't just guess it. (See how it feels, turkey?) ;)

You cannot prove something that requires common sense to some one with
out it. ;)

I know I can't. ;)


The cost of seatbelts or gas is extremely small compared to the cost
of the car. The added safety was felt to be worth it by both the
gov't and most of the people, so it was instituted.

How do you figure, go to a dealership and order a seat belt and tell me
if you think a seat belt is small in price...

AND besides what does cost have to do with your way of thinking. I have
the idea that you will reject the SawStop if it were required and was
only $50 more expensive.

Not true. But I'd sure hate to pay it to Gass, now that I've seen a
tiny bit of his playbook.

And yet you drive a car with required insurance.

WTF does insurance have to do with some speaking weasel?


I can only imagine the discussions that would have been had when the
regular guard was mandated. Surely that increased the price of every
saw, way back when, when most people did not have an extra dollar or two
to spend each month. It knocked plenty out of the market for a new saw.

A few bucks for a guard vs. a few HUNDRED for a safety mechanism.
That's not -quite- on the same level, is it?

You totally missed the point. I cannot explain it any simpler.

No, you missed it, Leon. A guard adds little to the overall price. A
SS could -triple- the cost of an inexpensive saw. A few bucks can be
saved up for, but triple the cost takes the things right out of the
realm of -possibility- for poor people. People who need things saved
for them, both then and now.

No you missed the point. ;~) A few bucks 50~60 years ago equates to
hundreds today.

It would have been 29 cents back then. Buy a clue, doooood.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/12/2012 11:07 PM, CW wrote:


And there was the "I don't want the government telling me that I have to
wear seat belts." I am a safe driver and not foolish like the other
drivers. Seat belts are going to cause more accidents because drivers
will have a false sense of security.
================================================== =================
Then there was my FILs excuse. "I never wear seatbelts. In an accident,
I'd rather be thrown clear". The man had the IQ of a turnip.


RTFLMAO,


And I just knew you were going to say that he would simply brace himself
against the steering wheel in the event he crashed into something going
70 mph. ;~)

I want to die like my grandfather, who passed in his sleep, not crying
and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:30:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 9:31 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:51:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
with SS, is extremely unethical in my books. It's not the sawstop,
it's the persons behind it which get my dander up.

Consider some of the people in the US who have bilked and defrauded
millions and millions of dollars from many thousands of people. Yet, I
never hear opinions like yours leveled against them. Compared to some
of these big guys, Gass is relatively a small timer, yet he is the one
that gets your goat. Why is that?

Because Larry "thinks" no one is telling him what to do and wants to
keep it that way. He must have a great set of blinders to filter out
what he does not want to see.

You still don't get it. I dislike what the SawStop owner is doing, not
the device itself. I'm not the slightest bit blind to the safety it
offers. I just don't want to have anything to do with some greedy
slimeball who couldn't sell his device (and should have nearly given
it away), that's all. Had he sold it to the mfgrs for a few grand a
mfgr license and a buck royalty per unit, he and his greedy partners
would all have had many millions to split within a couple years.
Retroactive sales would have skyrocketed that into quadruple millions
apiece.

Now stop lying about how I feel. It's not funny any more.


--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:58:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 11:32 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:09:46 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 4:50 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

No, $26,071 out the door new in Dec 2007. Standard cab, 6.5' standard
bed, Northwest towing package (radiator, 2" receiver hitch, larger
battery/alt/wiring), SR5 sport package, 4.7L small V-8, A/C, power
windows/doors, lovely TAN interior (I abhor gray!)


Scratching head.... was that sticker??? Probably not, I paid exactly
$28k drive out but the truck stickered for $34K+

No sticker o mine. I ordered it from the factory.

Well there was a sticker, that is law but they do not have to attach it
unless it goes on the lot for to be sold. The vehicles I have ordered
all had stickers that were given to me when I gave them a check.

I didn't know that.


Then, for the
second time in my life, the dealer bent me over. The two times in my
life when I ordered new vehicles from the factory have been
nightmares. Ford's dealer submitted two orders under the same number,
so when my 6 weeks was up, they said "Oops, your truck was never
built." After ordering my Toyota, the dealer came back and said that
the factory wasn't building any more '07s, so they found one close to
what I ordered and I got that.

Buying an 07 in Dec of 07, yeah I imagine there we no more 07's being
built any more. I am suprised that the 08's were not already in
production. I bought my 07 in the middle of July and that was near the
end of the build year.

I specifically didn't want an '08 due to the style changes.


Gold paint (which I like better than
the white I'd ordered) and the towing package were the only two
changes. Oh, and they dropped the price by another grand, totaling $3k
off the retail. It was one of only 3 standard cabs with the tan
interior left available in the USA at the time, too.

I originally ordered silver but I really like the charcoal grey.

In the Texas sunshine? Oy vey!


I got about the same deal on mine as the one I originally ordered with
the V6 because I was ready to close the deal and they would not have to
order another unit. Read that as a bird in the hand is worth two in the
bush.



But I got,,... ;~) 5.7 V* and honestly getting just under 17 mpg on
average in town driving. 6 auto speed trans, 4 door, SR5, running
boards, bed protector, towing package, AC and pwr doors windows, Stipe,
tinted front windows, Toyota alarm with glass break, mats, sliding back
glass, Alloy wheels, tool box under back seat, extra sound deadening.

Running boards, y'old GOAT?

LOL. My wife insisted, it is a tall step for her and those that ride in
the back.

Why didn't you get the electric automatic steps for it? Only $1,200
and none of the ugliness while driving. http://tinyurl.com/7nfmo8n


I think I have opened the sliding back glass once to see how it worked.

I used it all the time in my F150, and it saved my neck once when an
idiot housewife slammed into my dock bumper at 65mph on the freeway
when the rest of us had slowed to 35 for rush hour traffic.

It's too hard to reach while driving in the Tundra, so I don't often
use it.


I guess I have the alarm, too, and mats,
which were carefully recalled and found not to be a problem. Oh, one
other change was a stacked CD player: 6 instead of 1.

I think they all came with some type of integrated alarm, they added the
glass break sensor, a little doo dad on the center dash next to the MP3
jack.

Yeah, little red blinkin' light.


I really really like the tool box under the back seat, I keep jumper
cables, tie downs, etc under there.

I like the amount of tools I can get in the back when there's no seat
in the way.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but to deny
that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw, and that it
does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere, is nothing short of
foolish. That saw began selling well before he tried his tactics with the
Consumer Product Safety Commission. That alone is proof that the saw is
selling on its own merits. Your personal feelings toward Gass are clouding
your judgement.


--

-Mike-

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Larry Jaques wrote:


You still don't get it. I dislike what the SawStop owner is doing, not
the device itself. I'm not the slightest bit blind to the safety it
offers. I just don't want to have anything to do with some greedy
slimeball who couldn't sell his device (and should have nearly given
it away), that's all.

That's where the bull**** part of your argument raises it's ugly head Larry.
You seem to feel he should have given it away. How much of your labor and
your intelect do you give away? Is your work and are your efforts worth
compensation? Yet you have the balls to suggest that he should have nearly
given it away? West Coast thinking!

Had he sold it to the mfgrs for a few grand a
mfgr license and a buck royalty per unit, he and his greedy partners
would all have had many millions to split within a couple years.
Retroactive sales would have skyrocketed that into quadruple millions
apiece.

I agree that he could have agreed to different terms than he was originally
seeking, but you suggesting what those terms should be is a bit arrogant.


Now stop lying about how I feel. It's not funny any more.

You make it very clear how you feel - nobody has to lie about it for you.

--

-Mike-

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/13/2012 9:38 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I want to die like my grandfather, who passed in his sleep, not crying
and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

That is sooooo farking bad, Dude! LMAO


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Mike Marlow wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but to deny
that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw, and that it
does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere, is nothing short of
foolish.

My local Rockler advertised a SawStop demonstration on a Saturday
afternoon 3 weeks ago. The focus seemed to be on "The Hotdog
Demonstration" along with adequate description of the current cost of
medical procedures. I would very definitely say they were trying to
sell with fear of one sort or another.



That saw began selling well before he tried his tactics with the
Consumer Product Safety Commission. That alone is proof that the saw is
selling on its own merits. Your personal feelings toward Gass are clouding
your judgement.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:10:52 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but to deny
that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw, and that it
does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere, is nothing short of
foolish. That saw began selling well before he tried his tactics with the
Consumer Product Safety Commission. That alone is proof that the saw is
selling on its own merits. Your personal feelings toward Gass are clouding
your judgement.

If the equally well built Unisaw is not selling well, at the same
price, with its longstanding good reputation, what makes the
difference? I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:15:49 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


You still don't get it. I dislike what the SawStop owner is doing, not
the device itself. I'm not the slightest bit blind to the safety it
offers. I just don't want to have anything to do with some greedy
slimeball who couldn't sell his device (and should have nearly given
it away), that's all.

That's where the bull**** part of your argument raises it's ugly head Larry.
You seem to feel he should have given it away. How much of your labor and
your intelect do you give away? Is your work and are your efforts worth
compensation? Yet you have the balls to suggest that he should have nearly
given it away? West Coast thinking!

What part of his raking in "millions of dollars" did you not
understand?

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

"Larry Jaques" wrote

If the equally well built Unisaw is not selling well, at the same
price, with its longstanding good reputation, what makes the
difference? I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

Apples and oranges. Delta's reputation has been tarnished as of late.
There is no longer a company behind them that can be counted on, even to
supply parts old Delta tools. A lot of people want to go with somebody more
reliable. And a comparison between the two saws isn't really fair. That
safety stop is not only a good device, despite Gass being a scumbag, but the
saw is an excelled saw. I have looked at those two saws side by side. I
don't think they really compare. On a bang for your buck basis, the Saw
Stop is a better saw.

And if you are on any kind of budget, you won't buy either saw.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

"Bill" wrote

My local Rockler advertised a SawStop demonstration on a Saturday
afternoon 3 weeks ago. The focus seemed to be on "The Hotdog
Demonstration" along with adequate description of the current cost of
medical procedures. I would very definitely say they were trying to sell
with fear of one sort or another.

I think that is a waste of good hot dogs! They should do the demo, then cook
up the sausages on a grill. Put them on a sourdough bun and serve it up
with chili, sauerkraut and various condiments. Now that is a demo I would
go to!

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Swingman wrote in news:mvydnX9ofpc5bRXSnZ2dnUVZ_o-
:

On 4/13/2012 9:38 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I want to die like my grandfather, who passed in his sleep, not crying
and screaming, like the passengers in his car.

That is sooooo farking bad, Dude! LMAO



It's also about as old as the Model A. Well, maybe not quite that old but
not too much younger.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:44:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
Retroactive sales would have skyrocketed that into quadruple millions
apiece.
Now stop lying about how I feel. It's not funny any more.

Same reply. There's so many more American villains who are really
despicably evil and yet your direct your anger against Gass. Compared
to whatever he has done, and or is doing legally, Gass is a small time
player.

There's people who have defrauded thousands out of their homes and
life savings, and yet, Gass is the one that has your attention, your
enmity. Kind of short sighted I'd say.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:15:49 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
I agree that he could have agreed to different terms than he was originally
seeking, but you suggesting what those terms should be is a bit arrogant.

And isn't that the American way? Striving for the gold ring in the
land of wealth where all things are possible? I'm Canadian, but my
values aren't too far removed from that ideal.

I see very little wrong with Gass attempting to do what he's been
accused of doing. I'd suggest that even if he didn't try to have his
device mandated, chances are it would have happened anyway. Gass is
just trying to speed up the process. How many of us would turn down
the opportunity to be in Gass' shoes and become a really rich person?

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:04:59 -0400, Bill wrote:
My local Rockler advertised a SawStop demonstration on a Saturday
afternoon 3 weeks ago. The focus seemed to be on "The Hotdog
Demonstration" along with adequate description of the current cost of
medical procedures. I would very definitely say they were trying to
sell with fear of one sort or another.

And there's a problem with that? Fear has been used to affect sales
both negatively and positively for years. Consider graphic images on
cigarette packages to lessen sales or even daily dose aspirin which
can reduce certain cancer risks as well as other benefits.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:17:07 -0700, Larry Jaques
I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

I firmly believe it's the safety aspect of the SawStop that has
vaulted the SawStop to it's sales position. Care to prove me wrong?

Much the same wording, different viewpoint.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:17:43 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
a market used to paying high prices, demanding a quality product and
generally safety conscious. I think he is missing the boat on this
particular market.

You're kidding right? Give him time. You'll see a commercial version
eventually, He had to start somewhere.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but
to deny that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw,
and that it does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere,
is nothing short of foolish.

My local Rockler advertised a SawStop demonstration on a Saturday
afternoon 3 weeks ago. The focus seemed to be on "The Hotdog
Demonstration" along with adequate description of the current cost of
medical procedures. I would very definitely say they were trying to
sell with fear of one sort or another.



If that's how you chose to see it. I guess they should not try to market
the very design purpose of the saw, huh Bill?


--

-Mike-

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:10:52 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but
to deny that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw,
and that it does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere,
is nothing short of foolish. That saw began selling well before he
tried his tactics with the Consumer Product Safety Commission. That
alone is proof that the saw is selling on its own merits. Your
personal feelings toward Gass are clouding your judgement.

If the equally well built Unisaw is not selling well, at the same
price, with its longstanding good reputation, what makes the
difference? I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

Nope - I'm not the one making the assertion. If the Unisaw is not selling
as well as the SawStop (and I do not know if this is the case or not), then
I'd say the consumer is speaking. Why do people buy anything? Mabye the
people here who have purchased SawStops or would/are considering one, should
speak up and state why they would or did make that purchase decision.

--

-Mike-

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/13/2012 9:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:


LOL. My wife insisted, it is a tall step for her and those that ride in
the back.

Why didn't you get the electric automatic steps for it? Only $1,200
and none of the ugliness while driving. http://tinyurl.com/7nfmo8n

Dealer did not offer. And the truck came off of the transport with the
running boards.


I think I have opened the sliding back glass once to see how it worked.

I used it all the time in my F150, and it saved my neck once when an
idiot housewife slammed into my dock bumper at 65mph on the freeway
when the rest of us had slowed to 35 for rush hour traffic.

It's too hard to reach while driving in the Tundra, so I don't often
use it.


I guess I have the alarm, too, and mats,
which were carefully recalled and found not to be a problem. Oh, one
other change was a stacked CD player: 6 instead of 1.

I think they all came with some type of integrated alarm, they added the
glass break sensor, a little doo dad on the center dash next to the MP3
jack.

Yeah, little red blinkin' light.

No, the blinking light is up at the clock, my thing looks like a small
microphone, it is black and has several small holes in it.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:04:59 -0400, Bill wrote:
My local Rockler advertised a SawStop demonstration on a Saturday
afternoon 3 weeks ago. The focus seemed to be on "The Hotdog
Demonstration" along with adequate description of the current cost of
medical procedures. I would very definitely say they were trying to
sell with fear of one sort or another.

And there's a problem with that? Fear has been used to affect sales
both negatively and positively for years. Consider graphic images on
cigarette packages to lessen sales or even daily dose aspirin which
can reduce certain cancer risks as well as other benefits.

It's referred to as "fear appeal marketing" and it is used for many products
and agendas including table saws, termites, cigarettes, drug abuse, driving
while drunk, gun control, asbestos, political agendas, etc. It was even used
by the nurse in the maternity ward when I had the nerve to stand up while
holding my new born son, "You'll feel really bad if you drop him." Wanted to
bitch slap her... I was and am far more concerned with the potential for
medical malpractice or negligence than I am in my dropping a baby. Why?
Because of the huge incidence of documented medical misadventure in the U.S.
A Harvard Medical Practices study estimated 90,000+ die each year and many
times that number suffer staff infections and injuries.

As a consumer of information you have to be able to sort through the agendas
and figure out if there is any benefit to be gained from the product or
service... Sawstop technology has merit. This is especially true in
environments where relatively inexperienced people (training shops, schools,
homes, job sites) or people must work when they really shouldn't due to
fatigue or illness (commercial shops, industrial settings) or when people's
abilities are impaired by drugs or alcohol (a problem on some job sites and
home shops). Of course most of us here don't fall into any of those
categories as we're skilled and experienced woodworkers who know to leave
the shop when we're tired or ill, we're never in a rush or distracted, and
none of us are ever under the influence... ;~)

Case in point, I have my own form of fear appeal marketing in my shop. I
keep the remains of a glued up panel, that kicked back on the table saw late
one night, in clear view from my table saw. ;~) I understand the cause
well and it can be summed up by the word 'fatigue.' I should have gone to
bed and I should have put the t-splitter back in after making a non-through
cut.

John

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 02:34:06 -0400, Dave wrote:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:17:43 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
a market used to paying high prices, demanding a quality product and
generally safety conscious. I think he is missing the boat on this
particular market.

You're kidding right? Give him time. You'll see a commercial version
eventually, He had to start somewhere.

And the best place to start is where you can make the most money.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:28:50 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
Case in point, I have my own form of fear appeal marketing in my shop. I
keep the remains of a glued up panel, that kicked back on the table saw late
one night, in clear view from my table saw. ;~)

I don't keep mementos like that around, but I experienced one instance
of a kick back in the chest that's always in the back of my mind.
Using a tablesaw from a sitting position, I realized the potential for
a kick back that could literally take my head off.

It was that incident that prompted me to go looking for lowered table
saws or possibly ones that I could lower without too much difficulty.
The only cabinet saw I've found to date that meets that need is the
General Access line of tools. That's the saw I'll buy the next time
I'm ready to purchase.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/14/2012 8:28 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Case in point, I have my own form of fear appeal marketing in my shop. I
keep the remains of a glued up panel, that kicked back on the table saw
late one night, in clear view from my table saw. ;~) I understand the
cause well and it can be summed up by the word 'fatigue.' I should have
gone to bed and I should have put the t-splitter back in after making a
non-through cut.

With a table saw in particular, it's not a question of if, it's a
question of when ... no matter who you are. Do it long enough and you
will cross that line at some point, with dumb luck being the deciding
factor whether you come out unscathed.

Not putting the splitter back on has put my toes over the edge on a
couple of occasions, to the point of shivering when thinking about what
_could_ have happened.

For the way I use a table saw, and I use one daily, a splitter shares
the spotlight with a good _push block_ as mandatory safety devices.

(would love to own a table saw with a real riving knife)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/14/2012 1:32 AM, Dave wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:17:07 -0700, Larry Jaques
I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

I firmly believe it's the safety aspect of the SawStop that has
vaulted the SawStop to it's sales position.

I agree ..

The safety aspect, coupled with the differences in the way the younger
generation, who is currently buying woodworking equipment, was raised.

Those of us who are just a decade older were not raised in that
protective, cultural cocoon that even those currently in their 40's and
50's experienced since the sixties; and consequently, they are the ones
who appear to be more concerned with, and aware of, _personal_ safety.

The attitude of the generation that raised me was basically that, and
with regard to getting through life physically unscathed, some of us are
lucky and some are not. This was arguably the direct result of those
doing the raising being themselves raised in a severe economic
depression, followed shortly thereafter by participation in a world war
to the death.

To me it is particularly noticeable on G+, where most of the woodworking
participants are younger than those here, that _personal safety_ takes
on an aura of almost religious proportions from the get go, something
that almost had to be forced on many of us older farts.

YMMV ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/14/2012 8:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:10:52 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

If the equally well built Unisaw is not selling well, at the same
price, with its longstanding good reputation, what makes the
difference? I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

Nope - I'm not the one making the assertion. If the Unisaw is not selling
as well as the SawStop (and I do not know if this is the case or not), then
I'd say the consumer is speaking. Why do people buy anything? Mabye the
people here who have purchased SawStops or would/are considering one, should
speak up and state why they would or did make that purchase decision.

I'd bet a large part of the market is the school system with deep
pockets buying them so the kiddies can't cut off a fing-ee. Not saying
thats a bad idea, just that it's much easier for a government to spend
other peoples money on stuff for the kids than an adult to spend their
own money.

Hell, far as I know even Leon hasn't dumped his saw for a safer one,
choosing to spend his money on Festools and luguna's rather than saving
an occasional fing-ee here and there.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/14/2012 9:57 AM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:28:50 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
Case in point, I have my own form of fear appeal marketing in my shop. I
keep the remains of a glued up panel, that kicked back on the table saw late
one night, in clear view from my table saw. ;~)

I don't keep mementos like that around, but I experienced one instance
of a kick back in the chest that's always in the back of my mind.
Using a tablesaw from a sitting position, I realized the potential for
a kick back that could literally take my head off.

It was that incident that prompted me to go looking for lowered table
saws or possibly ones that I could lower without too much difficulty.
The only cabinet saw I've found to date that meets that need is the
General Access line of tools. That's the saw I'll buy the next time
I'm ready to purchase.

Why don't you get a contractors saw, and build a bench to whatever
height you want? I think even SS sells a contractors saw, don't they?

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:46:10 -0400, Jack wrote:
Why don't you get a contractors saw, and build a bench to whatever
height you want? I think even SS sells a contractors saw, don't they?

That is what I use know. I cut about three inches off each leg. I
added an Excalibur saw guide to it and bought a decent miter guide to
it. But in the end, it just isn't a cabinet saw.

I'm after a most elusive concept ~ a cabinet saw that will pass the
nickel test.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

On 4/13/2012 11:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:10:52 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


That's because they've got all the braindead safety nazis onboard.
Is Gass gonna put out a new book titled _SELL WITH FEAR_, maybe?
/teensy bit of angst


Oh come on Larry. I understand your angst with Gass' approach, but to deny
that the saw is selling because it is a very well built saw, and that it
does offer a degree of safety not available elsewhere, is nothing short of
foolish. That saw began selling well before he tried his tactics with the
Consumer Product Safety Commission. That alone is proof that the saw is
selling on its own merits. Your personal feelings toward Gass are clouding
your judgement.

If the equally well built Unisaw is not selling well, at the same
price, with its longstanding good reputation, what makes the
difference? I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

First off, you are the first person that I have heard mention that the
new Unisaw is equally well built. I know of no one that has been
impress with the new Unisaw. Over all the SawStop is a better thought
out and saw.

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Ok, as an older guy, let me just say, that if I had to buy a TS again,
and right now I don't, but if I did, it would be a Saw Stop. Yes
because of safety. I find myself realizing that I am getting slower in
certain areas. Memory for one. I need my fingers to type for a living
when I am making it. If I get stupid I want to be safe.

On the other hand, hands down our other American saws are not built as
nice as the Saw Stop. Gass pulled out the stops. We Americans are
behind the Europeans when it comes to innovation in Saws. Too bad.

But Saw Stop does take a leap, with an American design that is better
than the rest. The European Riving knife... The quality of the casting
and trunnion. The hand wheels just show off the final details.

Why would I buy Delta when they have repeatedly let me down?

And for the quality of the saw, the price of the safety trigger almost
seems negligible.

On 4/14/2012 11:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/14/2012 1:32 AM, Dave wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:17:07 -0700, Larry Jaques
I firmly believe it's the "selling of fear" advertising
Gass has done. Care to prove me wrong?

I firmly believe it's the safety aspect of the SawStop that has
vaulted the SawStop to it's sales position.

I agree ..

The safety aspect, coupled with the differences in the way the younger
generation, who is currently buying woodworking equipment, was raised.

Those of us who are just a decade older were not raised in that
protective, cultural cocoon that even those currently in their 40's and
50's experienced since the sixties; and consequently, they are the ones
who appear to be more concerned with, and aware of, _personal_ safety.

The attitude of the generation that raised me was basically that, and
with regard to getting through life physically unscathed, some of us are
lucky and some are not. This was arguably the direct result of those
doing the raising being themselves raised in a severe economic
depression, followed shortly thereafter by participation in a world war
to the death.

To me it is particularly noticeable on G+, where most of the woodworking
participants are younger than those here, that _personal safety_ takes
on an aura of almost religious proportions from the get go, something
that almost had to be forced on many of us older farts.

YMMV ...

sizing home jointers and planers?
 

Who cares about the nickel test. Just some stupid things the magazines
care about.

The real reason for wanting a cab saw (which I don't have, I have a
contractor saw) is for perfect cuts when the blade is tilted. Most
contractor saws can't do it. I have tried the tricks to get my delta
tuned so it works, even loosening the motor rods and getting them lined
up using the plate trick... Still sucks... Nickels on edge is BS.

On 4/14/2012 1:19 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:46:10 -0400, wrote:
Why don't you get a contractors saw, and build a bench to whatever
height you want? I think even SS sells a contractors saw, don't they?

That is what I use know. I cut about three inches off each leg. I
added an Excalibur saw guide to it and bought a decent miter guide to
it. But in the end, it just isn't a cabinet saw.

I'm after a most elusive concept ~ a cabinet saw that will pass the
nickel test.