It's never too late to learn something new. I needed a plywood back for
the hammered dulcimer I'm building. I could have gone out and got some
walnut/cherry/etc. plywood, but I had some Baltic birch and a lot of
veneer of various sorts I picked up a few years back. The size was too
large for my little press I use for box tops and the like, and I have
neither the space nor the money to get into vacuum veneering so hammer
veneering was the only option.

I have three books on veneering plus all I could learn from online
sources. Naturally they disagreed on more than one thing. For example,
one book used veneer tape to join the pieces while a second said don't
ever do that, the tape comes loose and you have a mess. Of course I
followed the first book and the second was right!

Both a book and an online video showed spraying both sides of the veneer
with water immediately before use. The book said let it drain for a
minute, the video used an iron on it. I tried both. Would you believe
veneer expands across the grain about 3/4" per foot when wet? At least
the stuff I was using did. One piece actually developed stress cracks in
the middle of the sheet after drying.

I don't have a heat gun to warm up the plywood, but I found that using
the iron worked just as well.

I didn't have much luck with the "overlap and cut" technique. Jointing
the edges by clamping them between pieces of MDF with factory edges and
then sanding them straight worked much better.

The first try was a disaster. Not only did I have the aforementioned
veneer tape all over the place, the glue was too thick - I followed the
wrong book again. Then there was the expansion bit and my inexperience.

I think I'm finally getting the hang of it, although I won't be sending
in photos in to Fine Woodworking any time soon. Here's my procedu

1. A day or two before the actual use, flatten the veneer with water and
the iron and keep it pressed flat.

2. Joint it with the mdf/sandpaper.

3. Cut the veneer with about a 1/8" overhang on all edges not jointed -
usually the ends.

4. Get the glue pot and iron working. Make sure the glue is thin enough
and keep adding water throughout the process to replace that lost.

5. Use the iron to warm the area of the plywood for the first/next sheet
of veneer.

6. Spread the glue with the largest appropriate brush.

7. Put down the veneer, carefully butting it against the prior piece if
not the first.

8. Use the iron to warm things up again.

9. Hammer the veneer. Why isn't it called a veneer squeegee?

10. Repeat steps 5-9 till done.

I do have one question. I know I can use urea to lengthen the open time
of the glue, but the amounts specified seem all over the place. Some
folks even make their own liquid hide glue - I sure don't want to go that
far.

So if there are any hide glue experts out there, how much urea should be
added to half a pound of ground hide glue just to extend the open time by
a minute or two? Or would I do better to increase the open time by
thinning the glue instead?

BTW, hide glue does *not* stink - there's almost no odor unless you
overheat it - then it smells awful.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 1/2/2012 7:18 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

So if there are any hide glue experts out there, how much urea should be
added to half a pound of ground hide glue just to extend the open time by
a minute or two? Or would I do better to increase the open time by
thinning the glue instead?

BTW, hide glue does *not* stink - there's almost no odor unless you
overheat it - then it smells awful.

Stephen Shepherd posts on G+ and has even wrote a book, IIRC:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

Nice guy and more than willing to talk.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Larry Blanchard wrote:

I didn't have much luck with the "overlap and cut" technique.
Jointing the edges by clamping them between pieces of MDF with
factory edges and then sanding them straight worked much better.

The first try was a disaster. Not only did I have the aforementioned
veneer tape all over the place, the glue was too thick - I followed
the wrong book again.

I don't understand your problem with the tape. Once the edges are joined,
tape them together on the top side; when the tape is dry, bend the joint,
put in a smidgeon of glue, bend together again and let dry. I use a few
strips of masking tape across the joint on the side opposite the veneer tape
to hold the veneer edges firmly together both while taping and while gluing
the edges together.

Once all the pieces of veneer are fastened together, glue them to whatever
you are veneering and once dry, remove the veneer tape. Tape with holes in
it makes removal much easier.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 07:22:44 -0500, dadiOH wrote:


I don't understand your problem with the tape.

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off. Your
method sounds great for other glues - have you tried it with hot hide
glue and a veneer hammer?

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:33:51 -0600, Swingman wrote:

Stephen Shepherd posts on G+ and has even wrote a book, IIRC:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

Nice guy and more than willing to talk.

Thanks. I posted a comment on the blog. We'll see if he, or one of his
readers, has the answer on the urea.


--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 1/3/2012 12:08 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:33:51 -0600, Swingman wrote:

Stephen Shepherd posts on G+ and has even wrote a book, IIRC:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

Nice guy and more than willing to talk.

Thanks. I posted a comment on the blog. We'll see if he, or one of his
readers, has the answer on the urea.

Damn ... my roots are showing!!:

"... has even _wrote_ a book,.."??

Sheeesh, my eighth grade English teacher is spinning in her grave!


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 07:22:44 -0500, dadiOH wrote:


I don't understand your problem with the tape.

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off. Your
method sounds great for other glues - have you tried it with hot hide
glue and a veneer hammer?

Nope but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Once the joints are taped and
glued and the glue is dry, the tape is pretty much superflous.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 12:33:02 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/3/2012 12:08 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:33:51 -0600, Swingman wrote:

Stephen Shepherd posts on G+ and has even wrote a book, IIRC:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

Nice guy and more than willing to talk.

Thanks. I posted a comment on the blog. We'll see if he, or one of his
readers, has the answer on the urea.

Damn ... my roots are showing!!:

"... has even _wrote_ a book,.."??

Sheeesh, my eighth grade English teacher is spinning in her grave!

Heh heh heh. You can take a coonass outta the country...

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 07:22:44 -0500, dadiOH wrote:


I don't understand your problem with the tape.

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off.

Why are you putting glue on the top?

I could understand water - maybe - but not enough to soften the glue in the
tape to the point of being pulled off. And, as I said here, once the veneer
pieces are edge glued, the tape id ptryyu much superfluous.
--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:55:15 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off.

Why are you putting glue on the top?

It's a standard practice for lubricating the hammer - check any book on
veneering.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Jan 3, 1:01*pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 07:22:44 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
I don't understand your problem with the tape.

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off. *Your
method sounds great for other glues - have you tried it with hot hide
glue and a veneer hammer?

Wetting the substrate with hot water (your glue pot's water jacket
is a convenient source) increases open time.

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:18:44 -0800, Father Haskell wrote:

When using hot hide glue, wetting the top with either water or glue
results in the tape loosening - then the hammer pulls it off. Â*Your
method sounds great for other glues - have you tried it with hot hide
glue and a veneer hammer?

Wetting the substrate with hot water (your glue pot's water jacket is a
convenient source) increases open time.

So does ironing it or using a heat gun (without adding to cupping), but
what does that have to do with the lines you quoted?

I was responding to a poster who didn't understand why veneer tape and
hot hide glue didn't play well together.

P.S. Apropos of nothing, my glue pot doesn't have a water jacket.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw