http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821

--
"A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to
blame somebody else." -John Burroughs

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 07:26:51 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821


Thanks Doug,

Here's a link to the list mentioned in the report:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...-america-home/
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On 12/4/2011 8:26 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821

Too damn bad that:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:08:47 -0500, Nova wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 07:26:51 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821


Thanks Doug,

Here's a link to the list mentioned in the report:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...-america-home/

Cool. I'll see if I can scare up those mfgrs here in OR, and ask my
suppliers to offer them if they don't now.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:




Too damn bad that:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

True, but now is the time to get ready for when it returns.




2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

I'm not se what you mean about the taxes. In this area, most of the
tradesmen are US taxpaying citizens. Many are not working as often as
they should because building is slow, but the ones that are, pay
taxes, buy goods and services. Yes, they do buy flat screen TV's and
send that money outside, but they buy American pickup trucks too.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 12/4/2011 8:26 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821

Too damn bad that:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

Don't forget the Greenies, who forced the lumber to be mostly
imported. There are still dozens of lawsuits against lumber mills here
in OR right now. sigh (That said, I don't want to see any clearcut
forests anywhere near me, TYVM.)


2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Surprisingly enough, I didn't see the usual swarm of Mexilaborers on
that site, Swingy. SoCal is built mostly by Hispanics of unknown
nationality, but almost certainly not American citizens. Something
like $10B from wages goes directly to Mexico via wire every year.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...ion/na-remit26
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html


Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

True, but now is the time to get ready for when it returns.

I don't see that happening until the market is allowed to reset. And with
the current entitlement mentality of this administration that will not
happen.

2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

I'm not se what you mean about the taxes. In this area, most of the
tradesmen are US taxpaying citizens. Many are not working as often as
they should because building is slow, but the ones that are, pay
taxes, buy goods and services. Yes, they do buy flat screen TV's and
send that money outside, but they buy American pickup trucks too.

I live in California and most of the framers and concrete is done by Illegal
Mexicans. It's only the finish trades that are made up of legals.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb

On 12/4/2011 11:36 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:




Too damn bad that:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

True, but now is the time to get ready for when it returns.

The foreclosure bubble, on housing that most of those left with jobs who
may qualify for financing, hasn't even hit yet, so don't hold your breath.

2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

I'm not se what you mean about the taxes. In this area, most of the
tradesmen are US taxpaying citizens.

Don't work in the construction industry do you?

"Tradesmen", in the traditional sense in which you are using the term,
no longer build houses.

"Laborers", who work for the few "tradesmen" left (defined today as the
smarter of those who got here first, but not necessarily with the skills
of craftsmanship you would expect in the traditional sense of the term),
build today's houses.

Many are not working as often as
they should because building is slow, but the ones that are, pay
taxes, buy goods and services. Yes, they do buy flat screen TV's and
send that money outside, but they buy American pickup trucks too.

Go build a house or two as a GC, then come back and tell me how many of
your misconceptions above are in tatters.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 12/4/2011 11:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:


2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Surprisingly enough, I didn't see the usual swarm of Mexilaborers on
that site, Swingy. SoCal is built mostly by Hispanics of unknown
nationality, but almost certainly not American citizens. Something
like $10B from wages goes directly to Mexico via wire every year.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...ion/na-remit26
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html


Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

LOL! You get it because you're in the business and therefore see the
bull**** for what it is, but you wouldn't expect the Diane Sawyer's of
the media to make it as obvious as it really is now do you?

This video, and the concept behind it, is nothing more but warm and
fuzzy, feel good propagandizing that in no way addresses the underlying
issues brought to you by your clowngressman and both political parties.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

On 12/4/11 12:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/4/2011 11:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

LOL! You get it because you're in the business and therefore see the
bull**** for what it is, but you wouldn't expect the Diane Sawyer's of
the media to make it as obvious as it really is now do you?

This video, and the concept behind it, is nothing more but warm and
fuzzy, feel good propagandizing that in no way addresses the underlying
issues brought to you by your clowngressman and both political parties.


Agreed, Karl. It's not an all inclusive solution, but it's certainly a
good start, right?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 09:43:30 -0800, Rich wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

True, but now is the time to get ready for when it returns.

I don't see that happening until the market is allowed to reset. And with
the current entitlement mentality of this administration that will not
happen.

2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

I'm not se what you mean about the taxes. In this area, most of the
tradesmen are US taxpaying citizens. Many are not working as often as
they should because building is slow, but the ones that are, pay
taxes, buy goods and services. Yes, they do buy flat screen TV's and
send that money outside, but they buy American pickup trucks too.

USED, WORN OUT pickups, though.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 12:08:43 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 12/4/2011 11:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:


2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Surprisingly enough, I didn't see the usual swarm of Mexilaborers on
that site, Swingy. SoCal is built mostly by Hispanics of unknown
nationality, but almost certainly not American citizens. Something
like $10B from wages goes directly to Mexico via wire every year.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...ion/na-remit26
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html


Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

LOL! You get it because you're in the business and therefore see the
bull**** for what it is, but you wouldn't expect the Diane Sawyer's of
the media to make it as obvious as it really is now do you?

Once all the states get the mandatory hiring checks in place, the
illegal population should diminish. Saaay, before we deport them, we
should make them to build a climb-over/dig-under-proof wall at the
borders, huh, to defray the costs of deportation? Write to your
CONgresscritter today!


This video, and the concept behind it, is nothing more but warm and
fuzzy, feel good propagandizing that in no way addresses the underlying
issues brought to you by your clowngressman and both political parties.

Correction: "both totally corrupt political parties."

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

On 12/4/2011 12:31 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

Having traveled most of the US playing music during the past 30 years,
and at the same time having taken due notice of regional construction
ongoings out of informed curiosity, I would say, IME, you are much more
likely to be incorrect on that score than correct.

No area of the US is immune from immigrant labor from South of our
borders, legal or otherwise.

Please note that I'm a huge proponent of immigrant labor in the form of
a regulated "Guest Worker Program".

But, unlike our clowngress and both political parties, I do not, in any
way shape or form, agree with their obvious ignoring of a social problem
caused by the lack thereof, when a realistic, logical solution is
available, especially one that improves conditions for all concerned.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:31:45 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

No, you are correct. Many parts of the country have other illegals,
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:34:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

Well admittedly, my experience in the building trades is limited. I
will however, defer to your opinion in the form of having watched
entire departments disappear (including one I worked in) when I was
employed at IBM. Invariably, those departmentswere farmed out
overseas. First it was Ireland, then India, then I stopped paying
attention out of disgust.

On 12/4/2011 1:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:31:45 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

No, you are correct. Many parts of the country have other illegals,
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

And Carlos Osario, the Columbian national in the sawstop suit in MA?

I see, with my own eyes, more and more example on "This Old House" every
year, even though I'm sure, and it is reasonable to assume, that at
least some effort is made to insure that you don't.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 12/4/2011 1:00 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/4/11 12:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/4/2011 11:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

LOL! You get it because you're in the business and therefore see the
bull**** for what it is, but you wouldn't expect the Diane Sawyer's of
the media to make it as obvious as it really is now do you?

This video, and the concept behind it, is nothing more but warm and
fuzzy, feel good propagandizing that in no way addresses the underlying
issues brought to you by your clowngressman and both political parties.


Agreed, Karl. It's not an all inclusive solution, but it's certainly a
good start, right?

I don't buy into it, Mike. The basic tenet of property ownership,
freedom and peace is "free trade".

"Buy American" is, IMO, nothing more than a pacifier to make the average
American ignoramus citizen feel good about something while he is being
robbed of his property, freedom, and ability to trade freely by those
who impose upon him both a fiat currency, and purchased political class,
to keep him under their thumbs.

Then again, I'm just an old, cynical SOB ...


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 12/4/11 2:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/4/2011 1:00 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/4/11 12:08 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/4/2011 11:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

One or two American laborers still work here, yeah?

LOL! You get it because you're in the business and therefore see the
bull**** for what it is, but you wouldn't expect the Diane Sawyer's of
the media to make it as obvious as it really is now do you?

This video, and the concept behind it, is nothing more but warm and
fuzzy, feel good propagandizing that in no way addresses the underlying
issues brought to you by your clowngressman and both political parties.


Agreed, Karl. It's not an all inclusive solution, but it's certainly a
good start, right?

I don't buy into it, Mike. The basic tenet of property ownership,
freedom and peace is "free trade".

"Buy American" is, IMO, nothing more than a pacifier to make the average
American ignoramus citizen feel good about something while he is being
robbed of his property, freedom, and ability to trade freely by those
who impose upon him both a fiat currency, and purchased political class,
to keep him under their thumbs.

Then again, I'm just an old, cynical SOB ...


Yes. Yes, you are. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:51:14 -0600, Swingman wrote:



No, you are correct. Many parts of the country have other illegals,
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

And Carlos Osario, the Columbian national in the sawstop suit in MA?

I see, with my own eyes, more and more example on "This Old House" every
year, even though I'm sure, and it is reasonable to assume, that at
least some effort is made to insure that you don't.

I know plenty of builders in the area. Most have local employees,
English speaking natives of the area. I'm sure some others exist, but
they are a minority here.

Four years ago we rebuilt our factory. Of the 100 or so workmen that
came and went, I don't recall of any that were not. Evidently, we
travel in different circles.

On 12/4/2011 3:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:51:14 -0600, wrote:

No, you are correct. Many parts of the country have other illegals,
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

And Carlos Osario, the Columbian national in the sawstop suit in MA?

I see, with my own eyes, more and more example on "This Old House" every
year, even though I'm sure, and it is reasonable to assume, that at
least some effort is made to insure that you don't.

I know plenty of builders in the area. Most have local employees,
English speaking natives of the area. I'm sure some others exist, but
they are a minority here.

Four years ago we rebuilt our factory. Of the 100 or so workmen that
came and went, I don't recall of any that were not. Evidently, we
travel in different circles.


Yep, we do ... and mine is called the "Construction Industry", which was
the subject of the conversation.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:




Too damn bad that:

1. The housing market has turned to **** thanks to your government's
intervention.

True, but now is the time to get ready for when it returns.




2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Warm, fuzzy, feel good propaganda? You make the call.

I'm not se what you mean about the taxes. In this area, most of the
tradesmen are US taxpaying citizens. Many are not working as often as
they should because building is slow, but the ones that are, pay
taxes, buy goods and services. Yes, they do buy flat screen TV's and
send that money outside, but they buy American pickup trucks too.
================================================== ================

Around here, the majority of "carpenters" are Mexican illegals with a few
Americans thrown in to keep an eye on them.

On 12/4/11 7:06 PM, CW wrote:
Around here, the majority of "carpenters" are Mexican illegals with a
few Americans thrown in to keep an eye on them.

Nashville recently replaced its perfectly acceptable convention center
with a new convention center. One of the reasons used to con taxpayers
into paying for it was all the jobs it would create.

It was discovered that the General Contractor was paying off an INS
informant when, on a day of a planned surprise inspection by the INS,
80% of the workers just happened to call in sick. One worker on site
that day called a local radio program and expressed that it was the only
day he could do his job without an interpreter.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Dave" wrote in message ...

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. I live in Washington. We're infested to.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:45:25 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:34:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
but the building trades are not so bad in the northeast yet. If you
are in manufacturing and use labor from a temp service, English is a
rare language. Assorted Orientals and central America is represented.

Well admittedly, my experience in the building trades is limited. I
will however, defer to your opinion in the form of having watched
entire departments disappear (including one I worked in) when I was
employed at IBM. Invariably, those departmentswere farmed out
overseas. First it was Ireland, then India, then I stopped paying
attention out of disgust.

....and *horrors* Germany, France, and Japan! I wonder just that 'I' stands
for, anyway.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:03:44 -0500, "
...and *horrors* Germany, France, and Japan! I wonder just that 'I' stands
for, anyway.

I honestly can't remember any support jobs being farmed out to those
countries. Think the price of admission was too high. The department
I worked in handled the entire US support for ThinkPad laptops.
Definitely a very demanding customer base. This was in 1997.

Being a Canadian, I can remember getting several almost derogatory
comments from US customers about my "New York" accent. I wonder what
kind of comments were passed out when support went first to Ireland,
and then horrors, India. I would have liked to sit in on a few of
those calls.

That depends, I am one of the very few Americans in my division.
Being in IT I am a rare oddity.
I just spoke with someone today who recently retired. He said he tried
fighting management who wanted to have more that 60% outsourcing by next
years end. He put together a report showing that it actually cost more,
but management buried it. So it doesn't get better up north here. Just
different foreigners.

On 12/4/2011 1:31 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these house do
not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when doing so, and
much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

wrote:

That depends, I am one of the very few Americans in my division.
Being in IT I am a rare oddity.
I just spoke with someone today who recently retired. He said he tried
fighting management who wanted to have more that 60% outsourcing by next
years end. He put together a report showing that it actually cost more,
but management buried it. So it doesn't get better up north here. Just
different foreigners.

Guess their dream came true. It truly is a Global Economy... Ugh!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:32:50 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:03:44 -0500, "
...and *horrors* Germany, France, and Japan! I wonder just that 'I' stands
for, anyway.

I honestly can't remember any support jobs being farmed out to those
countries. Think the price of admission was too high.

Support? I was talking about *design* jobs. Thousands of them.

The department
I worked in handled the entire US support for ThinkPad laptops.
Definitely a very demanding customer base. This was in 1997.

Interestingly, ThinkPad service and support is in Atlanta, even though Lenovo
bought the line seven or eight years ago. They still use the IBM call center.

Being a Canadian, I can remember getting several almost derogatory
comments from US customers about my "New York" accent. I wonder what
kind of comments were passed out when support went first to Ireland,
and then horrors, India. I would have liked to sit in on a few of
those calls.

I always got Southern accents (Atlanta). I just replaced my wife's ThinkPad
and it certainly wasn't a Bangalore accent. ;-)

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 23:27:59 -0500, "
I always got Southern accents (Atlanta). I just replaced my wife's ThinkPad
and it certainly wasn't a Bangalore accent. ;-)

Entirely possible. My IBM experience was 1997-1999. After that
exposure, I considered employment where among other things, out of the
country outsourcing was unlikely. That was one reason why I went into
technical writing. Unlikely I'd ever get outsourced. Language work is
one of the few bastions of protection that rarely go out of country or
province for that matter.

"Dave" wrote:
That was one reason why I went into
technical writing.
-------------------------------
Used to tell the the tech writers to take their finished piece home
and have some non tech person read it.

If they understood it, they were done.

If they didn't, back to the drawing board.

Lew

On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 22:17:14 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
-------------------------------
Used to tell the the tech writers to take their finished piece home
and have some non tech person read it.

Good advise. The biggest problem I had tech writing was butting heads
with the tech professionals. A sizeable portion of them couldn't
understand why it was so important that their writing had to be
perfect when writing for non tech people. They just couldn't (or
wouldn't) realize that not having good English writing skills caused
them to be taken less seriously. The ones that did realize it were
usually the ones that hired me. Hell, immigrant or not, they were all
smarter than me, there just happened to be one thing I could do better
than them.

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these
house do not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when
doing so, and much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

I think they're everywhere.

Aside:
While thinking of a border fence to secure everything, there is one problem
I haven't heard addressed: Two-thirds of the border, over 1,200 miles, is a
freakin' RIVER (the Rio Grande). Do you put the fence in the middle of the
river, or what?

"No, dummy, you put it on the U.S. side of the river," some would say.

Well, aside from a swatch of the river adjacent to Big Bend National Park,
the rest of the land adjoining the river is private property. Ranchers
depend on access to the water for their cattle and crops.

I don't believe our betters in Washington even want to think about it.

Doug Winterburn wrote the following:
http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821




Thanks. I reposted this and Nova's PDF link reply to
alt.building.construction

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 12/05/2011 07:08 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these
house do not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when
doing so, and much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

I think they're everywhere.

Aside:
While thinking of a border fence to secure everything, there is one problem
I haven't heard addressed: Two-thirds of the border, over 1,200 miles, is a
freakin' RIVER (the Rio Grande). Do you put the fence in the middle of the
river, or what?

"No, dummy, you put it on the U.S. side of the river," some would say.

Well, aside from a swatch of the river adjacent to Big Bend National Park,
the rest of the land adjoining the river is private property. Ranchers
depend on access to the water for their cattle and crops.

I don't believe our betters in Washington even want to think about it.



sharks?

piranhas?

They have plenty of those in D. C.


--
"A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to
blame somebody else." -John Burroughs

On 12/5/2011 9:08 AM, HeyBub wrote:

While thinking of a border fence to secure everything, there is one problem
I haven't heard addressed: Two-thirds of the border, over 1,200 miles, is a
freakin' RIVER (the Rio Grande). Do you put the fence in the middle of the
river, or what?

"No, dummy, you put it on the U.S. side of the river," some would say.

Well, aside from a swatch of the river adjacent to Big Bend National Park,
the rest of the land adjoining the river is private property. Ranchers
depend on access to the water for their cattle and crops.

Deputize the ranchers to enforce the law?

HeyBub wrote:

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, Swingman wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these
house do not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when
doing so, and much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

I think they're everywhere.

Aside:
While thinking of a border fence to secure everything, there is one
problem I haven't heard addressed: Two-thirds of the border, over 1,200
miles, is a freakin' RIVER (the Rio Grande). Do you put the fence in the
middle of the river, or what?

"No, dummy, you put it on the U.S. side of the river," some would say.

Well, aside from a swatch of the river adjacent to Big Bend National Park,
the rest of the land adjoining the river is private property. Ranchers
depend on access to the water for their cattle and crops.

I don't believe our betters in Washington even want to think about it.
"Our betters?" Hmmm I have to take umbrage with that statement.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 00:26:57 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 23:27:59 -0500, "
I always got Southern accents (Atlanta). I just replaced my wife's ThinkPad
and it certainly wasn't a Bangalore accent. ;-)

Entirely possible. My IBM experience was 1997-1999.

I bought my first (personal) ThinkPad in '05. Support was in Atlanta then. I
dealt with them, through IBM, in your timeframe, also. May have been
corporate customers only, though.

After that
exposure, I considered employment where among other things, out of the
country outsourcing was unlikely. That was one reason why I went into
technical writing. Unlikely I'd ever get outsourced. Language work is
one of the few bastions of protection that rarely go out of country or
province for that matter.

I'm still in doing design stuff, but (was) retired from IBM five years ago.
32+ years in IBM and I've just started my third job, in three industries, in
four years. ;-)

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:17:28 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On 12/05/2011 07:08 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 10:59:16 -0600, wrote:
2. The majority of the people whose labor actually builds these
house do not directly pay taxes on the wages they are paid when
doing so, and much of that money goes immediately out of the country.

Isn't it possible that most of the foreign labour you refer to is as a
result of Texas' proximity to Mexico? Maybe the further north one
heads in the US, that foreign labour decreases dramatically? Am I
wrong for thinking that?

I think they're everywhere.

Aside:
While thinking of a border fence to secure everything, there is one problem
I haven't heard addressed: Two-thirds of the border, over 1,200 miles, is a
freakin' RIVER (the Rio Grande). Do you put the fence in the middle of the
river, or what?

"No, dummy, you put it on the U.S. side of the river," some would say.

Well, aside from a swatch of the river adjacent to Big Bend National Park,
the rest of the land adjoining the river is private property. Ranchers
depend on access to the water for their cattle and crops.

I don't believe our betters in Washington even want to think about it.



sharks?

piranhas?

They have plenty of those in D. C.

Mines. Much cheaper than fences and works on land and in the water.