I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.

On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:23:09 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.


As far as I know you need the safety ground wire to be continuous throughout
your wiring, from the fuse box to each outlet. The ground wire in each outlet
box connects both to the outlet and to the box itself.

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

Anyway, if you don't get it inspected by an electrician you might get in legal
trouble from the landlord if there's a problem, even in the future after you
leave!

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:27:00 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:23:09 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.


As far as I know you need the safety ground wire to be continuous throughout
your wiring, from the fuse box to each outlet. The ground wire in each outlet
box connects both to the outlet and to the box itself.

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

Anyway, if you don't get it inspected by an electrician you might get in legal
trouble from the landlord if there's a problem, even in the future after you
leave!
Easy way around the latter. Cut the wire off when you leave.

On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, wrote:

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

It doesn't have to be copper.

The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:25:51 -0400, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, wrote:

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

It doesn't have to be copper.

The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws. In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.

In some types of installations, such as computer systems or recording studios,
dedicated ground wires are ran to eliminate electrical noise. The equipment
chassis ground is connected to the safety ground wire but not the armor.
Sometimes these outlets are colored orange.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:19:04 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:25:51 -0400, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, wrote:

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

It doesn't have to be copper.

The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws. In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.


Poor workmanship is poor workmanship - whether metalic sheathed cable
or Romex. ANd to meet code, the RIGHT box connectors are required. In
Canad, the galvanized BX (obsolete now) does NOT meet code. And the
AntiShort is absolutely necessary.
In some types of installations, such as computer systems or recording studios,
dedicated ground wires are ran to eliminate electrical noise. The equipment
chassis ground is connected to the safety ground wire but not the armor.
Sometimes these outlets are colored orange.
Virtually ALL isolated ground receptacles are orange - and they all
have a green triangle on them. The "U" ground is not connected to the
mounting bracket (hense the "isolated ground" - and the bare safety
ground connects to the box - which also grounds the cover plate if it
is metal - while the ground terminal (green wire by code - sometimes
red wire of NMD3 cable, taped green at both ends) runs DIRECTLY back
to the ground buss on the panel. This pretty well limits a "isolated
ground" circuit to ONE duplex receptacle - or possibly 2 isolated
ground reeptacles in one box.

On 9/8/2011 9:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:25:51 -0400, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, wrote:

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

It doesn't have to be copper.

The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws.

Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.

In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.

Probably not before tripping the breaker...

"Look at me" syndrome or just losing it?
Read what he stated again and stop trying to disagree regardless of what
people post.

Is this another case where the hot wire can feed current into a box and it
doesn't return to the source "vapour currents" but, it can still trip the
breaker?

Perhaps this is another one of your imaginary current circuits, like the
bathroom fan circuit, where the current fills up the device before it
continues to the rest of the circuit?


---------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable
where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws.

Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.

In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.

Probably not before tripping the breaker...

Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor *was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws.

Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.

* In that case a short to ground could blow out
* the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.

Probably not before tripping the breaker...

after all, consider the mayhem that can be caused by accidentally
pinching, squeezing, cutting or puncturing romex - bx is called
armored for a reason.

shelly

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:35:34 -0400, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 9/8/2011 9:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:25:51 -0400, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, wrote:

I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!

It doesn't have to be copper.

The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws.

Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.

My point was that people don't care if they damage the armor because they think
it serves no electrical purpose. They wouldn't react the same to seeing the
wires hanging out! And it's easier to disconnect the armor than the ground wire.

In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.

Probably not before tripping the breaker...

Yup, and they would then flip the breaker back on, and with the armor blown out,
would energize the chassis with 120v.

On Sep 7, 11:23*am, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.

BW

Armor is armor. Nothing else. The ground must be defined and in this
case it is the bare or green wire with in the armor cable.

Conduit is nice and probably required since you indicate that the
wiring will not be exposed. Exposed romex or the like will not cut it
now.

The additional wires indicate that there is no ground wire and it will
have to be added.

A subpanel with the required breakers should have been added. Also a
ground rod should be provided for additional protection. Especially if
the barn is constructed of combustible material.

Armor cable, conduit and boxes have no listed electrical
characteristics and therefore should not be part of any required
ground protection.

Bob AZ

On 9/7/2011 9:10 PM, Bob AZ wrote:

Armor is armor. Nothing else. The ground must be defined and in this
case it is the bare or green wire with in the armor cable.

That is incorrect. The armor of type AC armored cable is explicitly
recognized by the NEC as an acceptable equipment grounding conductor.

Conduit is nice and probably required since you indicate that the
wiring will not be exposed. Exposed romex or the like will not cut it
now.

??? Why would conduit be required if the wiring will be concealed?
[...]

Armor cable, conduit and boxes have no listed electrical
characteristics and therefore should not be part of any required
ground protection.

Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

In Canada armored cable is not considered a ground conductor. A continuous
ground conductor must be run.

E.M.T. does not suffice a s a ground conductor and a separate grounding
conductor must be run. The little screws that hold EMT together can have
physical strain on them, separate and are not good grounding systems and not
to Canadian safety code.
EMT is not physical protection for wiring and only a method running wires.
It takes conduit (rigid) to offer physical protection.

I find this hard to believe the NEC would differ that much on armored cable.
Who would use a grounding conductor that is made out of who knows what crap
metal and has an inductive coil made out of it? Sounds like somebody has
their wires crossed.


-------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

Wonder why they put grounding conductors in armored cables. I doubt people
would pay for the extra conductor if they could use the armor for a ground
in either country.

Doug misinforms again.

In Canada
--------------
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/14-2...ble-30m/908343

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/14-3...ble-20m/908348


In USA
---------
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/... 4&R=100143824

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/... 9&R=100142069



-----------------
"Josepi" wrote in message ...
In Canada armored cable is not considered a ground conductor. A continuous
ground conductor must be run.

E.M.T. does not suffice a s a ground conductor and a separate grounding
conductor must be run. The little screws that hold EMT together can have
physical strain on them, separate and are not good grounding systems and not
to Canadian safety code.
EMT is not physical protection for wiring and only a method running wires.
It takes conduit (rigid) to offer physical protection.

I find this hard to believe the NEC would differ that much on armored cable.
Who would use a grounding conductor that is made out of who knows what crap
metal and has an inductive coil made out of it? Sounds like somebody has
their wires crossed.


-------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

I find this hard to believe the NEC would differ that much on armored cable.
Who would use a grounding conductor that is made out of who knows what crap
metal and has an inductive coil made out of it? Sounds like somebody has
their wires crossed.



again, see my earlier post - ever hear of 12-2? (there is a 12-3 used
for 220 lines)

shelly

On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 23:19:56 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:

In Canada armored cable is not considered a ground conductor. A continuous
ground conductor must be run.

E.M.T. does not suffice a s a ground conductor and a separate grounding
conductor must be run. The little screws that hold EMT together can have
physical strain on them, separate and are not good grounding systems and not
to Canadian safety code.
EMT is not physical protection for wiring and only a method running wires.
It takes conduit (rigid) to offer physical protection.


Actually EMT IS adequate protection under Canadian code for exposed
wiring in a lot of areas. (like basement walls and residential
garages)
I find this hard to believe the NEC would differ that much on armored cable.
Who would use a grounding conductor that is made out of who knows what crap
metal and has an inductive coil made out of it? Sounds like somebody has
their wires crossed.


Not that many years ago "BX" armoured cable was accepted as a safety
ground in Canada too - and the current "MC" cable, with aluminum
shield and a separate bonding ribbon also passes.
-------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

Yeah, I remember running into all kinds of old crap back in "the old days".
The code violations were brutal and I wonder how some of us survived...LOL

BX cable should have had a grounding strip /ribbon run inside the steel
armour. Steel (in a helical coil) is not considered a good grounding
conductor and if the ribbon existed it had to be used.

From the Ontario Hydro Electrical Safety Code - 19th Edition - 1983

Rule 10-510 Fixed Equipment
(2) The armour of those constructions of armoured cables incorporating a
grounding conductor shall not be considered as fulfilling the requirements
of a grounding conductor for the purposes of this Rule, and the grounding
conductor provided in these cables shall shall comply with Subrule (1)(b).
**(states the conductor shall be bare or green)

(3) The armour of flexible conduit and liquid-tight flexible metal conduit
shall not be considered as fulfilling the requirements of a grounding
conductor for the purposes of this rule, and a separate grounding conductor
shall be run within the conduit.



EMT was never considered mechanical protection but could always be used in
places where romex was Ok just strapped to a wall to keep it neat.


1983 rule. Sorry I was too lazy to find it in the new code book

Rule 12-1502 Use (EMT)
Electrical metallic tubing may be be used for exposed and concealed work
except that it shall not be used:
(a) Where it is subject to mechanical injury either during installation or
afterwards;
(b) in any hazardous location;
etc... corrosive, wet, concrete, earth contact, corrosive vapors...


--------------------
wrote in message ...
Not that many years ago "BX" armoured cable was accepted as a safety
ground in Canada too - and the current "MC" cable, with aluminum
shield and a separate bonding ribbon also passes.

Actually EMT IS adequate protection under Canadian code for exposed
wiring in a lot of areas. (like basement walls and residential
garages)



-----------------
On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 23:19:56 -0400, "Josepi"
wrote:
In Canada armored cable is not considered a ground conductor. A continuous
ground conductor must be run.

E.M.T. does not suffice a s a ground conductor and a separate grounding
conductor must be run. The little screws that hold EMT together can have
physical strain on them, separate and are not good grounding systems and not
to Canadian safety code.
EMT is not physical protection for wiring and only a method running wires.
It takes conduit (rigid) to offer physical protection.

I find this hard to believe the NEC would differ that much on armored cable.
Who would use a grounding conductor that is made out of who knows what crap
metal and has an inductive coil made out of it? Sounds like somebody has
their wires crossed.


-------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

Conduit is nice and probably required since you indicate that the
wiring will not be exposed. Exposed romex or the like will not cut it
now.

??? Why would conduit be required if the wiring will be concealed?
[...]

Armor cable, conduit and boxes have no listed electrical
characteristics and therefore should not be part of any required
ground protection.

Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

Doug

Typo on the "Not be exposed". Should read "wiring will not be
exposed".

I will have to reread the paragraph you mention. On a big electrical
job I kept up with 2 years ago this was an inspection item. No
conduits, flexible or not was acceptable as a ground conductor. Yes
the conduit was grounded and the boxes also but with a specified
ground conductor.

On 9/8/2011 1:50 AM, Bob AZ wrote:
Conduit is nice and probably required since you indicate that the
wiring will not be exposed. Exposed romex or the like will not cut it
now.

??? Why would conduit be required if the wiring will be concealed?
[...]

Armor cable, conduit and boxes have no listed electrical
characteristics and therefore should not be part of any required
ground protection.

Totally incorrect. In addition to cable armor, the NEC also recognizes
rigid and flexible metallic conduit or tubing as acceptable grounding
conductors.

Doug

Typo on the "Not be exposed". Should read "wiring will not be
exposed".

That *is* what it reads; that's why the statement makes no sense. Did
you mean it should read "wiring will be exposed"?

I will have to reread the paragraph you mention. On a big electrical
job I kept up with 2 years ago this was an inspection item. No
conduits, flexible or not was acceptable as a ground conductor. Yes
the conduit was grounded and the boxes also but with a specified
ground conductor.

Perhaps there's a local ordinance prohibiting it, or perhaps the
inspector doesn't understand the Code, or perhaps that was specified by
contract. But it's not prohibited by the NEC. The NEC doesn't permit a
total of more than 6 feet of flex in a ground-fault path, but there is
no such limitation on rigid or intermediate, or on EMT.

On Sep 7, 9:10*pm, Bob AZ wrote:
On Sep 7, 11:23*am, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:









I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.

BW

Armor is armor. Nothing else. The ground must be defined and in this
case it is the bare or green wire with in the armor cable.

Conduit is nice and probably required since you indicate that the
wiring will not be exposed. Exposed romex or the like will not cut it
now.

The additional wires indicate that there is no ground wire and it will
have to be added.

A subpanel with the required breakers should have been added. Also a
ground rod should be provided for additional protection. Especially if
the barn is constructed of combustible material.

Armor cable, conduit and boxes have no listed electrical
characteristics and therefore should not be part of any required
ground protection.

Bob *AZ

Armor is also used as the ground.... in NYC, where the code is
unbelievably strict, armored cable is ALL they let you use - no romex
at all. Using 2-12 armor is standard for a 20 amp breaker. Just make
sure that you use metal boxes (not the plastic crap) and make sure the
connections to the boxes are tight.

shelly

wrote:


Armor is also used as the ground.... in NYC, where the code is
unbelievably strict, armored cable is ALL they let you use - no romex
at all. Using 2-12 armor is standard for a 20 amp breaker. Just make
sure that you use metal boxes (not the plastic crap) and make sure the
connections to the boxes are tight.


Yes - but that is because it has a ground wire in it which is in constant
contact with the shielding. The ground wire is bent back over the shielding
at the point of the clamp and is secured by the clamp.

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:36:42 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:


Armor is also used as the ground.... in NYC, where the code is
unbelievably strict, armored cable is ALL they let you use - no romex
at all. Using 2-12 armor is standard for a 20 amp breaker. Just make
sure that you use metal boxes (not the plastic crap) and make sure the
connections to the boxes are tight.


Yes - but that is because it has a ground wire in it which is in constant
contact with the shielding. The ground wire is bent back over the shielding
at the point of the clamp and is secured by the clamp.
In NYC the code requires armoured cable to keep the rats from eating
the cables.

ROFL - Too funny but quite possibly true.
Adverse environment.

-------------------
wrote in message ...
In NYC the code requires armoured cable to keep the rats from eating
the cables.


---------------------
wrote:
Armor is also used as the ground.... in NYC, where the code is
unbelievably strict, armored cable is ALL they let you use - no romex
at all. Using 2-12 armor is standard for a 20 amp breaker. Just make
sure that you use metal boxes (not the plastic crap) and make sure the
connections to the boxes are tight.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 19:21:23 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:36:42 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:


Armor is also used as the ground.... in NYC, where the code is
unbelievably strict, armored cable is ALL they let you use - no romex
at all. Using 2-12 armor is standard for a 20 amp breaker. Just make
sure that you use metal boxes (not the plastic crap) and make sure the
connections to the boxes are tight.


Yes - but that is because it has a ground wire in it which is in constant
contact with the shielding. The ground wire is bent back over the shielding
at the point of the clamp and is secured by the clamp.
In NYC the code requires armoured cable to keep the rats from eating
the cables.

I had a code update class this year and the instructor told us just
that, and that's why it's refered to as BX as it was invented to
solve the rat problem in Bronx.

Mike M.

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home-...arage-2002.php

Although this is 2002 NEC it is pretty handy advice that covers a lot of
issues, and the links are useful also.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On Sep 7, 2:23*pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.

My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.

I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
question (finally).

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.

The conduit and metal boxes constitute the Mechanical Grounding. The
bare copper conductor (or green wire) constitutes the Electrical
Ground. So, all your conduit should be mechanically "bonded" one to
the other and all your devices should be connected to the Electrical
Ground at the source.

Note: You can never have enough electrical outlets.

For lighting, I use (switched - 4-wa, in my case) grounded outlets in/
on the ceiling to accept the plugs of those cheap fluorescent
"shoplights" I get at HD or Lowes ($8-10) as it makes changing our
ballasts/fixtures a snap (well, a de-hook/re-hook)

On 9/9/2011 11:58 AM, Hoosierpopi wrote:


The conduit and metal boxes constitute the Mechanical Grounding. The
bare copper conductor (or green wire) constitutes the Electrical
Ground.

That is incorrect.

The term "mechanical grounding" doesn't make any sense, and is not a
concept recognized by the NEC.

Moreover, the NEC makes no distinction between rigid metal conduit,
intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing (aka EMT or
thinwall), copper wire, or aluminum wire, in terms of their suitability
as equipment grounding conductors: all are equally acceptable.

I bet the NEC makes no distinction with glass and plastic for grounding
either. This doesn't make it OK as there are other rules that you don't seem
to be able to see with your HUHAS.

---------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
That is incorrect.

The term "mechanical grounding" doesn't make any sense, and is not a
concept recognized by the NEC.

Moreover, the NEC makes no distinction between rigid metal conduit,
intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing (aka EMT or
thinwall), copper wire, or aluminum wire, in terms of their suitability
as equipment grounding conductors: all are equally acceptable.


-------------------
On 9/9/2011 11:58 AM, Hoosierpopi wrote:
The conduit and metal boxes constitute the Mechanical Grounding. The
bare copper conductor (or green wire) constitutes the Electrical
Ground.

When Military stations went under OSHA, an OSHA man came to inspect
the largest man made structure in the world - a massive Radar building.

Many floors of special hardening e.g. the toilets were mounted on
springs and flex tubing... It could take a 75Megaton blast on the side.

This is something of a building. Anyway - he was looking around and
couldn't find anything - Mil spec everywhere. He walked by my Dads desk
and spotted a "Polly Pot" - A green plastic coffee pot. He stopped and
spied a 2 wire cord on the pot. Ah Ha ! - Violation at last. Dad
informed him that the plastic was non-conductive. He stood firm and so
Dad went into the shop, got a 3 prong plug and wound a green wire along
the two wire - and with a lug and sheet metal screw (SS) attached it to
the pot. Dad installed it - the man was pleased he found and had the
error corrected. - Dad kept it that way until he signed the site over
to NASA. Mechanical connection...

Martin

On 9/9/2011 10:11 PM, Josepi wrote:
I bet the NEC makes no distinction with glass and plastic for grounding
either. This doesn't make it OK as there are other rules that you don't
seem to be able to see with your HUHAS.

---------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
That is incorrect.

The term "mechanical grounding" doesn't make any sense, and is not a
concept recognized by the NEC.

Moreover, the NEC makes no distinction between rigid metal conduit,
intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing (aka EMT or
thinwall), copper wire, or aluminum wire, in terms of their suitability
as equipment grounding conductors: all are equally acceptable.


-------------------
On 9/9/2011 11:58 AM, Hoosierpopi wrote:
The conduit and metal boxes constitute the Mechanical Grounding. The
bare copper conductor (or green wire) constitutes the Electrical
Ground.

Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?

BW
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.

Didn't realize I would start such a thread. I hired an electrician. He
tied the 110 armor cable ground to the same ground used for the 220
circuit (duh). He put in a few new 4 gang boxes and two switched
outlets. I could have done the switched outlets but I would have run
wire back and forth a few times and he did it in a single 3 conductor
run, as it should be done. $150 well spent.