I've been interested in making a workbench ever since Lew introduced me
to that octopus (inside joke).

It was revealed to me in my reading (here and elsewhere) that if I tote
home some SYP from Home Depot and create M & T joints from it, then my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

I was originally planning to use "keyed" M&T joints, now I'm thinking
"wedged" M&T joints may help deal with this detail.

Comments welcome.

Hey, it's almost spring!!

Bill

my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

Bill


Unless you are starting with wet lumber (like just cut from the tree)
or your tenons are huge (like a foot or two across) you shouldn't have
any problem with wood movement and no need to account for swelling or
shrinkage. Movement is on the order of a few percent and isn't
typically accounted for within the context of a single joint. If a 3"
x 1" wide tenon swelled in a tight mortise it wouldn't change enough
to hurt anything.

Use any type of M&T joint that you desire.

Also, to avoid shrinkage just stay out of the pool.

Finally, can you really get SYP at Home Depot? They only have crapola
Ponderosa and maybe ESLP if you really want to pay, but nothing like
real Pine.

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

Bill


Unless you are starting with wet lumber (like just cut from the tree)
or your tenons are huge (like a foot or two across) you shouldn't have
any problem with wood movement and no need to account for swelling or
shrinkage. Movement is on the order of a few percent and isn't
typically accounted for within the context of a single joint. If a 3"
x 1" wide tenon swelled in a tight mortise it wouldn't change enough
to hurt anything.

Use any type of M&T joint that you desire.

Finally, can you really get SYP at Home Depot? They only have crapola
Ponderosa and maybe ESLP if you really want to pay, but nothing like
real Pine.

Thank you. Here is a link to rhw SYP I saw at HomeDepot:

http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...atalogId=10053

Bill

In article , says...

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

Bill


Unless you are starting with wet lumber (like just cut from the tree)
or your tenons are huge (like a foot or two across) you shouldn't have
any problem with wood movement and no need to account for swelling or
shrinkage. Movement is on the order of a few percent and isn't
typically accounted for within the context of a single joint. If a 3"
x 1" wide tenon swelled in a tight mortise it wouldn't change enough
to hurt anything.

Use any type of M&T joint that you desire.

Finally, can you really get SYP at Home Depot? They only have crapola
Ponderosa and maybe ESLP if you really want to pay, but nothing like
real Pine.

Thank you. Here is a link to rhw SYP I saw at HomeDepot:

http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...atalogId=10053


Remember that what HD stocks is regional--you'll get different species
in the south than in the north and in the east than in the west.

On 3/8/2011 11:25 PM, Bill wrote:

It was revealed to me in my reading (here and elsewhere) that if I tote
home some SYP from Home Depot and create M & T joints from it, then my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.


Just be sure to get KD "Kiln Dried" stock.

#2 SYP KD is generally between 14% - 19%. Ideally you want it closer to
(or under if possible) 12% for your task, so use a moisture meter to
chose your stock (MC may vary wildly within the same stack). Acclimate
it in your shop for a few weeks, or longer the higher the MC.

Basically, start out with as low a MC as you can, then once it reaches
EMC for your environment and you don't have any swings greater than 2%
you shouldn't have any problems with whatever joinery you use.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 03:01:11 -0500, Bill wrote:

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

Bill


Unless you are starting with wet lumber (like just cut from the tree)
or your tenons are huge (like a foot or two across) you shouldn't have
any problem with wood movement and no need to account for swelling or
shrinkage. Movement is on the order of a few percent and isn't
typically accounted for within the context of a single joint. If a 3"
x 1" wide tenon swelled in a tight mortise it wouldn't change enough
to hurt anything.

Use any type of M&T joint that you desire.

Finally, can you really get SYP at Home Depot? They only have crapola
Ponderosa and maybe ESLP if you really want to pay, but nothing like
real Pine.

Thank you. Here is a link to rhw SYP I saw at HomeDepot:

http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Comp...atalogId=10053

I checked that out. Nice price, looks like lousy lumber by the KDHT
designation.

http://www.nelma.org/PressRelease-47.html
KD or KD-HT? What's The Difference?

When choosing whether to stamp your product HT or KD-HT its important
to remember the difference between the two stamps .

Heat treated lumber may be marked as KD-HT or HT. If marked KD-HT,
the lumber is being guaranteed as 19% or less moisture content and
that it has been heat treated to at least 56 degrees C (minimum of 133
degrees F) for at least 30 minutes at the lumber core. A mark of HT
signifies that the lumber has been heat treated to at least 56 degrees
C for at least 30 minutes at the lumber core, without moisture content
designation.
--

"Warmed for half an hour" is a kiln drying designation? WTF,O? sigh

--
Life is full of obstacle illusions.
-- Grant Frazier

In article , Bill wrote:

I've been interested in making a workbench ever since Lew introduced me
to that octopus (inside joke).

It was revealed to me in my reading (here and elsewhere) that if I tote
home some SYP from Home Depot and create M & T joints from it, then my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.

Indeed you will, if you cut the joints immediately. On the other hand, if you
stack and sticker the wood in your shop so that air can circulate around it,
leave it alone for two weeks, and *then* cut the joints, you should be fine.

I was originally planning to use "keyed" M&T joints, now I'm thinking
"wedged" M&T joints may help deal with this detail.

Can't hurt, but it's probably unnecessary work. Start with the driest wood you
can find, let it acclimate to the environment it's going to "live" in before
you cut any joinery, and I doubt you'll have any problems.

On 3/9/2011 6:06 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 3/8/2011 11:25 PM, Bill wrote:

It was revealed to me in my reading (here and elsewhere) that if I tote
home some SYP from Home Depot and create M & T joints from it, then my
tenons may be in for significant shrinking.


Just be sure to get KD "Kiln Dried" stock.

#2 SYP KD is generally between 14% - 19%. Ideally you want it closer to
(or under if possible) 12% for your task, so use a moisture meter to
chose your stock (MC may vary wildly within the same stack). Acclimate
it in your shop for a few weeks, or longer the higher the MC.

Basically, start out with as low a MC as you can, then once it reaches
EMC for your environment and you don't have any swings greater than 2%
you shouldn't have any problems with whatever joinery you use.

And, to speed up the process and get more uniform results, rough out the
pieces from the full-size stock initially leaving oversize for final
dimensioning and the joinery. If nothing else, at least cut to
approximate length(s) needed.

If planing, after flatten the first side, take equivalent amounts from
both faces.

Above in conjunction w/ Swing's advice and assuming the material really
has been properly KD'd and stored under cover will be pretty quick to
stabilize.

--