I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Lots of issues.

Countertop typically means kitchen. Kitchen usually means moisture.
Moisture means wood movement. Movement means cupping at least. So very
likely the counter top would buckle up or down. Also likely break the
edge glued joints eventually. Also need to think abput what to do if
you have a corner, how do you let the counter top expand properly
withouth breaking itself apart. A 30 inch wide maple panel will change
with by 0.42 inches with a 4% change in moisture, about the average
range of change over a year in a house in general, a wet counter top
likely a greater percentage.

Flat panels as countertops are just way too much trouble.

Now you mention using particle board to keep it flat. You cannot glue
a 30" wide panel to ply or particle which does not expand like solid
wood. So I guess you could do screws through slots but you will come
to find that mechanical fastners are not very well matched against the
hydraulic pressures of mother nature.

On 1/26/2011 1:36 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Lots of issues.

Countertop typically means kitchen. Kitchen usually means moisture.
Moisture means wood movement. Movement means cupping at least.

Plenty of kitchens have butcher block counter tops made out of real
maple. Movement doesn't always mean cupping, for example, quarter sawn
tends to not cup, or move much across the grain.

A 30 inch wide maple panel will change
with by 0.42 inches with a 4% change in moisture, about the average
range of change over a year in a house in general, a wet counter top
likely a greater percentage.

That means a solid maple wood 15' floor will expand 2.5 inches across
the grain. I think that would be unusual, but your point is generally
accurate.

Flat panels as countertops are just way too much trouble.

Perhaps, but the question is could a counter top be constructed out of
3/4 maple and the answer is of course. Most of the expansion will be
across the grain, and very little of that if quarter sawn wood is used.
For a counter top, that should not be much of an issue since at least
one end is free to move all it wants.

Now you mention using particle board to keep it flat. You cannot glue
a 30" wide panel to ply or particle which does not expand like solid
wood. So I guess you could do screws through slots but you will come
to find that mechanical fastners are not very well matched against the
hydraulic pressures of mother nature.

No reason to attach the top to particle board. Attaching the top to the
cabinet sides underneath or to a torsion box might help.
There are millions of flat 30" tops made of solid wood that don't bow,
crack or warp. Basic construction techniques are needed but are
secondary to the choice of wood. By choice of wood I mean how the tree
grew, how it was cut, what the grain is like, how it was dried, how it
is finished and so on. If the wood is going to bow, cup or warp, not
much can be done about it regardless of how thick or thin the wood is.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

Plenty of kitchens have butcher block counter tops made out of real
maple. *Movement doesn't always mean cupping, for example, quarter sawn
tends to not cup, or move much across the grain.


Yes but this yahoo wants to build it not as butcher block but as flat
panels.

On 1/31/2011 12:53 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Plenty of kitchens have butcher block counter tops made out of real
maple. Movement doesn't always mean cupping, for example, quarter sawn
tends to not cup, or move much across the grain.

Yes but this yahoo wants to build it not as butcher block but as flat
panels.

I think this is where Mike is detecting some exaggerated perceptions.
Yes, solid wood moves, cups, warps and all that, yet and still, plenty
of tops are made out of flat boards, and for most of history, that was
all there was. The main thing is choosing the correct grain patterns and
assembly techniques. Someone posted a link to a Roy Underwood Side table:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2908.html

and if you watched it, you'll see the top is 1" thick 32" wide flat
boards glued up with breadboard ends. Counter tops are generally 24"
wide or less, and have even more support under them than his side table.

It takes a lot of knowledge to pick out the right wood as well as some
luck to avoid problems, but most woodworkers have successfully glued up
wide panels. Naturally problems often arise, thus un-natural solutions
have been developed to solve, but still not uncommon to see wide, solid
wood tops with no problems.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

assembly techniques. *Someone posted a link to a Roy Underwood Side table:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2908.html

and if you watched it, you'll see the top is 1" thick 32" wide flat

Yes but...

Mr. Mike said in his post #20 that he "glued, screwed and nailed" and
has never seen a problem. Mr. Roy in the first 4 minutes of the
referenced video shows that you need to account for wood movement. So
you can't just glue everything with no problem. So Mike is totally
wrong and ignorant to the fact that you MUST account for wood movement
and this "notion" has NOT "taken on a set of legs of its own." but
rather is a known fact that any intelligent woodworker accounts for in
his design, even back in the days that Mr. Roy is exploring. They very
concept of a breadboard end and the traditional attachment method
proves the point.

In article
,
mkr5000 wrote:

I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Not durable. There's a reason "butcher block" is edge or (more properly,
but rarely seen) end grain. Flatways, the wood is more prone to dent -
also, wide flat boards in countertop (wet, abusive) use are prone to
warp.

To make a countertop from 1" material, Cut your 1" boards into 2"
strips and glue up 30 or so strips with the 1" side up - or just buy a
butcherblock top (costs less than buying the stock to make one, most of
the time, if you shop well.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"mkr5000" wrote in message
...
I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

I think it would deform quickly from alternate cycles of moisture/drying,
absorption of oils, natural warpage, temperatures, etc.

Steve

mkr5000 wrote:

I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Reinforce maple with particle board?!?!
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

mkr5000 wrote:
I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

If you're merely after the butcher-block "look," you might try maple (etc.)
manufactured laminate flooring.

You'll need a router to get the edges to match and some glue.

I did that with a bunch of left-over el cheapo material over a year ago. It
looks nice and works well. I figured if the stuff was designed to withstand
dirt, mud, abrasion, water, and golf shoes, it would cover the funky-looking
60's Formica quite well.

It did.

On Jan 26, 1:14*pm, mkr5000 wrote:
I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

Maple moves, flakeboard doesn't (assuming it doesn't
rot). Better to join the boards with splines, biscuits,
dowels, whatever you have handy. Compensate
for the boards' tendency to shrink more at the ends
by cutting the joints ever so slightly concave, or
"sprung."

*Compensate
for the boards' tendency to shrink more at the ends
by cutting the joints ever so slightly concave, or
"sprung."

Hmmmm first time I have heard a plausible reason for the sprung joint
(greater shrinkage at the ends). Till now I always thought it was such
crap. Adding tension across the entire joint just never made sense.
Even so, I am still not convinced that having tension across the whole
joint forever, is better than letting glue try to hold the end of a
joint together when it dries out.

On 1/26/2011 3:37 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Compensate
for the boards' tendency to shrink more at the ends
by cutting the joints ever so slightly concave, or
"sprung."

Hmmmm first time I have heard a plausible reason for the sprung joint
(greater shrinkage at the ends). Till now I always thought it was such
crap. Adding tension across the entire joint just never made sense.
Even so, I am still not convinced that having tension across the whole
joint forever, is better than letting glue try to hold the end of a
joint together when it dries out.

With today's modern glues the joint probably *would* hold together, but it
wouldn't surprise me if the wood split as some other location while it was
drying out.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Well of course I would seal the surface well and use biscuits
liberally on the edges. As for the particle board, it wouldn't be seen
but be under the maple to give it added strength and dimension, just
like a standard laminate top. Plus, I could screw into the maple from
underneath for added strength and stability. ?

I like the idea of using flooring, may look into that or at least try
a sample section.

On Jan 26, 2:11*pm, mkr5000 wrote:
Well of course I would seal the surface well and use biscuits
liberally on the edges. As for the particle board, it wouldn't be seen
but be under the maple to give it added strength and dimension, just
like a standard laminate top. Plus, I could screw into the maple from
underneath for added strength and stability. *?

I like the idea of using flooring, may look into that or at least try
a sample section.

I guess you won't listen to the many reasonable reasons why this isn't
done. You did ask "Why not?" and it was clearly explained. Good luck.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:11:30 -0800 (PST), mkr5000
wrote:

Well of course I would seal the surface well [...snip...]

Won't matter. Humidity changes will be slowed a bit but not stopped.

As for the particle board, it wouldn't be seen
but be under the maple to give it added strength and dimension, just
like a standard laminate top. Plus, I could screw into the maple from
underneath for added strength and stability. ?


Yes but the maple will expand and contract with changing humidity and
the particle board underneath won't. The force involved is very large.
The maple will tear the screws out of position. If glued to the
particle board, the maple will break the glue bond.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:14:11 -0800 (PST), mkr5000 wrote:

I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.


There's no doubt wood movement can cause a lot of problems,
just look at the ruckus it stirred up in here.

basilisk

On Jan 31, 3:13*pm, basilisk wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:14:11 -0800 (PST), mkr5000 wrote:
I see a lot of "butcher block" countertops, no doubt made of edge
glued 2 x 2 's ? -- but why can't you make a top from 1 by material as
well?

Like perhaps edge glued 1 x 8 maple, 4 boards across for the depth. 28
to 30" or so.

I suppose that making a 1 1/2" maple edge and then reinforcing the
bottom with 3/4" particle board would be the way to go -- just like
the old fashioned laminate tops.

Why not?

I haven't seen any in doing a google search -- just the butcher block
style.

There's no doubt wood movement can cause a lot of problems,
just look at the ruckus it stirred up in here.

basilisk

over in 115